Something Very Annoying Happened Tonight

[Christie Photo]

... while I am personally ignorant of seeing first hand what "auto" can do for me ... I think that that "auto" will severely limit one's creative options.

Of course it does.

But remember.... some of here are making pictures. Others are taking pictures, and that's what auto is for.

I'm not asserting there's no value to that. You just can't compare the two.

-Pete

[TPF Sponsor]

[stsinner]

I started a new thread to unhijack this one...

[LokiZ]

It is sounding to me like this post is contradicting what we all would hopefully know. What many of you are plainly saying is that without manual mode there is no hope for great pictures even good pictures is a stretch for the cameras auto mode.

This seems rather comical to me when I recollect the many many many posts that I have seen. Those whom are more skilled then me, and those who have better hardware then me, boast on and on the fact that it is not the camera that takes the good picture but rather the person behind the camera.

Don't get me wrong. Generally I follow that same belief that it's the operator not what is operated that is the driving force behind what you all are calling good photographs. It's just that the way you are all carrying on in this post... one has to question whether you truly believe what many of you preach concerning that matter.

Concerning the actual topic of this post I believe what was done was the correct response. Lay low on the confrontation to prove your sincerity lays with your love of photography not your love of being right about photography knowledge. If you are concerned about the man spending money on a camera he will out grow far to soon then take him aside in private and softly update him. Otherwise leave it alone.

Some people say that photoshop is cheating as opposed to lessor more feature lacking apps. Or that using filters in photoshop rather then just the defualt tools is some how cheating. Features are features. Just because you choose or choose not to use a feature rarely guarantees any level of good, great, or the best. Such is the manual feature. It is added power power some can handle and power some never will. But just like with lighting... we work with what we have, work with what we strive to master.

[AlexColeman]

I spend my weekends destroying the Best buy morons, as a 14yr old, it is a little funny.

[Joves]

The way I look at it is you are always going to run in to the know it alls in life. The only ones I have ever got nasty with are the ones I have trained in the work I do. I used to ask then why the hell am I training you and toss them the remote box. It is at this point they quit knowing everything and listen. To me when I run across these people I pretty much ignore them. I will only correct what they say when Im asked by the person they are expounding their wealth of misinformation on.
As far as people wanting to shoot in auto, it makes no diffrence to me. It is their equipment and their shots so, why should I care if they are happy doing it. Now if they ask me something about how I got a shot or how to do something with the camera, I will galdly help as best as I can.

[DRoberts]

Why has every one turned this into a "witch hunt" towards this girl? Even statements like "set her up".
She was asked questions and gave her honest opinions, you may disagree, but the ultimate responsibility of your friend is to research and consider more than one source. I'm sure if you gave her your honest opinions on the same questions you would find people who would not agree with you either.
Does that make you as pathetic as you are making her out to be?
I would stay out of it unless I was specificaly asked. And then I would give my opinion on what I know, and refer him to some resources that explain what he needs to know.

[chrisburke]

wow, i hadn't looked at this thread since the first day i wrote it... seems that i struck a chord with people... dont worry about starting a new thread for fear of hijacking.. i'm fine with it.. i enjoy starting up conversations... especially heated ones...

[JerryPH]

This seems rather comical to me when I recollect the many many many posts that I have seen. Those whom are more skilled then me, and those who have better hardware then me, boast on and on the fact that it is not the camera that takes the good picture but rather the person behind the camera.

Easy to answer. When the camera is in AUTO mode... who is making the important decisions, the operator, or the camera? I'll give you a hint... its not the operator.

[Dubious Drewski]

It's not about how smart the mode is. It can be very excellently designed, but it still can't read your mind.

How would have auto mode shot this?

It would have used a fast shutter speed to freeze the action. Ok, but that would be boring compared to what was done instead.

And how would it have shot this?

It would have tried to expose for the dog and the snow, probably wrecking the intended silhouette.

How would it shoot this?

It would pick some weird middle-ground aperture, requiring a very long shutter and making it impossible to handhold this shot like I did.

And this shot:

Who knows what settings green mode would have chosen or where the autofocus would have decided to focus. But this shot benefited because the photographer was in control on the photo, and the camera just helped, not the other way around.

I am telling you all, I'm not merely suggesting it, if you know your camera, Green mode is never the best choice. NEVER. If in doubt, plain old aperture priority is the way to go.

[pez]

Doesn't matter. Girls like assholes.

Little snippets of wisdom crop up in the strangest places...

[flea77]

You know, I find all this talk about newbies using auto and "real photographers" never using it rather amusing.....

When I started learning photography from a real professional (made their living for many years off the camera alone) he believed in making the image on the film, and only on the film. No post processing, no dodging, no burning, no cropping, no nothing. In addition, you did not use ANYTHING automatic, no aperture priority, no shutter priority, no auto-focus, no auto-flash, nothing. His theory was that if you could not get the picture right the first time, you were just a vacation snap-shooter and not worthy of his time. I almost got into real trouble for owning a motor drive but got a pass because I had to have it to shoot some sports I was doing (I was not allowed to use it when he was teaching me though).

So now we have to figure out where the "line" is. Is auto exposure for newbies but auto focus is OK? Is auto flash for newbies but auto bracketing OK? How about post processing, is contrast manipulation OK but cloning out items just for people too lazy to get it right the first time?

My personal opinion is that the objective is to get the picture as perfect as humanly possible in the camera, then use minimal PP. If that means shooting on auto, I think that is just fine.

Allan

[JerryPH]

You know, I find all this talk about newbies using auto and "real photographers" never using it rather amusing.....

I don't see the issue, this is not rocket science. Let me put it in the easiest terms possible:

Modern digital cameras, when placed in "AUTO" mode are making ALL the choices (except when to press the shutter), for you. The moment you leave all intelligence inside your camera bag instead of using your "noggin", you are NOT the one in control of the process, you are NOT the one taking the pic, you are just the clueless schmuck pressing the shutter... becuase some Japanese engineer in some dark room years ago (during the design phase of YOUR camera), made YOUR creative decisions about how YOUR camera is supposed to take pictures for you. Not you... them.

A better analogy is not about a motor drive or not... but about giving the totally manual camera to someone that doesn't know how to work it, then give it to someone who is good (but NOT excellent) in the darkroom and is saving the novice's hiney in post process. There is very little that is going to come out at the peak of it's quality... if anything.

How in the world can that camera designer know what conditions I shall encounter? How will that person know I am shooting snow and not a gray wall, or a black wall and do NOT want it gray? How can that person know that I will be at a football game at night under weak lights?

He cannot, but becuase the mindless auto user is both non-cogniscent of how cameras work, what photography is, nor in general really even care, they "ass-U-me" that what is coming out of the camera is the cat's pajamas.

Sorry... anyone that knows their equipment and understands something about photography KNOWS that the real magic happens when the person holding the lens has some level of understanding about photography AND can transfer that understanding to a level of functionality by over-riding the camera's AUTO choice of settings.

In plain English... if you are a good photographer, it is easy to consistently "out think" a camera on auto, and this results in better pictures.

[leighthal]

[quote=JerryPH;1547107] the mindless auto user is both non-cogniscent of how cameras work, what photography is, nor in general really even care, they "ass-U-me" that what is coming out of the camera is the cat's pajamas.


Wow, thanks for enlightening me. I didn't realize I was mindless.

I think I have just enough brain power to roll my eyes at perhaps the dumbest thing to come out of your mouth yet. When one "ass-U-mes" they usually end up being the biggest ass.

[Joves]

When I started learning photography from a real professional (made their living for many years off the camera alone) he believed in making the image on the film, and only on the film. No post processing, no dodging, no burning, no cropping, no nothing. In addition, you did not use ANYTHING automatic, no aperture priority, no shutter priority, no auto-focus, no auto-flash, nothing. His theory was that if you could not get the picture right the first time, you were just a vacation snap-shooter and not worthy of his time. I almost got into real trouble for owning a motor drive but got a pass because I had to have it to shoot some sports I was doing (I was not allowed to use it when he was teaching me though).

Allan

Actually in the darkroom you did alot of what you just listed. I personally have no problem with Auto shooters as I said. It is their option but, it would be nice if they would try and learn about their hobby.

[JerryPH]

[quote=leighthal;1547128]

the mindless auto user is both non-cogniscent of how cameras work, what photography is, nor in general really even care, they "ass-U-me" that what is coming out of the camera is the cat's pajamas.


Wow, thanks for enlightening me. I didn't realize I was mindless.

I think I have just enough brain power to roll my eyes at perhaps the dumbest thing to come out of your mouth yet. When one "ass-U-mes" they usually end up being the biggest ass.

Lol... I'm not the one that cannot figure out manual mode,
I'm not ashamed to say I used to not know, but I knew enough to know where to go to learn. Others prefer to complain and stay where they are... rolling their eyes at people and still not get it.