Using flash for wildlife photography. Does it work?

anubis404 · 02-23-2009, 09:57 AM

I've seen some wildlife photographers using flash for shooting wildlife. I'm going to order a telephoto lens, but I want to know if flash helps any. All of the wildlife photographers I've seen use flash were using bare flash. If I were to start using flash while shooting wildlife, should I use a bare flash or a bounce card/softbox to soften the light? Does flash even help shooting wildlife?

AUZambo · 02-23-2009, 10:07 AM

It seems you'd have to be pretty close to the wildlife for a flash to do any good. What kind of stuff will you be shooting? You can check the specs for a flash to see what they say is the maximum distance the flash can reach.

**Big Mike** · 02-23-2009, 10:12 AM

It certainly does work...but there are some things to think about.

Firstly, you don't want to hurt or scare the animals...that should be your first concern (besides your own safety, if you are shooting bears or sharks or something).

It obviously depends on what you are shooting...but a lot of wildlife is shot from farther away, rather than close up...which is probably why you want a telephoto lens.
Flash, like other light, falls of over distance. You need a lot more flash power to light something up that is 100 feet away than you do for something that is 10 feet away. It actually falls off at an inverse square to the distance.

This is most likely why you see them using bare flash rather than a softbox or something....they need all the power & distance that they can get...and flash modifiers greatly reduce the range. Also, when using flash as fill...you don't really need to soften it anyway.

Actually, the one flash modifier that I would recommend for shooting telephoto shots...is the Better Beamer...it gives you more range with your flash. Better Beamer

EOS_JD · 02-23-2009, 10:22 AM

Flash is generally used not to actually light the wildlife but to provide a nice catchlight and add (as Mike says) a little fill. You don't require a huge amount of power therefore as the flash is not going to normally light your subject.

Obviously it depends what you shoot and where you are doing it. In low light you may require flash to freeze your subject.

Experiment and see what you require but do try not to frighten the poor things

Overread · 02-23-2009, 11:10 AM

pretty much what BiG Mike said!
spooking the animals is always a risk with flash - so you have to judge when to use it. Some animals won't really bat an eyelid at it whilst others will be far more scared by it. I would say that its best used during the day and late dawn, early evening - not in full dark (since in the full dark you will most likley blast out the night vision of your target and certainly send them running blind.

bdavis · 02-23-2009, 11:56 AM

Just a note, bumping up the ISO will push the flash farther, but will also add noise to the image...

Village Idiot · 02-23-2009, 01:31 PM

Strobist: Winter Treat: Frozen Hummingbirds

Remotes.

anubis404 · 02-23-2009, 04:30 PM

The lens I'm waiting on is an 80-200 2.8. I am not going to be shooting anything dangerous. It will mostly be birds (the birds around here get within 15-20 feet of you on a daily basis) or animals in zoos. I definitely will not be using flash in zoos.

Overread · 02-23-2009, 04:49 PM

why not?
pretty much this whole set: British Wildlife Centre 3 1000 - a set on Flickr
was shot with flash on fill (it was a cloudy day so it was that or horrid high ISO). With something like a lumiquest softbox the lighting works well.
Also (I hate to say it) but the 80-200mm will be way too short for small birds unless you are intending to use hides and feeding stations to get them really close! (under 10feet)

If birds is your main intent bird photography starts at 400mm and a 400mm prime lens (or a 300mm f4 with 1.4 teleconverter) would be the best starting point for that sort of photography.
I have used a 70-200mm f2.8 IS lens for birds with a 2*teleconverter (with flash support - not essential but the combo needs very good lighting and I was in not so good lighting for the combo - f8 was where I was shooting to keep the sharpness as much as possible)
examples with 100% crops: little birds photos test - a set on Flickr

An 80-200mm with a 1.4 TC is a great zoo lens - but just does not have it for true wildlifing (at least its not an easy lens to use for it).

anubis404 · 02-23-2009, 05:24 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Overread

why not?
pretty much this whole set: British Wildlife Centre 3 1000 - a set on Flickr
was shot with flash on fill (it was a cloudy day so it was that or horrid high ISO). With something like a lumiquest softbox the lighting works well.
Also (I hate to say it) but the 80-200mm will be way too short for small birds unless you are intending to use hides and feeding stations to get them really close! (under 10feet)

If birds is your main intent bird photography starts at 400mm and a 400mm prime lens (or a 300mm f4 with 1.4 teleconverter) would be the best starting point for that sort of photography.
I have used a 70-200mm f2.8 IS lens for birds with a 2*teleconverter (with flash support - not essential but the combo needs very good lighting and I was in not so good lighting for the combo - f8 was where I was shooting to keep the sharpness as much as possible)
examples with 100% crops: little birds photos test - a set on Flickr

An 80-200mm with a 1.4 TC is a great zoo lens - but just does not have it for true wildlifing (at least its not an easy lens to use for it).

So I've heard, but I'm going to try anyway. This lens will be mostly for zoo stuff. I just happened to have a flash and wondered if it would work.

EDIT: 10 ft? Jeez, I though that with the crop factor I was going to get at least 15, hopefully 20 feet out of this lens.

Examples with no TC:

http://www.pbase.com/alexlim/image/100371269
http://www.flickr.com/photos/2205412...-nikkor_80-200
http://www.flickr.com/photos/3554579...nikkor_80-200/

Overread · 02-23-2009, 05:30 PM

small birds are - well - really tiny!
definatly give it a go (I do when I get the chance) but don't avoid feeders and hides (even the pros with 600mm lenses use such apparatus to help them get shots!)

anubis404 · 02-23-2009, 05:35 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Overread

small birds are - well - really tiny!
definatly give it a go (I do when I get the chance) but don't avoid feeders and hides (even the pros with 600mm lenses use such apparatus to help them get shots!)

I wont. I doubt I'm going to get any shots of small birds, but we do have quite a population of crows and pigens around here.

gryphonslair99 · 02-23-2009, 06:24 PM

Check out the bottom two links in this post.
http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/1543458-post6.html

This will explain its use and value.

Better Beamer
BIRDS AS ART: Photographic Accessories

**davebmck** · 02-23-2009, 06:42 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by anubis404

I wont. I doubt I'm going to get any shots of small birds, but we do have quite a population of crows and pigens around here.

Good luck with the crows. I can't get anywhere near them around here. They are very wary and always keep a watch crow posted.

anubis404 · 02-23-2009, 07:46 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by davebmck

Good luck with the crows. I can't get anywhere near them around here. They are very wary and always keep a watch crow posted.

Crows are generally further, but much larger than the smaller birds. I can get extremely close to humming birds but they seem too quick to photograph. I'll see what I can do once I get the lens.

02-23-2009, 09:57 AM	#1
anubis404 I spend too much of my life on TPF! Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 920 My Photos Are OK to Edit Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts My Gallery: (0)	Using flash for wildlife photography. Does it work? I've seen some wildlife photographers using flash for shooting wildlife. I'm going to order a telephoto lens, but I want to know if flash helps any. All of the wildlife photographers I've seen use flash were using bare flash. If I were to start using flash while shooting wildlife, should I use a bare flash or a bounce card/softbox to soften the light? Does flash even help shooting wildlife? __________________ Flikr Nikon D70S Sigma 18-50mm F2.8 Nikon 80-200mm F2.8 Nikkor 50mm F1.8 Nikon SB-600

02-23-2009, 10:07 AM	#2
AUZambo I spend too much of my life on TPF! Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Birmingham, AL, USA Posts: 532 My Photos Are OK to Edit Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts My Gallery: (0)	It seems you'd have to be pretty close to the wildlife for a flash to do any good. What kind of stuff will you be shooting? You can check the specs for a flash to see what they say is the maximum distance the flash can reach. __________________ Sony A700 http://www.flickr.com/paulccarboni

02-23-2009, 10:12 AM	#3
Big Mike I am Big, I am Mike Site Moderator Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Edmonton Posts: 23,187 My Photos Are NOT OK to Edit Thanked 328 Times in 301 Posts My Gallery: (94)	It certainly does work...but there are some things to think about. Firstly, you don't want to hurt or scare the animals...that should be your first concern (besides your own safety, if you are shooting bears or sharks or something). It obviously depends on what you are shooting...but a lot of wildlife is shot from farther away, rather than close up...which is probably why you want a telephoto lens. Flash, like other light, falls of over distance. You need a lot more flash power to light something up that is 100 feet away than you do for something that is 10 feet away. It actually falls off at an inverse square to the distance. This is most likely why you see them using bare flash rather than a softbox or something....they need all the power & distance that they can get...and flash modifiers greatly reduce the range. Also, when using flash as fill...you don't really need to soften it anyway. Actually, the one flash modifier that I would recommend for shooting telephoto shots...is the Better Beamer...it gives you more range with your flash. Better Beamer __________________ "The most important thing I have learned over the years is the difference between taking one's work seriously and taking one's self seriously. The first is imperative, and the second disastrous" Edmonton Wedding Photographer ==>Blog

02-23-2009, 10:22 AM	#4
EOS_JD TPF Junkie! Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 1,698 My Photos Are OK to Edit Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post My Gallery: (0)	Flash is generally used not to actually light the wildlife but to provide a nice catchlight and add (as Mike says) a little fill. You don't require a huge amount of power therefore as the flash is not going to normally light your subject. Obviously it depends what you shoot and where you are doing it. In low light you may require flash to freeze your subject. Experiment and see what you require but do try not to frighten the poor things __________________ EOS 40D with grip\| EOS 20D with Grip \| EF-S 10-22 f3.5-4.5 \| EF 24-105 f4L IS \| EF 70-200 f2.8L IS \| EF 50 f/1.4 \| EF 85 f1.8 \| EF 100 f2.8 Macro \| EF 300 f4L IS \| EF 1.4x MkII \| Tamron 17-35 f2.8-4 \| 28-75 f2.8 \| Canon 580EX \| Sigma EF500 DG Super \| Lightsphere II \| Stofen Diffuser \| Epson P-2000 \|Manfroto 055 ProB Tripod w/488RC4 Head \| Epson R2400 \| Epson C900 \| Lowepro Nova 5 AW \| Lowepro Mini Trekker AW \| Elinchrom 400BX x3 strobes \| Sekonic L-358 \| Various studio accessories

02-23-2009, 11:10 AM	#5
Overread TPF Junkie! Join Date: May 2008 Location: UK - England Posts: 8,031 My Photos Are OK to Edit Thanked 225 Times in 198 Posts My Gallery: (0)	pretty much what BiG Mike said! spooking the animals is always a risk with flash - so you have to judge when to use it. Some animals won't really bat an eyelid at it whilst others will be far more scared by it. I would say that its best used during the day and late dawn, early evening - not in full dark (since in the full dark you will most likley blast out the night vision of your target and certainly send them running blind. __________________ How to get critique and feedback on your photography! The Wildlife Project My Flickr The Mentor Scheme mentoring on TPF all are welcome to read and apply Gear list: Canon 400D+batterygrip; Canon 70-200mm f2.8 IS L M2!! Canon MPE 65mm f2.8 macro; Sigma 70mm f2.8 macro; Sigma 150mm f2.8 macro; 580EX2; more teleconverters than is healthy! "When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk" Tuco Sometimes a few singing babes help as well

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02-23-2009, 11:56 AM	#6
bdavis I spend too much of my life on TPF! Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Iowa Posts: 782 My Photos Are NOT OK to Edit Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts My Gallery: (0)	Just a note, bumping up the ISO will push the flash farther, but will also add noise to the image... __________________ Visit my PhotoBlog My Web Gallery

02-23-2009, 01:31 PM	#7
Village Idiot TPF Junkie! Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Shepherdsturd, WV / Almost, MD Posts: 3,947 My Photos Are NOT OK to Edit Thanked 57 Times in 52 Posts My Gallery: (0)	Strobist: Winter Treat: Frozen Hummingbirds Remotes. __________________ Slough Roast Blog Capitol Sound Blog

02-23-2009, 04:30 PM	#8
anubis404 I spend too much of my life on TPF! Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 920 My Photos Are OK to Edit Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts My Gallery: (0)	The lens I'm waiting on is an 80-200 2.8. I am not going to be shooting anything dangerous. It will mostly be birds (the birds around here get within 15-20 feet of you on a daily basis) or animals in zoos. I definitely will not be using flash in zoos. __________________ Flikr Nikon D70S Sigma 18-50mm F2.8 Nikon 80-200mm F2.8 Nikkor 50mm F1.8 Nikon SB-600

02-23-2009, 04:49 PM	#9
Overread TPF Junkie! Join Date: May 2008 Location: UK - England Posts: 8,031 My Photos Are OK to Edit Thanked 225 Times in 198 Posts My Gallery: (0)	why not? pretty much this whole set: British Wildlife Centre 3 1000 - a set on Flickr was shot with flash on fill (it was a cloudy day so it was that or horrid high ISO). With something like a lumiquest softbox the lighting works well. Also (I hate to say it) but the 80-200mm will be way too short for small birds unless you are intending to use hides and feeding stations to get them really close! (under 10feet) If birds is your main intent bird photography starts at 400mm and a 400mm prime lens (or a 300mm f4 with 1.4 teleconverter) would be the best starting point for that sort of photography. I have used a 70-200mm f2.8 IS lens for birds with a 2*teleconverter (with flash support - not essential but the combo needs very good lighting and I was in not so good lighting for the combo - f8 was where I was shooting to keep the sharpness as much as possible) examples with 100% crops: little birds photos test - a set on Flickr An 80-200mm with a 1.4 TC is a great zoo lens - but just does not have it for true wildlifing (at least its not an easy lens to use for it). __________________ How to get critique and feedback on your photography! The Wildlife Project My Flickr The Mentor Scheme mentoring on TPF all are welcome to read and apply Gear list: Canon 400D+batterygrip; Canon 70-200mm f2.8 IS L M2!! Canon MPE 65mm f2.8 macro; Sigma 70mm f2.8 macro; Sigma 150mm f2.8 macro; 580EX2; more teleconverters than is healthy! "When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk" Tuco Sometimes a few singing babes help as well

02-23-2009, 05:24 PM	#10
anubis404 I spend too much of my life on TPF! Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 920 My Photos Are OK to Edit Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts My Gallery: (0)	Quote: Originally Posted by Overread why not? pretty much this whole set: British Wildlife Centre 3 1000 - a set on Flickr was shot with flash on fill (it was a cloudy day so it was that or horrid high ISO). With something like a lumiquest softbox the lighting works well. Also (I hate to say it) but the 80-200mm will be way too short for small birds unless you are intending to use hides and feeding stations to get them really close! (under 10feet) If birds is your main intent bird photography starts at 400mm and a 400mm prime lens (or a 300mm f4 with 1.4 teleconverter) would be the best starting point for that sort of photography. I have used a 70-200mm f2.8 IS lens for birds with a 2teleconverter (with flash support - not essential but the combo needs very good lighting and I was in not so good lighting for the combo - f8 was where I was shooting to keep the sharpness as much as possible) examples with 100% crops: little birds photos test - a set on Flickr An 80-200mm with a 1.4 TC is a great zoo lens - but just does not have it for true wildlifing (at least its not an easy lens to use for it). So I've heard, but I'm going to try anyway. This lens will be mostly for zoo stuff. I just happened to have a flash and wondered if it would work. EDIT: 10 ft? Jeez, I though that with the crop factor I was going to get at least 15, hopefully 20 feet out of this lens. Examples with no TC: http://www.pbase.com/alexlim/image/100371269 http://www.flickr.com/photos/2205412...-nikkor_80-200 http://www.flickr.com/photos/3554579...nikkor_80-200/ __________________ Flikr Nikon D70S Sigma 18-50mm F2.8 Nikon 80-200mm F2.8 Nikkor 50mm F1.8 Nikon SB-600 Last edited by anubis404; 02-23-2009 at 05:33 PM.*

02-23-2009, 05:30 PM	#11
Overread TPF Junkie! Join Date: May 2008 Location: UK - England Posts: 8,031 My Photos Are OK to Edit Thanked 225 Times in 198 Posts My Gallery: (0)	small birds are - well - really tiny! definatly give it a go (I do when I get the chance) but don't avoid feeders and hides (even the pros with 600mm lenses use such apparatus to help them get shots!) __________________ How to get critique and feedback on your photography! The Wildlife Project My Flickr The Mentor Scheme mentoring on TPF all are welcome to read and apply Gear list: Canon 400D+batterygrip; Canon 70-200mm f2.8 IS L M2!! Canon MPE 65mm f2.8 macro; Sigma 70mm f2.8 macro; Sigma 150mm f2.8 macro; 580EX2; more teleconverters than is healthy! "When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk" Tuco Sometimes a few singing babes help as well

02-23-2009, 05:35 PM	#12
anubis404 I spend too much of my life on TPF! Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 920 My Photos Are OK to Edit Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts My Gallery: (0)	Quote: Originally Posted by Overread small birds are - well - really tiny! definatly give it a go (I do when I get the chance) but don't avoid feeders and hides (even the pros with 600mm lenses use such apparatus to help them get shots!) I wont. I doubt I'm going to get any shots of small birds, but we do have quite a population of crows and pigens around here. __________________ Flikr Nikon D70S Sigma 18-50mm F2.8 Nikon 80-200mm F2.8 Nikkor 50mm F1.8 Nikon SB-600

02-23-2009, 06:24 PM	#13
gryphonslair99 TPF Junkie! Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Wichita, Kansas, USA Posts: 2,542 My Photos Are OK to Edit Thanked 33 Times in 29 Posts My Gallery: (0)	Check out the bottom two links in this post. http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/1543458-post6.html This will explain its use and value. Better Beamer BIRDS AS ART: Photographic Accessories __________________ I can honestly say that there are two most remarkable men in the world these day. Michio Kaku and myself. Between us we cover all knowledge. Kaku knows all that can be known....And I know the rest. If by chance some day you're not feeling well and you should remember some silly thing I've said or done and it brings back a smile to your face or a chuckle to your heart, then my purpose as your clown has been fulfilled.

02-23-2009, 06:42 PM	#14
davebmck I spend too much of my life on TPF! Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Waxhaw, NC Posts: 654 My Photos Are NOT OK to Edit Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts My Gallery: (0)	Quote: Originally Posted by anubis404 I wont. I doubt I'm going to get any shots of small birds, but we do have quite a population of crows and pigens around here. Good luck with the crows. I can't get anywhere near them around here. They are very wary and always keep a watch crow posted. __________________ Canon 5D Mark II Canon 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS, Canon 17-40mm f/4L Canon 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro, Canon 24-105 f/4L IS Canon 50mm F1.8, Canon 500mm f/4 L IS Canon 580EXII Flash, Canon MR-14 EX Ring Flash Gitzo GT3530LS Tripod & RRS BH-55 Ballhead

02-23-2009, 07:46 PM	#15
anubis404 I spend too much of my life on TPF! Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 920 My Photos Are OK to Edit Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts My Gallery: (0)	Quote: Originally Posted by davebmck Good luck with the crows. I can't get anywhere near them around here. They are very wary and always keep a watch crow posted. Crows are generally further, but much larger than the smaller birds. I can get extremely close to humming birds but they seem too quick to photograph. I'll see what I can do once I get the lens. __________________ Flikr Nikon D70S Sigma 18-50mm F2.8 Nikon 80-200mm F2.8 Nikkor 50mm F1.8 Nikon SB-600

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