Wondering: D7000 vs D800 vs D700

[Bossy]

Can you agree buying a D800 to use with either the kit lens or no lens is idiotic?

Furthermore, if you have the extra funds to get good glass along with the prosumer camera, whats the point of this thread?

The point of the thread was to determine whether or not I should invest in ALL glass (i.e. 3-5 good lenses) for the D7000, or to trade in the D7000 for the D800 and invest in only 1 or 2 good lenses.

Ah see I didn't get that at all. Probably because you don't mention buying lenses at all in the OP.

I mean, you're kinda lacking some pertinent information. How much do you want to spend? What lenses are you looking at in comparison?

You can't get mad at people for writing replies based off what you give them, which would be that you want to spend your money on an upgrade, and you only own one lens.

Btw, the kit lens (the 18-105mm, right) isn't a junk lens. Its not a top shelf pro lens, but its definitely fully functional, and sharp.

[TPF Sponsor]

[AnnMo]

I just bought a D7000 and I am in love. I shoot weddings for a living and this camera paired with my Nikkor 70-200 works amazing. I recommend this camera for speed, where as for portraits and slower type shoots the 800 would be nice. If you arent big on changing alot of configurations, or if you dont understand alot of photography terms then I would pick the 7000 because it is easier to understand.

[xyphoto]

I'm starting to wonder if being a smart-ass is a NECESSITY for this particular photography forum, or if it just comes naturally to most of you that have decided to respond to this thread unnecessarily. lol

Correct. We are unlike some dumb ass like you.

[djacobox372]

Yes, thank you! My reasoning for going with glass over body now is based on this exact reason, pointed about by Dao a few pages back. Thank you for restating it! It's a good reason.

Sorry, I was to lazy to read the entire thread.

[LightSpeed]

Obviously, I wouldn't be keeping (or using) the kit lens on a pro camera body. Hell, I don't even want to keep or use the kit lens on the D7000. My #1 priority is getting at least 1 quality lens. I might be amatuer, but I'm not stupid. I don't know why you'd assume I'd even attempt using this lens on a D700 or D800. lol

Anyway - thanks. I'm thinking I will buy the D800 regardless and get a few, better lenses.

You don't know why I'd assume you'd use your kit lens on the D800?

Because you didn't mention BUYING any lenses to go with the D800. That's why.

You really need to get your priorities straight. You'd be making a poor decision IMHO. A "pro body" does not a "pro photographer" make.

This is a common misconception among amateurs. They often think, "Why should I stick with my current entry level or mid grade body, when I could buy a PRO BODY OMGLOL and be a PROFESSIONAL PHOTOGRAPHER!?!" I'm not saying that's you, believe me. But we do get a good flow of threads with that same mindset coming through the forum. They don't take into account the lenses that they want to use, or even know what lenses TO use.

Again, I will reiterate. Unless you're going to be buying some SERIOUS glass with your D800, I'd just stick to buying serious glass rather than a new body. The D800 has a 36mp Full Frame sensor. Photographic technique and high end lenses are both paramount when using that camera. It will most likely make your photos look worse than on the D7k IMHO.

What you're failing to understand is that the guts of the camera are the same. You don't need to "learn photography" on a pro camera body. It's going to expose exactly the same way as on your D7k. The shutter speed and aperture wheels are in the same spot. Cosmetically the cameras are pretty similar. You're not gaining a whole lot by moving to a full frame body, especially if you don't even know WHAT you're gaining.

Thanks, both for the input and the insults. I'll still be buying the D800. Have a nice day.

LMAO!!!!!
SLam dunk!

If you can afford it, BUY THE DAMN THING.
Then you can grow with it and worry about the rest later.

You must realize that you are conversing with an elite group of people who are ready and willing to tell you what you should spend your money on.
lol
You're not supposed to get what you want. You're supposed to get what is advised. lmao
Of course if you don't follow suit, well then, you're just not with the program.
Keep in mind, you did ask for this advice.

Personally, I have a D4 on preorder. I've been told that I can change this to the D800E if I want.
I'm seriously considering it for a number of reasons.

End of the day. Get what you want.

[LightSpeed]

Hell, I hope she buys a D4 and a D800 both. Within a week she'll be upset because her photos look like crap and want to sell them AND that D7000 for a dime on the dollar and go back to the P&S that makes her look good!

Seriously, it always amazes me that people feel that if they can throw enough monely at something it will make them an instant professional without actually having to learn anything. Still hanging around out there kiddo? Prove me wrong and show us some of what you have shot that you feel has professional qualities. If I'm wrong I'll be the first to admit it.

Considering you proclaim yourself to be an amateur yourself, I feel no need to prove anything to you.

He's ahh, pretty good with a camera.
Good bit of experience. Dude knows what he's talking about.
I'd still get the D800E

[LightSpeed]

OMG....you guys are just green with envy that someone other than you has the cashish to just go and do what they want....ANYONE can grow into a new body. ANYONE...but no one has to either....You make up a set of 'rules' like they are gospel or something...you still can't support her and help her enjoy her potential purchase. Its not that you won't..its that you can't....you don't have that generousity in you to be able to.

You are Doom and Gloom....

Thankfully...I own a Canon and don't need your toxic input.

THIS ^^

Sorry to ask Georgie, is this serious or sarcasm?

Careful Georgie............you're loyalty is coming under heavy scrutiny!
LMAO

[Josh220]

Bleh... I don't know why I read these threads. I wish they came with a "want my life back" option at the end.

OMG....you guys are just green with envy that someone other than you has the cashish to just go and do what they want....ANYONE can grow into a new body. ANYONE...but no one has to either....You make up a set of 'rules' like they are gospel or something...you still can't support her and help her enjoy her potential purchase. Its not that you won't..its that you can't....you don't have that generousity in you to be able to.

You are Doom and Gloom....

Thankfully...I own a Canon and don't need your toxic input.

I don't think this is true, I think it is misconstrued by those who wish to do so. I could go out and buy many D800's and D4's (so no jealously there), yet I still agree with the consensus of the majority thus far. It is also not entirely correct to state that she has, "the cashish to just go and do what they want," since she has to sell the gear she has yet to grow into and then add that to her tax return to afford something she is even further from growing into. There is nothing wrong with buying above your ability and then growing into it, but we are talking about a body designed to encroach on the medium format market, aimed largely towards studio photography. People with the proper skill can make this work in other applications, but do you really expect me to believe this is a good option for someone who doesn't know how to use their entry level gear?

To the OP, if you want to buy something reasonably over your head, I would pick up a D700. The D800 is just far too optimistic IMO. It would be painfully ironic to know that your images would probably degrade after spending $3k because you are not adequately equipped in the gear or experience department.

Now, where's that, "want my life back" button...

[Infinite_Day]

I read these posts for entertainment value. In all fairness, a lot of the people who tried to help the OP simply put their opinions very bluntly without attacking her. I immediately thought the same thing that Tyler and others put up upon reading the initial post. I would never drop my D7000 to buy a D800 without first buying a lot of better glass. There's no point. However, if that's what the OP wants to do that's her perogative. The real problem here is that she really just needed to take the time and do the research instead of putting up a post asking for input. I think most people on here will agree that any photographer, regardless of skill, doesn't really need to upgrade to a high-end body if they haven't already come to the realization that the glass sticking off the front of it is much more important and valuable in the long run. That's all that was trying to be imparted and it turned into a full-blown war. Derrel made some of the best points. If you have the money you buy what you want. It's that simple. There's no point in attacking other people or making snide remarks. The mods need to lock this thread.

[Nikon_Josh]

You don't know why I'd assume you'd use your kit lens on the D800?

Because you didn't mention BUYING any lenses to go with the D800. That's why.

You really need to get your priorities straight. You'd be making a poor decision IMHO. A "pro body" does not a "pro photographer" make.

This is a common misconception among amateurs. They often think, "Why should I stick with my current entry level or mid grade body, when I could buy a PRO BODY OMGLOL and be a PROFESSIONAL PHOTOGRAPHER!?!" I'm not saying that's you, believe me. But we do get a good flow of threads with that same mindset coming through the forum. They don't take into account the lenses that they want to use, or even know what lenses TO use.

Again, I will reiterate. Unless you're going to be buying some SERIOUS glass with your D800, I'd just stick to buying serious glass rather than a new body. The D800 has a 36mp Full Frame sensor. Photographic technique and high end lenses are both paramount when using that camera. It will most likely make your photos look worse than on the D7k IMHO.

What you're failing to understand is that the guts of the camera are the same. You don't need to "learn photography" on a pro camera body. It's going to expose exactly the same way as on your D7k. The shutter speed and aperture wheels are in the same spot. Cosmetically the cameras are pretty similar. You're not gaining a whole lot by moving to a full frame body, especially if you don't even know WHAT you're gaining.

Thanks, both for the input and the insults. I'll still be buying the D800. Have a nice day.

LMAO!!!!!
SLam dunk!

If you can afford it, BUY THE DAMN THING.
Then you can grow with it and worry about the rest later.

You must realize that you are conversing with an elite group of people who are ready and willing to tell you what you should spend your money on.
lol
You're not supposed to get what you want. You're supposed to get what is advised. lmao
Of course if you don't follow suit, well then, you're just not with the program.
Keep in mind, you did ask for this advice.

Personally, I have a D4 on preorder. I've been told that I can change this to the D800E if I want.
I'm seriously considering it for a number of reasons.

End of the day. Get what you want.

Oh ATTENTION ATTENTION ATTENTION!

[LightSpeed]

Oh ATTENTION ATTENTION ATTENTION!

Add a bit of logic into the equation........and it's seeking attention?
Totally unbelievable.
Since when is advising someone to do what they want with their money, " attention seeking?"

This entire fiasco looks more like a CONTROL ISSUE, than an attention seeking issue.

[LightSpeed]

Bleh... I don't know why I read these threads. I wish they came with a "want my life back" option at the end.

OMG....you guys are just green with envy that someone other than you has the cashish to just go and do what they want....ANYONE can grow into a new body. ANYONE...but no one has to either....You make up a set of 'rules' like they are gospel or something...you still can't support her and help her enjoy her potential purchase. Its not that you won't..its that you can't....you don't have that generousity in you to be able to.

You are Doom and Gloom....

Thankfully...I own a Canon and don't need your toxic input.

I don't think this is true, I think it is misconstrued by those who wish to do so. I could go out and buy many D800's and D4's (so no jealously there), yet I still agree with the consensus of the majority thus far. It is also not entirely correct to state that she has, "the cashish to just go and do what they want," since she has to sell the gear she has yet to grow into and then add that to her tax return to afford something she is even further from growing into. There is nothing wrong with buying above your ability and then growing into it, but we are talking about a body designed to encroach on the medium format market, aimed largely towards studio photography. People with the proper skill can make this work in other applications, but do you really expect me to believe this is a good option for someone who doesn't know how to use their entry level gear?

To the OP, if you want to buy something reasonably over your head, I would pick up a D700. The D800 is just far too optimistic IMO. It would be painfully ironic to know that your images would probably degrade after spending $3k because you are not adequately equipped in the gear or experience department.

Now, where's that, "want my life back" button...

I'm sure you want everyone to look at this and tell you how wonderful you are for posting it.

Here's where it falls apart.
Just because someone wants a camera that may be beyond reasonable capability, " What makes you think they can't figure it out?
It's not that hard you know. The camera is going to work by the same principles as any other camera. Time and light. It has always been so.
Yes, the camera may require higher end lenses to bring out the sensors true potential. Is it carved in stone that this cannot be obtained, by someone willing to put forth the effort?

#2 All this mess about how this D800 is geared to studio work.
What about landscape? Ever think of that?
What about macro? I mean, 36 million pixels on a close up, that can be cropped and leave you with 30 million ( or whatever) for a larger size print without interpolation.
Why I just bet you anything you want to bet that I can make it work in these two afore mentioned categories.
If I can do it , or you can do it, " What makes you think others can't?

#3, you appear to believe that people can't learn, so it's best for them to stick with what you suggest.
I agree that a better camera doesn't mean better photos, but in this case it DOES equate to better image quality.
Anybody can get lucky. I do it all the time. Why not have the best image quality one can afford, for those times?

Now, where's that, "want my life back" button...

[Josh220]

You seem to take pride in your logic, yet you do not read thoroughly... Every single point you made is rendered moot if you had actually read my post.

I'm sure you want everyone to look at this and tell you how wonderful you are for posting it.

Here's where it falls apart.
Just because someone wants a camera that may be beyond reasonable capability, " What makes you think they can't figure it out?
It's not that hard you know. The camera is going to work by the same principles as any other camera. Time and light. It has always been so.
Yes, the camera may require higher end lenses to bring out the sensors true potential. Is it carved in stone that this cannot be obtained, by someone willing to put forth the effort?

Without the proper glass, yes actually. She plans on "eventually" obtaining better glass, thus she will "eventually" see improvement in her images. Nothing wrong with that, but like I said previously, why spend $3k to downgrade your images because you are not adequately prepared?

#2 All this mess about how this D800 is geared to studio work.
What about landscape? Ever think of that?
What about macro? I mean, 36 million pixels on a close up, that can be cropped and leave you with 30 million ( or whatever) for a larger size print without interpolation.
Why I just bet you anything you want to bet that I can make it work in these two afore mentioned categories.
If I can do it , or you can do it, " What makes you think others can't?

Please read again:

There is nothing wrong with buying above your ability and then growing into it, but we are talking about a body designed to encroach on the medium format market, aimed largely towards studio photography. People with the proper skill can make this work in other applications, but do you really expect me to believe this is a good option for someone who doesn't know how to use their entry level gear?

#3, you appear to believe that people can't learn, so it's best for them to stick with what you suggest.

Show me where I stated that people cannot learn? Please refrain from putting words into my mouth as it does not benefit this discussion.

I agree that a better camera doesn't mean better photos, but in this case it DOES equate to better image quality.

Actually, it doesn't. It equates to the possibility of better image quality, but the probability is close to nonexistent with a kit lens and a sensor that large, and no understanding of the precision that will be needed with the new design.

[Ballistics]

Im always the one to advocate spending more now. This whole blanket statement about jealousy is poppycock. What I addressed was the prima donna notation that people were insulting the OP. She asked for advice and was given advice. It wasn't that she told everyone that she wanted to buy a camera and everyone jumped down her throat. Let's not get things twisted here. She asked for people's opinions, were given opinions, and disapproved. Similar with C&C. If the OP wants to drop 3 or 4k on a body, that's her prerogative, but if you ask for advice, you are going to get it.

[Ballistics]

You don't know why I'd assume you'd use your kit lens on the D800?

Because you didn't mention BUYING any lenses to go with the D800. That's why.

You really need to get your priorities straight. You'd be making a poor decision IMHO. A "pro body" does not a "pro photographer" make.

This is a common misconception among amateurs. They often think, "Why should I stick with my current entry level or mid grade body, when I could buy a PRO BODY OMGLOL and be a PROFESSIONAL PHOTOGRAPHER!?!" I'm not saying that's you, believe me. But we do get a good flow of threads with that same mindset coming through the forum. They don't take into account the lenses that they want to use, or even know what lenses TO use.

Again, I will reiterate. Unless you're going to be buying some SERIOUS glass with your D800, I'd just stick to buying serious glass rather than a new body. The D800 has a 36mp Full Frame sensor. Photographic technique and high end lenses are both paramount when using that camera. It will most likely make your photos look worse than on the D7k IMHO.

What you're failing to understand is that the guts of the camera are the same. You don't need to "learn photography" on a pro camera body. It's going to expose exactly the same way as on your D7k. The shutter speed and aperture wheels are in the same spot. Cosmetically the cameras are pretty similar. You're not gaining a whole lot by moving to a full frame body, especially if you don't even know WHAT you're gaining.

Thanks, both for the input and the insults. I'll still be buying the D800. Have a nice day.

LMAO!!!!!
SLam dunk!

If you can afford it, BUY THE DAMN THING.
Then you can grow with it and worry about the rest later.

You must realize that you are conversing with an elite group of people who are ready and willing to tell you what you should spend your money on.
lol
You're not supposed to get what you want. You're supposed to get what is advised. lmao
Of course if you don't follow suit, well then, you're just not with the program.
Keep in mind, you did ask for this advice.

Personally, I have a D4 on preorder. I've been told that I can change this to the D800E if I want.
I'm seriously considering it for a number of reasons.

End of the day. Get what you want.

This is the turning point here -

So I guess what I really want to know is - do I bite the bullet, sell the D7000 and buy the pro camera? Or do I hang on to the mid-grade one for a bit while I keep up with my learning and practicing?

This was the initial question at hand. The advice following was pretty relevant. Up until my post, no one said anything out of hand or confrontational.