Famed B&H Photo hit with discrimination suit

schumionbike · 11-22-2009, 03:20 PM

yes, stranger things have happen. I forgot the name of the case, but there was a case that made it up to the supreme court regarding unconscienability. The damages was like $500 buck. If I was BH, definitely prove your innocent otherwise this kind of things happen again.

**KmH** · 11-22-2009, 05:03 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by schumionbike

well BH Photo have plenty of money,

As they say, money doesn't grow on trees. Where do you think B&H gets all that money?

Plato · 11-22-2009, 05:43 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by DennyCrane

Precedent exists with Muslim banks in America offering "Sharia banking services" that are "compatible with Islamic law."

I have no clue what constitutes "Sharia banking services." How do these services conflict with U.S. law if, in fact, they do so?

DennyCrane · 11-22-2009, 06:00 PM

Have you heard of the internet? You can search for things there!

**inTempus** · 11-22-2009, 06:02 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by jbylake

Quote: Originally Posted by inTempus

I would say let them have their day in court before you condemn them. If they lose their case or if they settle out of court to make it go away, then make your mind up as to if you will do business with them or not. The filing of a civil suit doesn't mean automatic guilt.

Absolutely. However, I wouldn't condemn them if they settled out of court.
That does not imply guilt. Lawyers often hire other legal experts who do risk assessment. They assess the risk of winning or losing the case, and the possible costs involved. Then they will begin a bargaining process, in other words, determining if it is worth taking your chance in court, or just paying to make it go away. It has nothing to do with guilt or innocence.
You can sue a chicken, so that means nothing in itself.

If they go to court and the evidence is overwhelming enough to sway a jury, then they will be "proven" innocent or guilty.

J.

I don't believe I said that settling out of court was an admission of guilt. Like you, I said "make it go away". In other words, let the process of litigation complete before making up your mind as to what you want to do. The reason? Because people can sue for anything. Just because you get sued doesn't mean you've done something wrong.

CW Jones · 11-22-2009, 06:42 PM

another case of 4 people looking for the "easy" way out in life. Suing.

I'm not taking a side here, but if your unhappy at a job and are "trying to support a family" on $9 an hour maybe its time to look for a new job... Wait that would be work tho, nvm we will just sue......

DennyCrane · 11-22-2009, 07:07 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by DennyCrane

Have you heard of the internet? You can search for things there!

Quote: Originally Posted by fnauyasas

I think you should search on google. it is the best tool. Any idea?
Great info! Really informative. It is helpful for me.
Yaaa... I am here to share with you. Great info!!!

My sarcasm has caused a spam 'bot to come here. I take responsibility for this.

CW Jones · 11-22-2009, 07:12 PM

hahaah way to go Denny haha

schumionbike · 11-22-2009, 08:28 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by KmH

Quote: Originally Posted by schumionbike

well BH Photo have plenty of money,

As they say, money doesn't grow on trees. Where do you think B&H gets all that money?

Why does that matter? If they can afford to defend themselves and win, well, that'll be the end of it and no one else would bother suing since they know their chances of wining are slim. If they settle, they probably know that either the case have some merit and the trial might get messy or that their chances of winning this one isn't high. So yes, if they settle, I'll judge them for that too. That's the only point I was making.

Ideally you don't make judgemnt as to guilt when people settle as you want to discourage litigation but this is not a slip on a bananna peel case.

DennyCrane · 11-22-2009, 08:37 PM

I agree. Capitulate once and they'll be on you forever. If B&H are in the right, they should fight this one out.

Joves · 11-23-2009, 02:02 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Plato

Quote: Originally Posted by DennyCrane

Precedent exists with Muslim banks in America offering "Sharia banking services" that are "compatible with Islamic law."

I have no clue what constitutes "Sharia banking services." How do these services conflict with U.S. law if, in fact, they do so?

Depends on whose version of Shari Law it is. Some read the law the same as the B&H where women are delegated to only certain tasks. So they too could potentially face suits as well. Also the Shari banks would discriminate on basis of religon or lack thereof because, of other religons and atheists being infidels.
As I look at it, it is B&Hs business and, they should be able to run it as they please. If they dont want to hire or promote someone it is their business. You either choose to do business with them or you dont.

Village Idiot · 11-23-2009, 03:24 PM

What ever. Famed B&H Photo is still getting my money.

craig · 11-23-2009, 07:41 PM

I remember when I was a young photography student in NYC. We visited B&H's little store in teams because there is safety in numbers. Those guys were really mean. They were not as bad as the guys at the color lab or the bike messengers that I literally ran into. And no one was as mean as the the deli owners up the street from my apartment. You know what; I continued to frequent all of those places during my 9 years in Manhattan and Brooklyn. Often giving them a hard time right back.

The stories I read were void of any real facts, but I hope the truth will come out. Here in the U.S I feel that justice is a game where the criminals are the ones wearing suits and ties. If I have beef with an employer I confront them. If negotiations go south I leave. Of course I can only speak for myself. I am a white man with a family. If I was a Latino women with a family things would of course be slightly different.

Personally I feel that the case is unjustified. I am sure they were mean and I am sure they do not want women on the sales force. Fact of the matter is it is their business. I want to see peace and equality more then anyone. The work place is not like that. The work place is a dictatorship and that is the way it should be.

Love & Bass

schumionbike · 11-23-2009, 08:38 PM

A lot of bussiness practices in this world are criminalized, and discrimination base on race and gender shouldn't be any different. Child labors, prostitution, mononoply, drug trade, insider trading, fraud, and so on,.... If this is kind of discrimination is going on in a family, I woudn't care, it might be a disfunctional family that's not anyone business. A work place is much bigger in scale and affect the public in much more dramatic ways. Therefore their action is and should be regulate in some ways to that the public is protected.
Is the damages worth 7 million in this case? probably not, there's always punitive damages though.

benhasajeep · 11-24-2009, 02:56 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by CW Jones

I'm not taking a side here, but if your unhappy at a job and are "trying to support a family" on $9 an hour maybe its time to look for a new job... Wait that would be work tho, nvm we will just sue......

Thats exactialy what the one woman was doing. Trying to get a better paying position! And why should she have to look for a job elsewhere if her current company is hiring for higher paying positions??? The fact is women do get discriminated against. Now it's not as bad as it used to be years ago. But discrimination is alive and well all over (some situations reverse discrimination is an issue). And without trying to sound bad. Certain relegions absolutely forbid women to work certain jobs (and they try to do that in the US, where it is illegal deppending on how you look at the laws). The only people that know for sure what's going on is the people involved and the store! There are alot of people that use the legal system to make an easy buck. And there are alot of people who are just fed up and sue.

Nobody knows, and may not know if they settle out of court and have anti-disclosure rules applied (as they normally do).

11-22-2009, 03:20 PM	#31
schumionbike TPF Junkie! Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 1,026 My Photos Are OK to Edit Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts My Gallery: (0)	yes, stranger things have happen. I forgot the name of the case, but there was a case that made it up to the supreme court regarding unconscienability. The damages was like $500 buck. If I was BH, definitely prove your innocent otherwise this kind of things happen again. __________________ Visit my Flickr!!! http://www.flickr.com/photos/khaihoanmonphotography/

11-22-2009, 05:03 PM	#32
KmH Image Maker Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Iowa Posts: 4,889 My Photos Are NOT OK to Edit Thanked 212 Times in 203 Posts My Gallery: (0)	Quote: Originally Posted by schumionbike well BH Photo have plenty of money, As they say, money doesn't grow on trees. Where do you think B&H gets all that money? __________________ » » » » » » » » » » Price Update 3/14/10: Nikon D60 w/grip « « « « « « « « « « « « « Sale ends 3/21/10 - price updated 3/14/10: Nikon AF-S 70-300 mm VR G » » » Keith. . . .NAPP member - referral link: https://www.photoshopuser.com/signup/?aid=luhgxq&code=friend Last edited by KmH; 11-22-2009 at 06:35 PM.

11-22-2009, 05:43 PM	#33
Plato TPF Junkie! Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: United States of America Posts: 1,042 My Photos Are NOT OK to Edit Thanked 18 Times in 17 Posts My Gallery: (0)	Quote: Originally Posted by DennyCrane Precedent exists with Muslim banks in America offering "Sharia banking services" that are "compatible with Islamic law." I have no clue what constitutes "Sharia banking services." How do these services conflict with U.S. law if, in fact, they do so? __________________ ~~~ THE PACTis an egotistical rant.

11-22-2009, 06:00 PM	#34
DennyCrane I spend too much of my life on TPF! Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: The arctic North Coast Posts: 649 My Photos Are OK to Edit Thanked 24 Times in 24 Posts My Gallery: (0)	Have you heard of the internet? You can search for things there! __________________ Canon Rebel EOS T1i Canon EFS 18-55mm, EFS 55-250mm, EF 70-300mm IS USM, EF 50mm

11-22-2009, 06:02 PM	#35
inTempus Aut Concilio Aut Ense Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Indiana Posts: 3,389 My Photos Are OK to Edit Thanked 104 Times in 91 Posts My Gallery: (10)	Quote: Originally Posted by jbylake Quote: Originally Posted by inTempus I would say let them have their day in court before you condemn them. If they lose their case or if they settle out of court to make it go away, then make your mind up as to if you will do business with them or not. The filing of a civil suit doesn't mean automatic guilt. Absolutely. However, I wouldn't condemn them if they settled out of court. That does not imply guilt. Lawyers often hire other legal experts who do risk assessment. They assess the risk of winning or losing the case, and the possible costs involved. Then they will begin a bargaining process, in other words, determining if it is worth taking your chance in court, or just paying to make it go away. It has nothing to do with guilt or innocence. You can sue a chicken, so that means nothing in itself. If they go to court and the evidence is overwhelming enough to sway a jury, then they will be "proven" innocent or guilty. J. I don't believe I said that settling out of court was an admission of guilt. Like you, I said "make it go away". In other words, let the process of litigation complete before making up your mind as to what you want to do. The reason? Because people can sue for anything. Just because you get sued doesn't mean you've done something wrong. __________________ Model Mayhem \| flickr \| Digital Diffraction Blog

11-22-2009, 06:42 PM	#36
CW Jones I spend too much of my life on TPF! Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Connecticut Posts: 621 My Photos Are OK to Edit Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts My Gallery: (0)	another case of 4 people looking for the "easy" way out in life. Suing. I'm not taking a side here, but if your unhappy at a job and are "trying to support a family" on $9 an hour maybe its time to look for a new job... Wait that would be work tho, nvm we will just sue...... __________________ Flickr - 365 Project -Canon 30D Gripped {18-55mm 3.5-5.6}{50mm 1.8} -Pentax SF10 {28-80mm macro}{70-200mm} -Canon Powershot SX110IS {CHDK} "There are no rules for good photographs, there are only good photographs" -Ansel Adams

11-22-2009, 07:07 PM	#37
DennyCrane I spend too much of my life on TPF! Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: The arctic North Coast Posts: 649 My Photos Are OK to Edit Thanked 24 Times in 24 Posts My Gallery: (0)	Quote: Originally Posted by DennyCrane Have you heard of the internet? You can search for things there! Quote: Originally Posted by fnauyasas I think you should search on google. it is the best tool. Any idea? Great info! Really informative. It is helpful for me. Yaaa... I am here to share with you. Great info!!! My sarcasm has caused a spam 'bot to come here. I take responsibility for this. __________________ Canon Rebel EOS T1i Canon EFS 18-55mm, EFS 55-250mm, EF 70-300mm IS USM, EF 50mm

11-22-2009, 07:12 PM	#38
CW Jones I spend too much of my life on TPF! Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Connecticut Posts: 621 My Photos Are OK to Edit Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts My Gallery: (0)	hahaah way to go Denny haha __________________ Flickr - 365 Project -Canon 30D Gripped {18-55mm 3.5-5.6}{50mm 1.8} -Pentax SF10 {28-80mm macro}{70-200mm} -Canon Powershot SX110IS {CHDK} "There are no rules for good photographs, there are only good photographs" -Ansel Adams

11-22-2009, 08:28 PM	#39
schumionbike TPF Junkie! Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 1,026 My Photos Are OK to Edit Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts My Gallery: (0)	Quote: Originally Posted by KmH Quote: Originally Posted by schumionbike well BH Photo have plenty of money, As they say, money doesn't grow on trees. Where do you think B&H gets all that money? Why does that matter? If they can afford to defend themselves and win, well, that'll be the end of it and no one else would bother suing since they know their chances of wining are slim. If they settle, they probably know that either the case have some merit and the trial might get messy or that their chances of winning this one isn't high. So yes, if they settle, I'll judge them for that too. That's the only point I was making. Ideally you don't make judgemnt as to guilt when people settle as you want to discourage litigation but this is not a slip on a bananna peel case. __________________ Visit my Flickr!!! http://www.flickr.com/photos/khaihoanmonphotography/

11-22-2009, 08:37 PM	#40
DennyCrane I spend too much of my life on TPF! Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: The arctic North Coast Posts: 649 My Photos Are OK to Edit Thanked 24 Times in 24 Posts My Gallery: (0)	I agree. Capitulate once and they'll be on you forever. If B&H are in the right, they should fight this one out. __________________ Canon Rebel EOS T1i Canon EFS 18-55mm, EFS 55-250mm, EF 70-300mm IS USM, EF 50mm

11-23-2009, 02:02 PM	#41
Joves TPF Junkie! Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Flagstaff/Az Posts: 1,633 My Photos Are NOT OK to Edit Thanked 8 Times in 8 Posts My Gallery: (0)	Quote: Originally Posted by Plato Quote: Originally Posted by DennyCrane Precedent exists with Muslim banks in America offering "Sharia banking services" that are "compatible with Islamic law." I have no clue what constitutes "Sharia banking services." How do these services conflict with U.S. law if, in fact, they do so? Depends on whose version of Shari Law it is. Some read the law the same as the B&H where women are delegated to only certain tasks. So they too could potentially face suits as well. Also the Shari banks would discriminate on basis of religon or lack thereof because, of other religons and atheists being infidels. As I look at it, it is B&Hs business and, they should be able to run it as they please. If they dont want to hire or promote someone it is their business. You either choose to do business with them or you dont. __________________ I shoot therefore Iam. Nikon D300 Proud Member of the TPF My Photos Are Not OK To Edit Club

11-23-2009, 03:24 PM	#42
Village Idiot TPF Junkie! Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Shepherdsturd, WV / Almost, MD Posts: 3,286 My Photos Are NOT OK to Edit Thanked 28 Times in 25 Posts My Gallery: (0)	What ever. Famed B&H Photo is still getting my money. __________________ I'm a Pirate. That's because Pirates are better than ninjas. So much better that Pirate deserves to be capitalized as a proper noun and ninja does not. Yar!!! Thirty-five D's and two Marks Lots of millimeters and low f scores Bright pulsing objects that emit bursts of light

11-23-2009, 07:41 PM	#43
craig TPF Junkie! Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Hermosa Beach, CA U.S.A Posts: 5,554 Thanked 15 Times in 13 Posts My Gallery: (0)	I remember when I was a young photography student in NYC. We visited B&H's little store in teams because there is safety in numbers. Those guys were really mean. They were not as bad as the guys at the color lab or the bike messengers that I literally ran into. And no one was as mean as the the deli owners up the street from my apartment. You know what; I continued to frequent all of those places during my 9 years in Manhattan and Brooklyn. Often giving them a hard time right back. The stories I read were void of any real facts, but I hope the truth will come out. Here in the U.S I feel that justice is a game where the criminals are the ones wearing suits and ties. If I have beef with an employer I confront them. If negotiations go south I leave. Of course I can only speak for myself. I am a white man with a family. If I was a Latino women with a family things would of course be slightly different. Personally I feel that the case is unjustified. I am sure they were mean and I am sure they do not want women on the sales force. Fact of the matter is it is their business. I want to see peace and equality more then anyone. The work place is not like that. The work place is a dictatorship and that is the way it should be. Love & Bass __________________ Come in below me. craigblankphoto.com craigblankphotography.blogspot.com

11-23-2009, 08:38 PM	#44
schumionbike TPF Junkie! Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 1,026 My Photos Are OK to Edit Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts My Gallery: (0)	A lot of bussiness practices in this world are criminalized, and discrimination base on race and gender shouldn't be any different. Child labors, prostitution, mononoply, drug trade, insider trading, fraud, and so on,.... If this is kind of discrimination is going on in a family, I woudn't care, it might be a disfunctional family that's not anyone business. A work place is much bigger in scale and affect the public in much more dramatic ways. Therefore their action is and should be regulate in some ways to that the public is protected. Is the damages worth 7 million in this case? probably not, there's always punitive damages though. __________________ Visit my Flickr!!! http://www.flickr.com/photos/khaihoanmonphotography/

11-24-2009, 02:56 AM	#45
benhasajeep TPF Junkie! Join Date: May 2006 Location: Eddington, ME Posts: 1,616 Thanked 30 Times in 29 Posts My Gallery: (0)	Quote: Originally Posted by CW Jones I'm not taking a side here, but if your unhappy at a job and are "trying to support a family" on $9 an hour maybe its time to look for a new job... Wait that would be work tho, nvm we will just sue...... Thats exactialy what the one woman was doing. Trying to get a better paying position! And why should she have to look for a job elsewhere if her current company is hiring for higher paying positions??? The fact is women do get discriminated against. Now it's not as bad as it used to be years ago. But discrimination is alive and well all over (some situations reverse discrimination is an issue). And without trying to sound bad. Certain relegions absolutely forbid women to work certain jobs (and they try to do that in the US, where it is illegal deppending on how you look at the laws). The only people that know for sure what's going on is the people involved and the store! There are alot of people that use the legal system to make an easy buck. And there are alot of people who are just fed up and sue. Nobody knows, and may not know if they settle out of court and have anti-disclosure rules applied (as they normally do). __________________ Hi,

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