T4 i as a first DSLR

[crotonmark]

I am looking for my first DSLR. I am leaning to the T4i based on price and the new electronics and features.
I sense a real bias against the Rebel line on this board.
Can you guys tell me why.
I am trying to learn digital photography. I have no professional aspirations. I just don't want to buy junk. All the knocks on the Revel make me doubt my choice.

I used to play with a Canon EOS 10S.

Thanks

Mark

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[sovietdoc]

I sense a real bias against the Rebel line on this board.

I am not sure why you think that. The only bias against rebels is in professional photography when a guy with a rebel comes up and steals business from a guy with a 1D Mark IV.

T4i is a very nice camera, even maybe a little more than your average starter kit. But why not Nikon? What are you interested in taking pictures of and how much of a budget you got?

Sometimes I can also pay off by getting a cheaper camera but a better lens.

[Overread]

As sovietdoc the only real "bias" against the rebel line is that its not a professional high grade line of DSLRs. As such its not the tool people recommend nor expect a professional to use. It's also at the bottom end of the DSLR scale and as such is one that many more experienced/long term hobbyists tend to "grow out of" or "move up from".

That said its still a very good DSLR and still capable of some very good results. Heck pair it with some high end lenses and good lighting control and composition and you can get some stunning photos with even the rebel camera. Also, as said, saving on the DSLR is actually a good move as it means you can put a little more cash toward other areas of importance such as lighting equipment and good lenses (in these two areas is where you'll see more of the gain in image quality; sensors are the lesser part of the equation - at least when keeping them the same size, changing sensor sizes shifts things a bit).

[crotonmark]

thanks for the replies. I am thinking of the T4i to use for family shots, some sports and some nature pictures.
I am leaning toward it because I have a 50mm 1.8 and a 35-105mm 3.5 - 4.5 from my EOS film days.
I also liked the video features that I read about (is it really only able to shoot 12 minutes at a time)?

Mark

As sovietdoc the only real "bias" against the rebel line is that its not a professional high grade line of DSLRs. As such its not the tool people recommend nor expect a professional to use. It's also at the bottom end of the DSLR scale and as such is one that many more experienced/long term hobbyists tend to "grow out of" or "move up from".

That said its still a very good DSLR and still capable of some very good results. Heck pair it with some high end lenses and good lighting control and composition and you can get some stunning photos with even the rebel camera. Also, as said, saving on the DSLR is actually a good move as it means you can put a little more cash toward other areas of importance such as lighting equipment and good lenses (in these two areas is where you'll see more of the gain in image quality; sensors are the lesser part of the equation - at least when keeping them the same size, changing sensor sizes shifts things a bit).

[Overread]

Just a point, remember the rebel series are "crop" sensor cameras; so compared to the 35mm that you used in the past, the rebel will give you a different angle of view with those lenses than they give you on the 35mm. In rough terms the lenses will feel as if they are 1.6 times longer than they were on the 35mm camera.

So the 50mm becomes similar to an 80mm lens
and the 35-105mm become similar to a 56-168mm lens.

Note that the focal length remains the same even on the crop sensor camera, what is changing is the angle of view that the lenses give (because the sensor in the crop sensor camera is smaller and thus misses capturing the edge areas that the lens projects).

If you want to get the same angles of view that you were used to on the 35mm film camera then you'll have to get a fullframe digital camera. That will limit you to mostly second hand/reconditioned copies of the 5D (not much difference in price to the rebel and whilst it is older its still very capable, it will lack video mode); second hand, new, reconditioned 5DMII (has video, but a much higher price too); and the new 5DMIII (very very expensive).

There are also fullframe versions of the 1D line, though I can't quite the specific model names for them; also note they will be on the more expensive side.

[crotonmark]

Thanks Overread - my budget is stretched just to get the T4i. What do you think of these lenses?

[Overread]

The 50mm shouldn't have any problems at all, in fact the older metal made f1.8 version is often favoured over the newer (which is cheaper and plastic bodied and will fall in half if you stare at it badly). The other lens I can't comment on, though you might find it a little long indoors, but otherwise it shouldn't have any drastic problems with the camera that I can think of.

[crotonmark]

One of the things that attracts me to the T4i is the 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS STM Lens

that is part of the kit (if it ever actually goes on sale).
Would this be a big conflict with the lens I have?

Mark

[Overread]

Well that lens as part of the kit will be a good boon, 18mm at the wide end will mean that it can give you a lens much more suited to working indoors and in closer spaces. The IS as well will be a boon to giving you a smoother handholding (this is especially helpful for video work when you are not using a tripod).

I've no idea how it will directly compete against the 35-105mm that you have now, but I would expect it to be similar to if not better than in performance (that said its purely a guess; even if its performance is a bit lesser - which I don't expect - chances are its focal range will be far more versatile) .

[jaomul]

I originally bought a 50d with a 28-135mm lens as it is supposed to be a good kit lens. It is, but not on a crop sensor camera such as the t4 is. I found 28mm very limiting indoors(so 35mm would be also), like if you want to take a photo of more than 1 person. I sold it to get a 18-55mm IS kit lens which was much better. In this regard the 18-135mm lens, be it the new STM or the regular one would in my opinion be way better and more flexible than your 35-105mm. The bias against the rebel series is probably due to the fact that many on the forum have more expensive, better built cameras. These more expensive cameras have more dedicated buttons for faster changing of settings without hunting through menus. The more expensive cameras do not necessarily take better photographs

[jrizal]

I also liked the video features that I read about (is it really only able to shoot 12 minutes at a time)?

AFAIK, the limit is to prevent the sensor from overheating. (Nikon has a 10 minute limit.) There is the argument that most videos shot more than five minutes tend to bore the audience which makes this moot. But then again, I still kept my ultra zoom point and shoot because it can handle longer recording times.

PS There are firmware hacks out there which can override the time limits of video recordings. But the rule there is "user beware."

[crotonmark]

Trust me
im not messing with that!!

Mark

I also liked the video features that I read about (is it really only able to shoot 12 minutes at a time)?

AFAIK, the limit is to prevent the sensor from overheating. (Nikon has a 10 minute limit.) There is the argument that most videos shot more than five minutes tend to bore the audience which makes this moot. But then again, I still kept my ultra zoom point and shoot because it can handle longer recording times.

PS There are firmware hacks out there which can override the time limits of video recordings. But the rule there is "user beware."

[sovietdoc]

When sensor heats up (like from shooting in live view mode), you get more noise in images. A lot of people don't know that.