Decent Lighting / Low Cost for Intimate Model Shoot

[JMASTERJ]

Hi all, noob here and excited to have found a nice place!

Anyways, I have a good eye for photo taking, but I just dont have great equipment. I am about to get in the business of needing to photo some model for a web portfolio, some model shots, some product shots while they are wearing something, for intimate wear, so the setting will usually be like on a bed in a small room with little or no daylight. I am thinking of using some satin/nylon sheets/drapes as the bed cover and backdrop, and colors are still up for grabs.

I can invest in any real camera right now... just have a compact (I know please dont kill me, but this is just for the web for now!!! no print or hi-res!) Lumix 10mp (is there a section here where I can learn more about this camera to maximize my results?). I of course have a tripod, I will get a better camera as soon as I can afford it, but for my purpose right now, I think lighting is much more important, am I wrong?

Anyways, my questions are:

1) How much difference will the backdrops and bed sheet colors/material (shiny satin vs like cotton, but satin looks so sexy) make in the overall lighting of the subject and complexity for good results?

2) How much should I realistically spend on lighting, that can maybe be upgradeable later? I am assuming I wont need to buy a different tripod once I get a couple, just better bulbs maybe? Or reflectors/umbrellas? I was thinking this is a great deal for me right now on eBay for $50 shipped:

3x 45w Photography 33" Umbrella Complete Photo Studio Lighting Kit Vedio Light

ANY advice would help me out tremendously... and I know I could probably read for the next 2 years on how to photograph models, but any general thoughts for this situation would be great. Thanks!!!

[Ads]

[ZapoTeX]

Sorry to disappoint you, but it takes years or at least months of practice before you can take glamour photos that at least remind you of what you see on the Internet, it's not stuff you improvise. Even if you don't print and even if you keep them low resolution, it takes a lot of practice to get anything good.

Anyway, assuming you're willing to work hard, be patient and are aware of the limitations your camera implies, you can still have your share of fun and learn a lot about lighting even with a Point and Shoot, assuming it has manual controls. If you can't set time, aperture and flash power manually, you can't do anything at all. This is the first thing you need to check.

Next step is to read this: Strobist: Lighting 101

This is considered by many the bible of lighting (at least for beginners). Make sure you read it carefully and understand it well. Whenever you don't understand anything, you MUST pause, google for the stuff that tripped you, practice it with your camera and then continue reading. Aperture, shutter speed, stops (or, equivalently, EVs), white balance, exposure metering, ISOs and stuff like that must become your native language.

I don't want to sound like I'm trying to discourage you, but lighting is fairly technical. Having a good eye will be of great help after you know the basics of the technique, but first comes the hard work.

As small anticipation of what you'll find on the link I gave you, here are some answers:

1) How much difference will the backdrops and bed sheet colors/material (shiny satin vs like cotton, but satin looks so sexy) make in the overall lighting of the subject and complexity for good results?

Huge difference. The smaller the room the bigger the difference. Stay away from any color other than white and black, otherwise white balance will become a nightmare

How much should I realistically spend on lighting, that can maybe be upgradeable later? I am assuming I wont need to buy a different tripod once I get a couple, just better bulbs maybe? Or reflectors/umbrellas? I was thinking this is a great deal for me right now on eBay for $50 shipped:

The kit you mentioned DOES NOT include the flash itself... And 33" is a little small for full body photos. Also, umbrellas are not great for small rooms, the strobist blog will explain you why. EDIT: now I see it does include continuous lights: very very weak, hardly useful at all.

Personally, depending on your needs, I would either hire a photographer or shoot in a room with natural light from a window. You'll get to see the results before you shoot, which is impossible with a flash.

Have fun!

[Designer]

The lights shown appear to be fluorescent, which can work, but your camera might not be able to automatically balance the color. Do you have post-processing software? The "600 watt" rating may be the equivalent rating. Presumably the "power supply" is an extension cord. Given all the ambiguity in the ad, and the fact that the writer can't spell "video", I think I would be looking for a different deal.

Yes, lighting is important, but if you can't afford better equipment, use the camera you have, the light you can find, and learn the fundamentals of photography.

[Tee]

Be very careful and mindful of your background if you're going to use a sheet. Very few people can pull it off as it usually ends up being a distraction to the viewer (wrinkles, cheesy-ness). Put some distance between your subject and the sheet if you're going that route or you'll end up here. If money is an issue, consider renting the appropriate gear. Lastly, check out videos on YouTube- there's a ton of tutorials for basic lighting.

[cgipson1]

Sorry to disappoint you, but it takes years or at least months of practice before you can take glamour photos that at least remind you of what you see on the Internet, it's not stuff you improvise. Even if you don't print and even if you keep them low resolution, it takes a lot of practice to get anything good.

Anyway, assuming you're willing to work hard, be patient and are aware of the limitations your camera implies, you can still have your share of fun and learn a lot about lighting even with a Point and Shoot, assuming it has manual controls. If you can't set time, aperture and flash power manually, you can't do anything at all. This is the first thing you need to check.

Next step is to read this: Strobist: Lighting 101

This is considered by many the bible of lighting (at least for beginners). Make sure you read it carefully and understand it well. Whenever you don't understand anything, you MUST pause, google for the stuff that tripped you, practice it with your camera and then continue reading. Aperture, shutter speed, stops (or, equivalently, EVs), white balance, exposure metering, ISOs and stuff like that must become your native language.

I don't want to sound like I'm trying to discourage you, but lighting is fairly technical. Having a good eye will be of great help after you know the basics of the technique, but first comes the hard work.

As small anticipation of what you'll find on the link I gave you, here are some answers:

1) How much difference will the backdrops and bed sheet colors/material (shiny satin vs like cotton, but satin looks so sexy) make in the overall lighting of the subject and complexity for good results?

Huge difference. The smaller the room the bigger the difference. Stay away from any color other than white and black, otherwise white balance will become a nightmare

How much should I realistically spend on lighting, that can maybe be upgradeable later? I am assuming I wont need to buy a different tripod once I get a couple, just better bulbs maybe? Or reflectors/umbrellas? I was thinking this is a great deal for me right now on eBay for $50 shipped:

The kit you mentioned DOES NOT include the flash itself... And 33" is a little small for full body photos. Also, umbrellas are not great for small rooms, the strobist blog will explain you why. EDIT: now I see it does include continuous lights: very very weak, hardly useful at all.

Personally, depending on your needs, I would either hire a photographer or shoot in a room with natural light from a window. You'll get to see the results before you shoot, which is impossible with a flash.

Have fun!

Those lights are a total waste of time..... constant lights do not have enough output for general photography (unless you spend BIG bucks, or use something really hot like halogen). That is 600 watts per second... and how many 1 second exposures are you going to do? Say you shoot at 1/100 of a second... now you have 1/100 of 600 watts. Do the math! And for that money this kit has to be junk!

I agree with Zapotex.... even if you buy decent lighting... it will probably take you years to do a decent shot (that looks anywhere near professional)! If it was as easy as you seem to think it is, every one would be doing it! lol!

[Buckster]

That light kit you linked to will not work for still-shooting people or anything else that moves or breaths or twitches. It can only be used for video or still life stuff that won't move at all while you make long exposures.

Stay away from the continuous lighting setups (fluorescent bulbs). At the very least, you need cheap and weak strobes and modifiers. Even cheap Chinese Ebay strobe kits will work much better than the continuous light kit you linked to. Search for "2 studio strobe light kit" without the quotes, or "3 studio strobe light kit", but that will be more expensive, and it looks like you're trying to do this on the cheap.

In that same price range, there's also Cowboy Studio stuff: Pro Three Strobe Softbox Flash MonoLight Lighting kits with Barndoor, Reflector and Case which a few people here will freak out over me even recommending, especially a couple of die-hard Cowboy Studio bashers who've never actually used it and have no actual first-hand experience with it, but plenty of noobs such as yourself are just fine with it. It's not great gear (which you won't find in your price range no matter what) but it works.

You'll still need to learn how to use them though, and that's where Strobist link posted earlier comes in for some basic (and free) understanding.

[KmH]

↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ Good advice there. Does your 'compact' camera have a flash hot shoe?

Because you have to be able to sync strobed light to the camera shutter, but you don't have to sync using constant lights. However, constant lights that are bright enough will also make the model hot, which tends to f'up the makeup.

There are very few working models. Modeling is one of the rarest jobs on the planet. There are maybe 1500 full time models in the USA.

[jamesbjenkins]

In that same price range, there's also Cowboy Studio stuff: Pro Three Strobe Softbox Flash MonoLight Lighting kits with Barndoor, Reflector and Case which a few people here will freak out over me even recommending, especially a couple of die-hard Cowboy Studio bashers who've never actually used it and have no actual first-hand experience with it, but plenty of noobs such as yourself are just fine with it. It's not great gear (which you won't find in your price range no matter what) but it works.

You'll still need to learn how to use them though, and that's where Strobist link posted earlier comes in for some basic (and free) understanding.

Hahah, you can count me in the "hardcore CS bashers" crowd, although I have actually used them a while back. They truly are the very very bottom of the barrel.

That said, for somebody who has zero understanding of lighting technique, they probably won't appreciate the differences between CS and the better options for quite a while. And, as Buckster said, with your budget, there's nothing that will be much better.

Good luck, and keep posting here. There's a ton of good information and (some) helpful people!

[JMASTERJ]

Wow, what a response, thanks guys!!! (One thing, I think this site needs a multi-quote button!)

BTW this is the camera I have, not sure if the specs will mean anything but just in case: Panasonic Lumix

As I said, these are fairly low-res web photos and they are not for Saks or even Macys. Although I never had much experience with "real" cameras, I have taken tons of photos with point and shoots with decent success. I am a professional graphics and web designer so editing it afterwards is no problem. But I understand taking photos of human bodies is different than regular product photos of bikes or chicken wings, but the emphasis is really only on the apparel, not the model's face etc... (think a Victoria Secret image from just stomach to thighs or stomach to neck) but I am willing to learn and do whatever it takes for now because we cannot afford to pay for a pro, which is the reason I am here... if I could afford that this would be all moot, but I have loved photography ever since I took the class in high school taking a still photo with a shoebox and developing in the dark room manually in the smelly stuff. I do have a great eye, and am also an IT professional, so I am sure I will pick this up fairly quickly, not enough to be a pro Donald Trump wedding photographer, but enough for some decent looking web product photos.

Now it seems most are in agreement that ebay stuff/constant on light is just a waste, which is fine. I dont mind spending a little more. But the strobe may be a problem as someone else said, and my Lumix does NOT have a flash port, only a mini-HDMI and an A/V Digital slot. So doesnt that mean I cant use strobe or flash? I know anything worthwhile in real cameras cost upwards from 1k to ludicrous $$$, and I just cant afford that now... I can borrow a friend's but that would not work going forward to take a lot.

Sorry to disappoint you, but it takes years or at least months of practice before you can take glamour photos...

__________________________________________________ ____________________________________

The lights shown appear to be fluorescent, which can work, but your camera might not be able to automatically balance the color. Do you have post-processing software? The "600 watt" rating may be the equivalent rating. Presumably the "power supply" is an extension cord. Given all the ambiguity in the ad, and the fact that the writer can't spell "video", I think I would be looking for a different deal.

Yes, lighting is important, but if you can't afford better equipment, use the camera you have, the light you can find, and learn the fundamentals of photography.

I have noticed on eBay that spelling etc. may seem shady but that doesnt necessarily mean they are selling bad products, but their seller ratings much more important... now if this product wont serve my needs, thats a whole another story... but either way from what I read here, I will not be getting that, but still looking...
__________________________________________________ ____________________________________

Be very careful and mindful of your background if you're going to use a sheet. Very few people can pull it off as it usually ends up being a distraction to the viewer (wrinkles, cheesy-ness). Put some distance between your subject and the sheet if you're going that route or you'll end up here. If money is an issue, consider renting the appropriate gear. Lastly, check out videos on YouTube- there's a ton of tutorials for basic lighting.

Thanks, and yes Youtube will def be on my to do list, but this is a better, more efficient start here!
__________________________________________________ ____________________________________

That light kit you linked to will not work for still-shooting people or anything else that moves or breaths or twitches. It can only be used for video or still life stuff that won't move at all while you make long exposures.

Stay away from the continuous lighting setups (fluorescent bulbs). At the very least, you need cheap and weak strobes and modifiers. Even cheap Chinese Ebay strobe kits will work much better than the continuous light kit you linked to. Search for "2 studio strobe light kit" without the quotes, or "3 studio strobe light kit", but that will be more expensive, and it looks like you're trying to do this on the cheap.

↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ Good advice there. Does your 'compact' camera have a flash hot shoe?

Because you have to be able to sync strobed light to the camera shutter, but you don't have to sync using constant lights. However, constant lights that are bright enough will also make the model hot, which tends to f'up the makeup.

There are very few working models. Modeling is one of the rarest jobs on the planet. There are maybe 1500 full time models in the USA.

No hot shoe so...... ?
And I am in the entertainment industry and well aware of the business, but that is irrelevant in this case, no one is trying to be a model!
__________________________________________________ ____________________________________

In that same price range, there's also Cowboy Studio stuff: Pro Three Strobe Softbox Flash MonoLight Lighting kits with Barndoor, Reflector and Case

Hahah, you can count me in the "hardcore CS bashers" crowd, although I have actually used them a while back. They truly are the very very bottom of the barrel.

That said, for somebody who has zero understanding of lighting technique, they probably won't appreciate the differences between CS and the better options for quite a while.

Good luck, and keep posting here. There's a ton of good information and (some) helpful people!

Yes this is a great place, and as far as appreciating good lighting, as a graphics designer for over a decade, I do have high standards for images etc... so I will notice differences, but in my case, this is weighing what I "need" + what I can afford right now over being totally anal through every pixel and hue. I can go to Walmart.com and criticize their photos for something, but then again, they are pulling in billions in revenue. So until I can make enough to pay for a photographer or by that time buy a real camera and real top end solutions, I need to know if I should:

1. Buy a better constant on light (not strobe)
2. Get the cheapest decent camera I can afford and then get like a $100-$200 2 light strobe kit (will really hurt financially and I dont think I can do this)

OR, and I think I still have this, what about using a film camera? I still have my old Canon AE-1 Program, and if they still sell film, I can use that, but then I would still have to convert that to digital so maybe that's not worth it either... sigh... that was a nice camera, I loved using it.

For continuous lights, is it bad still if I get higher powered bulbs, like 100W+ for each? Or even higher? Natural light is almost impossible the way the room is setup, and is on the north side window with a brown backdrop, almost no usable light at all.

As for facts that I have learned, I guess I'll stick with maybe at least a satin white bg on the bed and backdrop, keep it simple and less cheesy... yes in this case, simple and professional is much better than trying too hard and looking cheesy. Thanks guys!

[KmH]

The site has a multi quote button, in the lower left corner of each post - looks like - "+

[JMASTERJ]

The site has a multi quote butto,, in the lower left corner of each post - looks like - "+

What the heck, I SWEAR that wasn't there before, hmmmmmm.... oh well, next time.

[ZapoTeX]

No hot shoe so...... ?

No big deal. Make sure the flash you buy has a servo mode OR buy a hot-shoe optical trigger (one a buck on Ebay). You won't shoot in daylight (because optical triggers suck in daylight) but indoor it works great. Just keep the on-camera flash at minimum power, so that it does not affect your photo (unless you need some fill light).

I suggest you buy this flash:
Midwest Photo Exchange LumoPro LP160 Quad Sync Manual Flash

and this kit:
Amazon.com: Polaroid Pro Studio 8' Air-Cushioned Heavy Duty Light Stand + Polaroid 43" White Translucent Umbrella + Polaroid Shoe Mount Umbrella Adapter: Camera & Photo

If you want to spend a little more on the kit, you'll get more even and controlled lighting if you replace the above link with this:
Amazon.com: Westcott 43" Apollo Orb Speedlite Kit: Camera & Photo

Total is 220 USD in the first case and 310 in the second.

And take my advice, be prepared for A LOT, A HUGE LOT of photographing oranges, melons, reading internet tutorials (especially the one I linked) and watching Youtube videos about glamour photos.

As a geek myself, I can assure you that being an IT guy will help you understand that stuff (I did an Excel sheet with logarithms to understand what an F-stop is and an I wrote code simulating light hitting an object before I really felt comfortable with the definition of hard vs. soft light... but that's another story), but grasping the theory is not everything. I've been reading tutorials for 3 months or so, but every time I convince a friend to pose for me for an hour or so (it happened about three times up to now), I'm EXTREMELY disappointed of the results.

An advice I can give you: pick the LARGEST room you can find. Small rooms suck for learning. You get a ton of light reflected back and forth between the walls and it mixes in the direct light from your umbrella. As my place is not huge and all walls are white, I've tried convincing a friend to pose for me in the night in an uncrowded location, so that there would be no reflection. But guess what... girls are not comfortable giving smiles and sexy looks in deserted places in the middle of the night... Can you blame them? :-)

Ciao & good luck!

[Buckster]

On the no hot shoe problem, there's the possibility of using the camera's flash to trigger the slaves built into the off camera lights, though you'll have to be careful about it lighting your set in a bad way. Perhaps the use of a small flag and mirror system could divert the flash to one or both of the off camera flashes, and also away from the scene you're shooting.

A bit of DIY action with something like this: Amazon.com: Seagull SYK-5 Wireless Remote Flash Slave Trigger with Red Eye Reduction: Camera & Photo taped over the camera's flash, then use the PC sync port on it to connect to a wireless remote trigger, like this: Amazon.com: Yongnuo RF-603 C1 2.4GHz Wireless Flash Trigger/Wireless Shutter Release Transceiver Kit for Canon Rebel 300D/350D/400D/450D/500D/550D/1000D Series: Camera & Photo using a cable like this: Amazon.com: ePhoto PC2PC 12-Inch Male to Male Flash PC Sync Cable Cord: Electronics would sync the external flashes without affecting the scene, but you'd want to be careful that covering the flash like that wouldn't cause it to overheat and melt something.

Trying to do this on the cheap, without getting a proper D/SLR to shoot with, is going to be painful, I think.

[ZapoTeX]

PS: I could not download the manual of your camera... I have no idea whether it has manual settings. That's KEY for what you're trying to do. No manual, no party.

[ZapoTeX]

Oops... I checked...
http://service.us.panasonic.com/OPERMANPDF/DMCZS1.PDF
No manual mode and no way (that I could see) to adjust exposure (aperture and shutter speed) manually. I'm afraid you're out of luck.

I suggest a really old SLR. You can get a Nikon D40 with AF kit lens for less than the flash will cost you. Image quality far superior than the Lumix. No other way that I can see from the manual