Police Deleted My Photo's!! C&C Also

[Seefutlung]

Next time say "No. With all due respect officer I believe that you do not have the law behind you in this case. I request you call your Watch Commander on this matter or someone in law enforcement who has more expertise on 1st Amendment Rights and privacy matters."

(Then write down the badge number and request their name ... remember the act of writing will take the confrontation to a higher level.)

If the officer still demands that you delete the images ... then I'd say. "I will not delete any images from this card. Upon your demand I will surrender the card to you for safe-keeping until a proper disposition can be made upon this matter in an arena where my full rights will be acknowledged. I will only surrender the card if you provide me with a receipt identifing images by file name and quantity and signed by yourself."

The Police can nail you if, in their opinion that you, as a non-press/media credentialed person, are creating a "situation" or "heightening a situation" making it tougher for them to do their job. And they can nail you if you do not instantly respond to their directions and orders when they are in a confrontational situation.

If you were credentialed it would be a different story, the "people's" right to know is more important than the police's need for calm.

Gary

PS- You might want to print the essense of this out and just hand it to the officer next time a demand to delete is made. Remember that by not instantly complying with all demands of the officer you will be making an enemy and cops will get even.

Short term solution is to let it go ... long term is to stand up for your rights ... but the consequences will be the potential for regular harrassment by the police.

If you're a Communications/Journalist major ... then I'd make an appointment with the Police Chief and explain the situation to him and request that he inform his/her officers that you will be on the streets and of your rights. (If you are doing this just for "fun", then the police will see you as a thorn and not work with you at all.)

In return you can tell the Chief that you will provide them with a courtesy review (but not "prior restraint") of the images before any get published on the internet or print.

But, before you do any of this, make sure that you know your rights and limitations thereof.
G

PPS- The best info I can give you is to go here:

www.photoattorney.com

Read all the stuff and print out "The Photographers Right's".
G

PPPS- Even if arrested for trespassing the police haven't a right to delete the images taken while trespassing.
G

[Mgw189]

Quote: Originally Posted by OregonAmy

That was my initial reaction to the story (well, noting "ebonics"... not race) & tainted my whole perspective of it against the OP. (well, that, and the comment that "all" the police do there is bust underage drinkers. Yeah, no bias there.) It's hard to sympathize with the OP (or trust the objectivity of the story) when s/he clearly has opinions about the subjects (both the cops and the drinkers).

Regardless, it was interesting to read the subsequent posts about photographers' rights.

As far as the OP goes in most places it is perfectly legal to breathalyze a person in public if they are displaying signs of inebriation as most states have a law or laws regarding being (as Ron White would say) Drunk in Public. Of course that person again in most states has the right to refuse and ask for a BAC test if they wish. Of course if the person is underage and provides a fake id thats a whole other story.

I really dont think that the OP was jaded regarding the race issue at all. He stated a fact. He didnt say anything out of line at all.

[~Stella~]

He or she put it out there - it's fair game.

Where is your insightful on-topic comment?

ANDS! is on it. He/she agreed to delete when even the first cop said it wasn't required, so he should have asked for clarification from a superior. This is not lawsuit-worthy material. It is unfortunate that many law enforcement officers are poorly informed - I have no doubt that most are not malicious as you all seem to think, just undereducated in this area.

[Village Idiot]

Quote: Originally Posted by Mgw189

Yes because black people are the only people that talk ebonics or slang

Some people just need to visit West Virginia.

[Mgw189]

Quote: Originally Posted by ~Stella~

He or she put it out there - it's fair game.

Where is your insightful on-topic comment?

ANDS! is on it. He/she agreed to delete when even the first cop said it wasn't required, so he should have asked for clarification from a superior. This is not lawsuit-worthy material. It is unfortunate that many law enforcement officers are poorly informed - I have no doubt that most are not malicious as you all seem to think, just undereducated in this area.

Police officers are not as ill informed as you may believe they are. Most of them are counting on a photographer not knowing their rights. There are places and events that are not fair game for photographers thanks to the Office of Homeland Security. I have a copy of the page that Seefutlung mentioned in my camera bag with me at all times. Not that I have ever really had to use it.

[manaheim]

Wow... frustrates me to read this. I wish they would hand out photographers rights explanations with every camera sold. I totally understand why the cop did it, but she was taking advantage of your not knowing your rights.

[manaheim]

Here, read these:

Photographer's Legal Rights
Model Release Form
Court Case on Legality of Sale of Street Photography
Fair Use, Copyrights, Needing Permission

[~Stella~]

Quote: Originally Posted by Mgw189

Police officers are not as ill informed as you may believe they are. Most of them are counting on a photographer not knowing their rights. There are places and events that are not fair game for photographers thanks to the Office of Homeland Security. I have a copy of the page that Seefutlung mentioned in my camera bag with me at all times. Not that I have ever really had to use it.

I think some are well informed, some are ill informed, and some have such personal control issues that their level of education on this point is completely moot.

[SlimPaul]

I agree with others. Police officers have no right to touch your camera. You can try restoring the deleted photos with some software. As to the photos you've posted, they're a bit blurred. What ISO did you use?

[rfosness88]

Sorry everyone for my use of the word "ebonics" what they said was inaudible, but it was some form of slang. Also note that my roommate and I are white and frequently talk in ebonics.

Blurry, yes. I had no tripod, I heard that ISO over 400 makes the images too noisy, so I was mostly at ISO 400, I few were 650. Reviewing the pictures I think a little more noisiness would be better than dark images.

No flash-Frankly I am very new to photography and was kind of nervous about drawing so much attention to me, especially after the police indecent.

While taking the 3rd picture one of the guys walking by said, "look at the creep with the camera" granted I didn't know them, that's the only picture I took of them. Is that creepy to take random pictures of poeple like that?

Thanks for all the info and the great links guys. I really appreciate it!

[rfosness88]

almost forgot. She asked for my ID, not sure if I am required to give it to them in Wisconsin, but I complied. She wrote down all my information. Prolly just to check my warrants, or put me on the naughty list.

[Peanuts]

Okay, I am going to take a bit of a different side to this. I think it has officially been determined that she was in the wrong to delete your images however the bigger issue I am seeing is your choice of taking these images.

Legally are you allowed to? You bet, it is a 'public place'. Should you? I wouldn't. I put myself into the position of the officers, or even the people who they are questioning, and I personally would be pretty peeved if someone took photos. If I was in the back of a squad car, whether I was inebriated or not, I would probably be quite upset for some random to come by and just shoot an image. As a police officer I would feel it was my responsibility to keep a person I have detained or am questioning from someone just snapping pictures.

Just a thought to keep in mind.

PS: Don't eat me

[gryphonslair99]

Quote: Originally Posted by rfosness88

almost forgot. She asked for my ID, not sure if I am required to give it to them in Wisconsin, but I complied. She wrote down all my information. Prolly just to check my warrants, or put me on the naughty list.

You are not legally obliged to identify yourself to the police. However, truthfully, on the street, if you fail to identify yourself to a police officer who asks, you are probably going to be detained. The police officer will probably say in the report that it wasn't because you refused to identify yourself but because the actions of you not identifying yourself caused them to be suspicious for some other reason.

If they have cause to arrest you then yes you have to identify yourself. Well actually you don't, but then they are not obligated to let you post a bond until to get out of jail until they know your true and proper identity.

[rfosness88]

Quote: Originally Posted by Peanuts

Okay, I am going to take a bit of a different side to this. I think it has officially been determined that she was in the wrong to delete your images however the bigger issue I am seeing is your choice of taking these images.

Legally are you allowed to? You bet, it is a 'public place'. Should you? I wouldn't. I put myself into the position of the officers, or even the people who they are questioning, and I personally would be pretty peeved if someone took photos. If I was in the back of a squad car, whether I was inebriated or not, I would probably be quite upset for some random to come by and just shoot an image. As a police officer I would feel it was my responsibility to keep a person I have detained or am questioning from someone just snapping pictures.

Just a thought to keep in mind.

I see what your saying, however most of the college students that I have talked to would pay for a picture of them being arrested. I would love a poster on my wall of me being arrested. In Madison WI during Halloween and the Mifflin block parties the police will fake handcuff you and pose with them for a picture I realize not all students would like this. In this small town I live in there is not much excitement, equipped with my Canon and my Uniden Police Scanner I have found some entertainment besides underage drinking.

[Arch]

Quote: Originally Posted by Peanuts

Okay, I am going to take a bit of a different side to this. I think it has officially been determined that she was in the wrong to delete your images however the bigger issue I am seeing is your choice of taking these images.

Legally are you allowed to? You bet, it is a 'public place'. Should you? I wouldn't. I put myself into the position of the officers, or even the people who they are questioning, and I personally would be pretty peeved if someone took photos. If I was in the back of a squad car, whether I was inebriated or not, I would probably be quite upset for some random to come by and just shoot an image. As a police officer I would feel it was my responsibility to keep a person I have detained or am questioning from someone just snapping pictures.

Just a thought to keep in mind.

PS: Don't eat me

At last some reason added to this very one sided debate.

Guys we all know our rights (well i do, and lots of you too) but imo that does not mean you should start demanding things from police officers 'just because you can'.

As Peanuts says... taking photos of some one who has been detained and who is acting out because she is getting photographed could well be making the officers job harder... for all we know she could have been banging on about having her photo taken all the way to the station (if thats where she was going)....
I do not believe that we should all cry out rights when we are not in the situation... its easy to say this from the outside.
Its like taking pics in an abandoned building, if you can get in and out without any bother then great... but if you run out of luck, or are in a difficult situation then fair play, better luck next time.