The Pact

[manaheim]

I'm going to make a bit of a rogue suggestion here that we write up a bit of a pact for people dedicated to some level of quality in the halls of TPF. This is just a draft, and I'm very open to edits. Consider this revision 1.

My thought is that those of us who are into this commit to the pact by signing this and putting a big bold link to this in their sig, and this becomes our modus operandi, regardless of whether or not it will make "everyone happy".

Maybe this is too extreme. I dunno. It seems like this is the way the forum ran before, and it seems like people want it back that way, so I figured I'd take a shot at it... as stated in the pact... be direct and honest with your criticism.

1. Giving Critique
   
   • Critique is given to help people become better photographers, artists, and occasionally business people.
   • I will offer honest critique when it is asked for.
   • I will critique the work, not the person.
   • I will not hesitate to be direct.
   • I will not hold back critique, even if feelings may be hurt.
   • If a shot has fundamental flaws, I will not hesitate to say so.
   • I will offer both technical and artistic critique when possible.
   • I will respect the requestors wishes if specified (such as if they only want technical critique)
   • Summary comments along the lines of "I like it!" or "Great job!" or "It sucks!" do no one any good and will be avoided at all costs. Opinions must be expressed with reasons and analysis.
   • Lastly, I will make a reasonable effort not to hurt feelings, but not at the cost of sacrificing the aforementioned statements.
2. Accepting Critique
   
   • Critique is given to help people become better photographers, artists, and occasionally business people.
   • I will accept critique graciously.
   • I may not agree with or use all that I receive, but I will still but I will still take into consideration all critique provided.
   • I will actively and openly discuss critique so received.
   • When appropriate, I will challenge those who critique me to gain a better understanding.
   • I will not attempt to discredit or insult those who would take the time to provide any form of critique.
   • I will not discount opinions without serious consideration.
3. Know Theyself
   
   • I hereby acknowledge that I am not Ansel Adams.
   • I will be mindful of my own skill level when speaking with others and actively point out where I am speaking of things I am not totally certain of.
   • I acknowledge that no matter how good I am, there is always going to be someone better out there, and there is always going to be something else to learn.
4. A Committment to Community
   
   • I am a part of this community and therefore a stakeholder in it and will act as such.
   • Anyone who acts shoddily on this forum is a detriment to this community. I will take it upon myself to make polite comments to those people and (in extreme cases) report them to the moderators if appropriate.
   • I will actively participate in trying to redirect discussions to improve the quality of discourse.
   • I will actively suggest and promote changes to the community to make it better.
5. Response to Smarm (Antagonism/Ingratiation/etc.) (I like the word "smarm")
   
   • If someone rails at a response where I am adhering to this pact, I will point them to this pact and suggest that they read it.
   • If someone rails at me and I deserve it, I'll apologize and correct my behavior.
   • I will do my best not to get involved in flame wars.
   • I will give everyone at least one chance to take back what they said or correct their approach.
   • If all else fails, I will actively employ the ignore feature and move on with my life.

Did I miss anything?

[Ads]

[fwellers]

Thanks for the thread. I think I'll take the opportunity to reply since you asked. :-)

My thought is that those of us who are into this commit to the pact by signing this and putting it in their sig ...

It's got potential as a sticky or something. I sure wouldn't want to see that on the end of everybody's posts ( in their sig ). My fingers would fall off from all the scrolling.

Summary comments along the lines of "I like it!" or "Great job!" or "It sucks!" do no one any good and will be avoided at all costs. Opinions must be expressed with reasons and analysis.

I would put it more along this line:
It's ok to express positive feelings about a picture such as "I like it" or "Great job", but it's better to make an effort to include at least one reason why you like it. That actually helps you as much as the OP.

Anyone who acts shoddily on this forum is a detriment to this community. I will take it upon myself to make polite comments to those people and/or report them to the moderators as necessary.

Just a personal opinion here, but I don't like reporting people, or people who report people. I wouldn't want to agree to that one. The first part ( make a polite comment to them ) yea, but not the second part.
I find that mostly a juicy comment or two here and there can keep things from getting too boring, but the best way to avoid letting a thread go to the dogs is to ignore the poor behavior and move on.


I think you number 5 section is the best. right on just as it is.

[SpeedTrap]

I like it!

[farmerj]

that 4000 posts thing is eating at you?

What you have written is well done, but it should be "common" sense. I think we are realizing that it really is "rare" sense though.

No pact should be needed if you just do what is right, and do it with courtesy and respect.

[Joves]

This should be stickied in the Beginners area. With the title of Before asking for C&C Please read this first.

[musicaleCA]

This should be stickied in the Beginners area. With the title of Before asking for C&C Please read this first.

Indeed, but you know what, I like the idea. A little link in our sigs could do a world of good for newbies (I've been here for two months and I'm talking about newbies; crazy). Maybe it'll catch someone's eye and encourage them to provide more meaningful critique.

So, here is just a bit of rewording (I'm going to use letters to denote the line after each section number, and that's something else I'd like to see; easier to reference material that's well-organized):

2.c I may not agree with or use all that I receive, but I will still take into consideration all critique provided in line with §1.

2.e When appropriate, I will challenge those who critique me to gain a better understanding.

2.f I will not attempt to discredit or insult those who <snip> take the time to provide any form of critique, regardless of §1.

4.b Anyone who acts shoddily on this forum is a detriment to this community. I will take it upon myself to make polite, non-inflammatory comments toward those people and/or report them to the moderators as necessary. I not act in such a manner.

5. Smarm? Really? I had to look that up; bloody Brits. How about Response to Smarm/Ingratiation/Antagonism?

Oh, and sorry if my language took at turn for the legalease guys. I think my legalease turned on for a moment.

[kundalini]

1. 
   
   • I may notagree with or use all that I receive, but I will still listen.

I sure wouldn't want to see that on the end of everybody's posts ( in their sig ). My fingers would fall off from all the scrolling. .

A link would suffice.



For Chris's eyes only.

[kundalini]

Stupid new feature for youtube vids....... kills all the surprise.

[fwellers]

Stupid new feature for youtube vids....... kills all the surprise.

Gotta love that sig of yours Kundalini.

[manaheim]

Without getting into multi-quote hell...

1. ooo... styx... now if I just had SOUND on this machine.
2. Music- nice edits (and there were some other good ones earlier as well, I'll try to incorporate those later tonight)
3. Yes, I meant put it as a link in your sig and to post the link to people occasionally if they are going against the pact... even if they haven't agreed to it. They must succumb!
4. Farmer... as you kinda eluded to... common sense is anything but common.

[EhJsNe]

Just a few questions...and comments....before I add this to my signiture...because I agree with most....but not all...and some changes to this (not HUGE) to make it kinda better...idk......

"I will not agree with or use all that I receive, but I will still listen"

I think that should be changed to MAY or MIGHT NOT agree....

"Lastly, I will make a reasonable effort not to hurt feelings, but not at the cost of sacrificing the aforementioned statements."

I think it should be "I will make a reasonable effort to not hurt feelings, but if I feel I may hurt feelings...include something such as "not to be taken personaly" or something like that before the comment....that one ist a big deal to me...it can stay how it is....I would do that anyway...

I will challenge those who critique me to gain a better understanding.

Could this one be explained to me? I dont quite get what it means.

and towards the bottom...what exactly do you mean by "rail"....im geting the context clues, but I cant find a certain definition of the word as you used it.

and last but not least....what exactly does the ignore feature do? Do the comments and posts they post not appear to me...or can they just not send me private messeges?

[musicaleCA]

Re the last quote: I interpret that to mean that should you not understand why someone is offering a particular critique or opinion, to ask the why they have that opinion, and given their more in-depth explanation, you learn.

"Rail" is slang for attacking, yelling, raging belligerently at someone, or otherwise flaming.

Ignore should just block people's posts and PM's, but I believe you still have the option to see what someone you've ignored has said, if you so choose. I wouldn't know for sure; haven't used it here yet, but that's what I've seen on other vBulletin boards.

[Onion]

This is like a bunch of nine year olds playing in a fort. When is the part where you spit in each other's hands and swear to be blood brothers for life? Then some kid named mickey reaches under the mattress and brings out a crumpled magazine full of porn. Somebody yells out freestyle! Then it's all the pacting you can handle.

[kundalini]

This .....

I'm still trying to figure out who you are, but in the meatime, could you please refrain from contributing in this thread. IMO, there has been strides made within this thread to hopefully get this forum back on track. The comments such as you have made thus far within this thread serve no genuine purpose towards that goal and do nothing towards that end.

In other words, could you please kindly phuque off.

[Onion]

This .....

I'm still trying to figure out who you are, but in the meatime, could you please refrain from contributing in this thread. IMO, there has been strides made within this thread to hopefully get this forum back on track. The comments such as you have made thus far within this thread serve no genuine purpose towards that goal and do nothing towards that end.

In other words, could you please kindly phuque off.

The forum is fine just as it is. Where else can a noob ask basic questions? This pact is silly.