How do I get better B&W prints???

[kabory]

Hello all, I am new here. I have been out of the Photography seen for 30 some years. I just finished building my darkroom and purchased all equipment. Problem I am having is my prints are coming out so so. I am trying to get a really good black and white print. Dont know if its me or the equipment I purchased, Is there much difference in enalrgers? I passed on a Omega D5XL because of its size. I am using an Omega C700 enlarger with the following chemical times.

Develop for 1 min
Stop for 30 sec
Fix for 3 min.

Thanx
Bob

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[ann]

Would need a lot more information.

Which paper, which grade, which developer, fstop and times for exposure.

Enlargers are basically the same, at least in concept. Some are better , meaning more stable able to do more formats.I would have opt for the d5xl for that reason alone.

[Helen B]

What ann said. What do you mean by 'so so'? Low contrast? No deep blacks? No clean highlights? Poor definition?

[kabory]

Would need a lot more information.

Which paper, which grade, which developer, fstop and times for exposure.

Enlargers are basically the same, at least in concept. Some are better , meaning more stable able to do more formats.I would have opt for the d5xl for that reason alone.

Ilford RC paper, Glossy, Kodak D76 developer, 4 fstop, used various times on exposure. I wish I went with the D5XL also, but I would have to redu the darkroom I already laid out for the enlarger height. Could have got it for a steal, I tried to purchase it after the C700, but it already sold.

[kabory]

What ann said. What do you mean by 'so so'? Low contrast? No deep blacks? No clean highlights? Poor definition?

all of the above, tried using different filters and times, May just need more time in darkroom, was getting fustrated after several attempts and called it quits.

[Derrel]

Hard to say without a LOT more information...but there are the usual suspects...first is 1)safelights that are not truly "safe" for your paper! Safelight lighting can easily cause low-level fogging that leads to dull prints. 2) Is the developer at the right temperature? Lower temps make for much less efficient development 3) Are you developing your prints face-down in the tray, and PROPERLY agitating the print while it develops? 4) Are you developing your prints strictly by time--that is to say, for a FULL 60 seconds, or 90 seconds? Too-short development times can be bad, and cause dull-looking prints 5)Are you allowing for any "dry-down effect"? When viewed in the darkroom, under the proper examination light, a wet print often looks a bit snappier and more contrasty than it will once it dried, and is viewed in flatter, higher foot-candle lighting...6) Is your chemistry fresh, and properly diluted? Is your paper fresh, and in-date?

I think with good safelights, that are TRULY SAFE for the paper in use, that a somewhat longer development time of say 90 seconds, or even two full minutes,with the print face-down in the developer, leads to a slightly better overall image than a 60-second development time as standard...I just never felt that 60 seconds was giving me "everything the paper had in it". 60 seconds always felt too short to me...this was working under good,tested safelighting also. The face-down development keeps the image away from the safelight, and also more importantly, causes the darkroom worker to stick to the fundamentals of getting the right exposure on the right grade of paper, with the right dodging and burning, and working "by the numbers", and never being tempted to "yank" a print that appears to "come up too quickly" in the developing tray.

You might wish to test your safelight for 100%R safeness"--if the safelight lighting is fogging the paper, you will have only so-so prints!

[Helen B]

Ilford RC paper, Glossy, Kodak D76 developer, 4 fstop, used various times on exposure. I wish I went with the D5XL also, but I would have to redu the darkroom I already laid out for the enlarger height. Could have got it for a steal, I tried to purchase it after the C700, but it already sold.

D76 is no good for paper. Use a proper paper developer like Dektol, or a 'universal' developer like Ilford PQ Universal (which is hardly ever used for film). Make sure the dev is up to temperature (shouldn't be a problem at this time of year) and develop fully - something like 2 minutes. Do not develop by inspection unless you are accustomed to it. Paper is developed to completion, so overdevelopment doesn't matter much if you have the exposure correct - I used to develop for 6 to 8 minutes, after someone* showed me the method. That was with different paper, however, but you get the idea. Try longer times and see how that affects the image. Get that experience.

An aperture of f/4 is a little too wide - try stopping down to f/8 or at least f/5.6.

Start by exposing for maximum black. Find out what maximum black is by fully exposing a small piece of paper to the light, then make sure that it is fully developed, washed and fixed. Then compare that black with the black you achieve in a normal print - always do a wet-wet or dry-dry comparison, not a dry-wet comparison, and do it in normal room light.

*Edit - I removed the name

[ann]

Pay attention to Helen she knows what she is taking about.

SHe got to you before I did with regard to D76. Only one thing I would differ about. Ilford recommends 90 sec. development time for RC paper, if it happened to be fiber then for sure 2 minutes.

[kabory]

Hard to say without a LOT more information...but there are the usual suspects...first is 1)safelights that are not truly "safe" for your paper! Safelight lighting can easily cause low-level fogging that leads to dull prints. 2) Is the developer at the right temperature? Lower temps make for much less efficient development 3) Are you developing your prints face-down in the tray, and PROPERLY agitating the print while it develops? 4) Are you developing your prints strictly by time--that is to say, for a FULL 60 seconds, or 90 seconds? Too-short development times can be bad, and cause dull-looking prints 5)Are you allowing for any "dry-down effect"? When viewed in the darkroom, under the proper examination light, a wet print often looks a bit snappier and more contrasty than it will once it dried, and is viewed in flatter, higher foot-candle lighting...6) Is your chemistry fresh, and properly diluted? Is your paper fresh, and in-date?

I think with good safelights, that are TRULY SAFE for the paper in use, that a somewhat longer development time of say 90 seconds, or even two full minutes,with the print face-down in the developer, leads to a slightly better overall image than a 60-second development time as standard...I just never felt that 60 seconds was giving me "everything the paper had in it". 60 seconds always felt too short to me...this was working under good,tested safelighting also. The face-down development keeps the image away from the safelight, and also more importantly, causes the darkroom worker to stick to the fundamentals of getting the right exposure on the right grade of paper, with the right dodging and burning, and working "by the numbers", and never being tempted to "yank" a print that appears to "come up too quickly" in the developing tray.

You might wish to test your safelight for 100%R safeness"--if the safelight lighting is fogging the paper, you will have only so-so prints!

Thank You,
I am using a safelight bulb mounted in a fixture on the wall 2 feet above and behind enlarger and it is at least 4 foot away from chemical trays.
chemicals are at 68 to 70 degrees, room temp.
I have been developing face up and for only 60 seconds, I will try face down and 2 min.
chemicals are new, paper is old, but was unopened and refridgerated.
what does fogging the paper look like?


Here is the darkroom with the safelite location, hard to see, You can just see the bottom of fixture to the right and above enlarger, chemical trays go on counter to right of enlarger

[ann]

fogged paper has a gray cast, from very light, too serious gray.

You really need to get a paper developer.

[kabory]

Thanks everyone, I got my work cut out for me now. I also just read at the kodak site on how to test your paper with the safe lite location. Going to do that first to see if I'm fogging.

[kabory]

maybe its the litter box, lol

[kabory]

Just realized, I am not using D76 for paper. I am using Dektol. my bad. I use the D76 for film.

[ann]

good. 1:2 is the standard ratio

If the paper is old it could be fogged.

However, it will be helpful to learn how to test for min. time for maxium black. Then you will start to see what black looks like. I know this sounds silly, but you would be surprised how many think very dark gray is black.

[kabory]

Update #1
Safe lite is in good location and not causing any fogging. Looks like it was a mix of old paper and short develop time.

Could use help now on testing for min. time for maxium black. Little confused on this. To start, how long should I expose a piece of paper and at what F stop?