Breach of contract?

ryan7783 · 10-16-2009, 02:09 PM

So my friend (guy I work with) is getting married tomorrow. They were scheduled to be married outside but due to the weather, they had to use their backup rain location which is in a dimly lit recital hall. When he told me this, I made sure to explain that he needed to let his photographers know of the change ASAP so they could readjust strategy. (Side note: He paid a professional photographer a lot of money ~ $3500 to come shoot his wedding. This isn't like he asked johnny shutterbug to shoot it for $300). It's a 2 shooter operation (Husband and Wife)

So he calls them and tells them about the backup location and that everything is moving inside. Well they took the opportunity to tell him they wouldn't be coming because a relative died and they would be attending the funeral. I understand family death is a serious thing so that isn't the issue but they literally gave him 24 hours notice

In the contract, which he read and signed, it said that in the event that they were unable to attend the wedding, that they would assign replacement for their absence.
ALSO in the contract is the clause that states that there shall be 2 photographers. They are sending 1 photographer NOT associated with their business but rather someone that they have worked with before.

So he asks me over the phone (about 30 minutes ago) if it's a breach of contract for them to send only 1 photographer considering the clause stating there shall be 2 photographers. I told him that without reading the contract myself that I couldn't be 100% sure but it sounded like it to me.

Then he asked me if I would come and shoot as a second shooter but that he was worried about stepping on the other photographers toes. I told him that unless there is a clause that says he CANNOT hire another photographer, that I could come and shoot it.

So I'm shooting his wedding tomorrow as a lone gunman. I understand that he has a contract with this other photographer but they're screwing him out of 1 photographer and I would consider that grounds to change the game plan. Usually I wouldn't impose on another photographers territory but I feel like he deserves to have what he expected to have in the first place. Did I instruct him correctly?
Also what would you do in this situation?

Village Idiot · 10-16-2009, 02:17 PM

Talk to the other photographer before you start doing anything.

ryan7783 · 10-16-2009, 02:29 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Village Idiot

Talk to the other photographer before you start doing anything.

That's the plan

Canosonic · 10-16-2009, 03:33 PM

Just cheering you up.
Get a camera-minigun.
Camera Mingun on Flickr - Photo Sharing!

**KmH** · 10-16-2009, 07:28 PM

Right off the bat: an online forum is the wrong place to be seeking legal advice because laws differ by state, county, and town.

Most good wedding photographers have a mutual support arrangement with other competent photographers, so when a tragedy happens and they're not able to honor a commitment, a wedding has competent photographic coverage.

It's possible the single replacement photographer has more skill, experience, better equipment and will do a better job than the hubby/wife team. It's entirely possible a 2 shooter team just wasn't available.

If you're not an attorney, I would recommend being very careful drawing conclusions about contract language.

I think were your friend to persue a breach-of-contract action in court, the out come would not be as certain as you seem to think it would be.

Having you shoot at the wedding, could in fact, put the shoe on the other foot, and you and your friend could wind up being the one's breaching the contract.

It's a truly an unfortunate situation for both parties but your friend needs to seek local, qualified legal advice, ASAP.

IgsEMT · 10-16-2009, 08:26 PM

Ryan,
Here's my 2cents...
Generally speaking, studios work with number of photographers and we all have each other's back... meaning, if a buddy of mine calls me now saying that he is sick, I'll cover the gig for him. That is probably the case here. The fact that this guy isn't part of the studio

Quote:

They are sending 1 photographer NOT associated with their business but rather someone that they have worked with before.

is irrelevant once again b/c he is probably a freelancer and IS covering for them. The only issue here is that contract is for two crews and they are getting one crew.
Now, number of times, I've went on the job where people didn't even know that "studio owner" wasn't going to be there, it sux and isn't write but it is a reality of the business, what matters is that they get image quality that they signed up for. I'd assume that this back up photog knows is equally good if not better then the studio owners thus ideally, your friends shouldn't worry about anything. HOWEVER, THEY are paying for two crews thus if they are getting one crew, this should be deducted upon paying the balance.
NOW THE LEGALITY of the matter KMH hit it on the money

Quote:

an online forum is the wrong place to be seeking legal advice because laws differ by state, county, and town.

What I'd suggest your role to be in this case is optimism. Number of us told you same thing, pass that to your friends. They have to smile for their pictures and not worry about WHO EXACTLY is their photographer. They already pissed and there's no need to take it out on the guy who'll be there documenting their happy day. Tell them to enjoy their day and have fun with their friends and family.
My wedding: we had 2 crew photog, one did formals, ceremony and reception and 2nd was concentrating on guests and printing 4x6 for them on the spot as a souvenir from us (B&G). My wedding album included images from 5-6 cameras, two above and guests with their SLRs and P&S.
Therefore, ENJOY THE WEDDING

ryan7783 · 10-17-2009, 05:21 AM

I'm going but I'll be there as a "friend with a camera". He's not paying me so I don't see where this will be a problem. Dozens of people bring cameras to weddings... I'm just another one of them. The point of the 2 shooters was to have 1 in the balcony and 1 on the floor during the ceremony. Obviously 1 person can't be in two places at the same time so I'm shooting from the balcony. It's likely the other photographer won't even know I'm there.
Maybe I didn't clarify that I'm NOT shooting the entire wedding as I would if I were the primary photographer. I'm just there to take pictures as a friend - I'm not doing business. He offered to pay me and I said no

erphoto · 10-17-2009, 08:19 AM

As a wedding photographer, I find the fact that they didn't take the opportunity to tell him they wouldn't be attending until HE called them a bit appalling. And yes, if they were contracted for 2 and they are only sending 1, then it should be deducted in the cost they paid. But that's just my opinion. I'd say if the pictures aren't up to snuff to the quality he was expecting he should explore his options... but it is rather upsetting that it will probably affect their day. I hope they are able to breath a sigh of relief knowing that you are there as a "friendly" back up. I shoot as lone shooter on all my weddings and if there is a balcony situation, I try to actually find a friend of the couple to shoot from the balcony if they want.

They don't have to pay them and I don't either.

ryan7783 · 10-17-2009, 08:29 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by erphoto

As a wedding photographer, I find the fact that they didn't take the opportunity to tell him they wouldn't be attending until HE called them a bit appalling. And yes, if they were contracted for 2 and they are only sending 1, then it should be deducted in the cost they paid. But that's just my opinion. I'd say if the pictures aren't up to snuff to the quality he was expecting he should explore his options... but it is rather upsetting that it will probably affect their day. I hope they are able to breath a sigh of relief knowing that you are there as a "friendly" back up. I shoot as lone shooter on all my weddings and if there is a balcony situation, I try to actually find a friend of the couple to shoot from the balcony if they want.

They don't have to pay them and I don't either.

The real messed up part about this whole thing is that they have fought tooth and nail on almost every aspect of the wedding process. Her dress was all wrong when it arrived and then, after weeks of arguing with and not being able to get in touch with the dress people, they finally got it to her only to have somehow stained it so it took her another 2 weeks to get them to fix that. Then their caterer bailed on them, the chair/table rental place double booked the chairs they wanted so they had to frantically choose another style of chair, and now it's raining so they have to move the whole outdoors set inside to a secondary, less attractive, venue. They've spent nearly $15,000 to get subpar service.

erphoto · 10-17-2009, 08:35 AM

Awww man.

That really blows. It's literally been falling apart since the beginning.

chakalakasp · 10-17-2009, 10:27 AM

Elope! Elope!

ryan7783 · 10-17-2009, 07:22 PM

So I got there and went straight to the balcony. After the ceremony I went downstairs and only got a few pictures at random times. The other photographer and I started talking and she was super cool about everything. She even asked me to take a look at her primary camera because it had stopped working (Mirror had stuck) but she had a backup camera.
So we spoke for 10-15 minutes while everyone was eating and then exchanged business cards.
I only got about 80 pictures. I took IgsEMT's advice and enjoyed the wedding. I spent less time worrying about pictures and more time enjoying the bacon wrapped scallops.

**KmH** · 10-17-2009, 08:15 PM

So the stand in photographer was using Canon gear huh?

ryan7783 · 10-18-2009, 04:49 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by KmH

So the stand in photographer was using Canon gear huh?

Yup.

I'm a Nikon guy myself but almost every photographer I know personally uses Canon. Even my wife uses Canon...The first digital camera I ever bought was a Nikon D60 - used it for about 3 weeks, returned it and bought a Canon 40D - used THAT for about 3 days and went and bought myself a Nikon D300. That was 2.5 years ago and I couldn't be happier with it.

**UUilliam** · 10-18-2009, 05:09 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by KmH

So the stand in photographer was using Canon gear huh?

Oh you!!

I must admit, My mirror has stuck once, A simple on/off/on job done the trick

10-16-2009, 02:09 PM	#1
ryan7783 I spend too much of my life on TPF! Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Richmond, VA Posts: 321 My Photos Are NOT OK to Edit Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts My Gallery: (0)	Breach of contract? So my friend (guy I work with) is getting married tomorrow. They were scheduled to be married outside but due to the weather, they had to use their backup rain location which is in a dimly lit recital hall. When he told me this, I made sure to explain that he needed to let his photographers know of the change ASAP so they could readjust strategy. (Side note: He paid a professional photographer a lot of money ~ $3500 to come shoot his wedding. This isn't like he asked johnny shutterbug to shoot it for $300). It's a 2 shooter operation (Husband and Wife) So he calls them and tells them about the backup location and that everything is moving inside. Well they took the opportunity to tell him they wouldn't be coming because a relative died and they would be attending the funeral. I understand family death is a serious thing so that isn't the issue but they literally gave him 24 hours notice In the contract, which he read and signed, it said that in the event that they were unable to attend the wedding, that they would assign replacement for their absence. ALSO in the contract is the clause that states that there shall be 2 photographers. They are sending 1 photographer NOT associated with their business but rather someone that they have worked with before. So he asks me over the phone (about 30 minutes ago) if it's a breach of contract for them to send only 1 photographer considering the clause stating there shall be 2 photographers. I told him that without reading the contract myself that I couldn't be 100% sure but it sounded like it to me. Then he asked me if I would come and shoot as a second shooter but that he was worried about stepping on the other photographers toes. I told him that unless there is a clause that says he CANNOT hire another photographer, that I could come and shoot it. So I'm shooting his wedding tomorrow as a lone gunman. I understand that he has a contract with this other photographer but they're screwing him out of 1 photographer and I would consider that grounds to change the game plan. Usually I wouldn't impose on another photographers territory but I feel like he deserves to have what he expected to have in the first place. Did I instruct him correctly? Also what would you do in this situation? __________________ http://www.phillipsphotography.org Last edited by ryan7783; 10-16-2009 at 02:14 PM.

10-16-2009, 02:17 PM	#2
Village Idiot TPF Junkie! Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Shepherdsturd, WV / Almost, MD Posts: 3,294 My Photos Are NOT OK to Edit Thanked 31 Times in 28 Posts My Gallery: (0)	Talk to the other photographer before you start doing anything. __________________ I'm a Pirate. That's because Pirates are better than ninjas. So much better that Pirate deserves to be capitalized as a proper noun and ninja does not. Yar!!! Thirty-five D's and two Marks Lots of millimeters and low f scores Bright pulsing objects that emit bursts of light

10-16-2009, 02:29 PM	#3
ryan7783 I spend too much of my life on TPF! Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Richmond, VA Posts: 321 My Photos Are NOT OK to Edit Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts My Gallery: (0)	Quote: Originally Posted by Village Idiot Talk to the other photographer before you start doing anything. That's the plan __________________ http://www.phillipsphotography.org

10-16-2009, 03:33 PM	#4
Canosonic I spend too much of my life on TPF! Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Germany, Bonn Posts: 306 My Photos Are OK to Edit Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts My Gallery: (0)	Just cheering you up. Get a camera-minigun. Camera Mingun on Flickr - Photo Sharing! __________________ Never tell people how to do things. Tell them what to do, and they will surprise you with their ingenuity. G.Patton If you ask a question, you're a fool for 5 minutes, if you don't ask a question, you remain a fool for your life. 400D\| 10-20 f/4-5.6\| 18-55 f/3.5-5.6 \| 70-300 f/4-5.6 \| 50 f/1.8 Flickr I support the Pact. Irthosy Photography

10-16-2009, 07:28 PM	#5
KmH Image Maker Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Iowa Posts: 4,939 My Photos Are NOT OK to Edit Thanked 218 Times in 209 Posts My Gallery: (0)	Right off the bat: an online forum is the wrong place to be seeking legal advice because laws differ by state, county, and town. Most good wedding photographers have a mutual support arrangement with other competent photographers, so when a tragedy happens and they're not able to honor a commitment, a wedding has competent photographic coverage. It's possible the single replacement photographer has more skill, experience, better equipment and will do a better job than the hubby/wife team. It's entirely possible a 2 shooter team just wasn't available. If you're not an attorney, I would recommend being very careful drawing conclusions about contract language. I think were your friend to persue a breach-of-contract action in court, the out come would not be as certain as you seem to think it would be. Having you shoot at the wedding, could in fact, put the shoe on the other foot, and you and your friend could wind up being the one's breaching the contract. It's a truly an unfortunate situation for both parties but your friend needs to seek local, qualified legal advice, ASAP. __________________ » » » » » » » » » » Price Update 3/14/10: Nikon D60 w/grip « « « « « « « « « « « « « Sale ends 3/21/10 - price updated 3/14/10: Nikon AF-S 70-300 mm VR G » » » Keith. . . .NAPP member - referral link: https://www.photoshopuser.com/signup/?aid=luhgxq&code=friend Last edited by KmH; 10-17-2009 at 08:16 PM.

10-16-2009, 08:26 PM	#6
IgsEMT TPF Junkie! Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: NYC Posts: 1,373 My Photos Are NOT OK to Edit Thanked 66 Times in 63 Posts My Gallery: (0)	Ryan, Here's my 2cents... Generally speaking, studios work with number of photographers and we all have each other's back... meaning, if a buddy of mine calls me now saying that he is sick, I'll cover the gig for him. That is probably the case here. The fact that this guy isn't part of the studio Quote: They are sending 1 photographer NOT associated with their business but rather someone that they have worked with before. is irrelevant once again b/c he is probably a freelancer and IS covering for them. The only issue here is that contract is for two crews and they are getting one crew. Now, number of times, I've went on the job where people didn't even know that "studio owner" wasn't going to be there, it sux and isn't write but it is a reality of the business, what matters is that they get image quality that they signed up for. I'd assume that this back up photog knows is equally good if not better then the studio owners thus ideally, your friends shouldn't worry about anything. HOWEVER, THEY are paying for two crews thus if they are getting one crew, this should be deducted upon paying the balance. NOW THE LEGALITY of the matter KMH hit it on the money Quote: an online forum is the wrong place to be seeking legal advice because laws differ by state, county, and town. What I'd suggest your role to be in this case is optimism. Number of us told you same thing, pass that to your friends. They have to smile for their pictures and not worry about WHO EXACTLY is their photographer. They already pissed and there's no need to take it out on the guy who'll be there documenting their happy day. Tell them to enjoy their day and have fun with their friends and family. My wedding: we had 2 crew photog, one did formals, ceremony and reception and 2nd was concentrating on guests and printing 4x6 for them on the spot as a souvenir from us (B&G). My wedding album included images from 5-6 cameras, two above and guests with their SLRs and P&S. Therefore, ENJOY THE WEDDING

10-17-2009, 05:21 AM	#7
ryan7783 I spend too much of my life on TPF! Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Richmond, VA Posts: 321 My Photos Are NOT OK to Edit Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts My Gallery: (0)	I'm going but I'll be there as a "friend with a camera". He's not paying me so I don't see where this will be a problem. Dozens of people bring cameras to weddings... I'm just another one of them. The point of the 2 shooters was to have 1 in the balcony and 1 on the floor during the ceremony. Obviously 1 person can't be in two places at the same time so I'm shooting from the balcony. It's likely the other photographer won't even know I'm there. Maybe I didn't clarify that I'm NOT shooting the entire wedding as I would if I were the primary photographer. I'm just there to take pictures as a friend - I'm not doing business. He offered to pay me and I said no __________________ http://www.phillipsphotography.org Last edited by ryan7783; 10-17-2009 at 05:33 AM.

10-17-2009, 08:19 AM	#8
erphoto No longer a newbie, moving up! Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Ohio Posts: 26 My Photos Are OK to Edit Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts My Gallery: (0)	As a wedding photographer, I find the fact that they didn't take the opportunity to tell him they wouldn't be attending until HE called them a bit appalling. And yes, if they were contracted for 2 and they are only sending 1, then it should be deducted in the cost they paid. But that's just my opinion. I'd say if the pictures aren't up to snuff to the quality he was expecting he should explore his options... but it is rather upsetting that it will probably affect their day. I hope they are able to breath a sigh of relief knowing that you are there as a "friendly" back up. I shoot as lone shooter on all my weddings and if there is a balcony situation, I try to actually find a friend of the couple to shoot from the balcony if they want. They don't have to pay them and I don't either.

10-17-2009, 08:29 AM	#9
ryan7783 I spend too much of my life on TPF! Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Richmond, VA Posts: 321 My Photos Are NOT OK to Edit Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts My Gallery: (0)	Quote: Originally Posted by erphoto As a wedding photographer, I find the fact that they didn't take the opportunity to tell him they wouldn't be attending until HE called them a bit appalling. And yes, if they were contracted for 2 and they are only sending 1, then it should be deducted in the cost they paid. But that's just my opinion. I'd say if the pictures aren't up to snuff to the quality he was expecting he should explore his options... but it is rather upsetting that it will probably affect their day. I hope they are able to breath a sigh of relief knowing that you are there as a "friendly" back up. I shoot as lone shooter on all my weddings and if there is a balcony situation, I try to actually find a friend of the couple to shoot from the balcony if they want. They don't have to pay them and I don't either. The real messed up part about this whole thing is that they have fought tooth and nail on almost every aspect of the wedding process. Her dress was all wrong when it arrived and then, after weeks of arguing with and not being able to get in touch with the dress people, they finally got it to her only to have somehow stained it so it took her another 2 weeks to get them to fix that. Then their caterer bailed on them, the chair/table rental place double booked the chairs they wanted so they had to frantically choose another style of chair, and now it's raining so they have to move the whole outdoors set inside to a secondary, less attractive, venue. They've spent nearly $15,000 to get subpar service. __________________ http://www.phillipsphotography.org

10-17-2009, 08:35 AM	#10
erphoto No longer a newbie, moving up! Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Ohio Posts: 26 My Photos Are OK to Edit Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts My Gallery: (0)	Awww man. That really blows. It's literally been falling apart since the beginning.

10-17-2009, 10:27 AM	#11
chakalakasp Been spending a lot of time on here! Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 141 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post My Gallery: (0)	Elope! Elope! __________________ Ryan McGinnis http://bigstormpicture.com VORTEX-2 image licensing at vortex-2.com Stock Photography at Getty

10-17-2009, 07:22 PM	#12
ryan7783 I spend too much of my life on TPF! Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Richmond, VA Posts: 321 My Photos Are NOT OK to Edit Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts My Gallery: (0)	So I got there and went straight to the balcony. After the ceremony I went downstairs and only got a few pictures at random times. The other photographer and I started talking and she was super cool about everything. She even asked me to take a look at her primary camera because it had stopped working (Mirror had stuck) but she had a backup camera. So we spoke for 10-15 minutes while everyone was eating and then exchanged business cards. I only got about 80 pictures. I took IgsEMT's advice and enjoyed the wedding. I spent less time worrying about pictures and more time enjoying the bacon wrapped scallops. __________________ http://www.phillipsphotography.org

10-17-2009, 08:15 PM	#13
KmH Image Maker Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Iowa Posts: 4,939 My Photos Are NOT OK to Edit Thanked 218 Times in 209 Posts My Gallery: (0)	So the stand in photographer was using Canon gear huh? __________________ » » » » » » » » » » Price Update 3/14/10: Nikon D60 w/grip « « « « « « « « « « « « « Sale ends 3/21/10 - price updated 3/14/10: Nikon AF-S 70-300 mm VR G » » » Keith. . . .NAPP member - referral link: https://www.photoshopuser.com/signup/?aid=luhgxq&code=friend

10-18-2009, 04:49 AM	#14
ryan7783 I spend too much of my life on TPF! Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Richmond, VA Posts: 321 My Photos Are NOT OK to Edit Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts My Gallery: (0)	Quote: Originally Posted by KmH So the stand in photographer was using Canon gear huh? Yup. I'm a Nikon guy myself but almost every photographer I know personally uses Canon. Even my wife uses Canon...The first digital camera I ever bought was a Nikon D60 - used it for about 3 weeks, returned it and bought a Canon 40D - used THAT for about 3 days and went and bought myself a Nikon D300. That was 2.5 years ago and I couldn't be happier with it. __________________ http://www.phillipsphotography.org

10-18-2009, 05:09 AM	#15
UUilliam Photography student Join Date: May 2009 Location: Glasgow Posts: 1,104 My Photos Are OK to Edit Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts My Gallery: (0)	Quote: Originally Posted by KmH So the stand in photographer was using Canon gear huh? Oh you!! I must admit, My mirror has stuck once, A simple on/off/on job done the trick __________________ W I L L I A M Recuva - Lost files? get them back easily and for free! I agree to the Pact Request a tutorial (provide your image too.) Don't take all my advice as hard fact, you should do a little further research on what I say before accepting it as I am still learning myself therefore I may give wrong or bad advice but I do my best to give what I have picked up so far. Gear\|Canon 450D\|18-55mm f3.5-5.6\|75-300mm USM f4.5-5.6\|50mm II f1.8\|Opteka 500-1000mm mirror\| Accessories\|Manfrotto 680B Monopod\|484RC2 Ball head\|EOS 450D camera armor\|16gb + 8gb SDcard\|2x UV filter\|Macro filter\|Rocket blower\|3x mini tripods\|BG-E5 Battery grip + remote control\|Konig KN-Tripod35\|

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