i'm looking for a camera to shoot "shallow focus" pictures - what do i need?

[ashbornangel]

i really enjoy taking pictures using the camera on my smart phone but i would like to start getting some higher quality photos

my favorite thing is using the "flower" mode in which i can take close-ups with the background very blurry - but i don't want to be limited to close-up pictures!

i really don't want to spend too much money on a camera. i'm not looking to get into photography or anything - i'd just like to be able to take pictures with a "shallow focus" (hooray wikipedia article)

basically just looking for the most inexpensive camera that can do this - stopped at best buy and looked at a few in the $150-%200 dollar range. can these fairly simple digital cameras do this?

what do i need?

the example photo on this wikipedia article shows what im trying to get
Shallow focus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

thanks for any help

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[molested_cow]

No expert here, but I don't think you can get that from most point and shoots.

To achieve shallow focus pictures, you need large aperture, which is more about the lens than the camera. If you want really shallow depth of field, you are probably looking at larger than F2.8. Most point and shoot cameras are smaller than that.

[enzodm]

Some recent discussion: Help me with my kit lens and bokeh
And from wikipedia: Depth of field - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It depends on the scene, but also on the lens aperture and focal length, so typically is not just taking pictures with shallow focus, but getting at least a bit into photography. Compact cameras have very short focal lengths and small apertures, which give great depth of field, so typically let you blur the background only if the the subject is very far from background (taking also in consideration the distance from the camera: this is why you have a flower mode).
The largest aperture you can find on a compact is in Olympus XZ-1, which has a 6-24/1.8-2.5 (premium compact - double of your budget). However, with those short focal lengths (normal for a compact), you need some technique to have what you want. Here to have an idea (subject close to camera, background 10-20m): Re: XZ-1 and background blur: Olympus Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review - not much blur, but better than with a phone. iPhone 4 by the way has a 3.85/2.8 lens (here for an idea of DoF: Depth of Field Table ).
The cheapest choice would be to buy a used mirrorless (Pen E-PL1) or a very old dSLR. Then maybe adapt an ultra-old manual focus prime lens, but all of this means getting into photography.

[ashbornangel]

i suppose i can "get into photography" a little bit =)

i really just meant that i'm not looking to start a business or anything - i just want to be able to take nicer pictures

would something in the $500 range work for this? i'm looking at some entry level dslr at the moment.

a friend of mine has one of these entry level dslr - i might go by and play with it today and see what it can do.

i suppose i just keep all the settings the same and change only one setting at a time to see what changes?

[ashbornangel]

and just for clarification:

you said compact cameras have a short focal length and small aperture

so in the flower mode what exactly is it changing to get that shallow focus effect?

[The_Traveler]

What you are looking for is 'shallow depth of field.'

The DOF is related to three things - the focal length of the lens - the shorter the focal length the wider (not shallow) DOF
the size of the opening in the lens - the aperture
the distance that the len is focused at - the closer the shallower the DOF.

For shallow DOF you would want a longish lens that can be focused relatively close up and that has a wide aperture.

The camera body is sort of irrelevant but lenses with wide aperture and close focusing are relatively expensive.

Adorama sells an 85 mm 2.8 for about $300 but that doesn't focus particularly close and is manual focus.

[Buckster]

and just for clarification:

you said compact cameras have a short focal length and small aperture

so in the flower mode what exactly is it changing to get that shallow focus effect?

You're much closer to the subject, so the relative DOF (depth of field) is shallower because of that. As you move away and get to portraits, full body shots, objects like vehicles, buildings, etc., you need more distance between them and whatever you want blurrred, plus usually longer and faster glass to keep it shallow. The longer and faster the lens, generally speaking, the more expensive.

[enzodm]

i suppose i can "get into photography" a little bit =)

i really just meant that i'm not looking to start a business or anything - i just want to be able to take nicer pictures

would something in the $500 range work for this? i'm looking at some entry level dslr at the moment.

a friend of mine has one of these entry level dslr - i might go by and play with it today and see what it can do.

i suppose i just keep all the settings the same and change only one setting at a time to see what changes?

You could go this way too: What is DOF - Turtleback

Definitely, at first play with your friend's camera -however consider that with kit lenses (look at the first thread I linked ) you need again to work a little to obtain the effect.
Then, entry level dSLR and mirroless give you a way for obtaining what you want. Of course, also because lens is interchangeable - large apertures are not the norm on kit lens. So, for example, this + this fits your new budget, and gives you an entry into the world of "shallow focus" (which I imagine is a term born in the video area, not much used in photography).

EDIT:browse here to find samples made with Canon 50/1.8: http://www.flickr.com/groups/canonef50mm/pool/

[ashbornangel]

thanks for all the replies!

i think i've got a pretty good idea of what i'm going to be looking for =)

[djacobox372]

There are two things that "shallow" your dof: larger sensors (dslr sensors ar much bigger then p&s), and wide apertures.

If you're lucky you may find a nikon d70 with a 50mm f1.8 for $200.

[ashbornangel]

i ended up buying a canon eos rebel t3 with kit lens
its pretty cool, but honestly not that impressed for $530
i think im going to return it and try and find something older/cheaper with a better lens

any advice on a cheaper camera body that would work with a canon 50mm f/1.8?

edit: there was a link in this thread earlier but it's not available anymore - and i have no idea where to look

thanks again

edit 2: just saw above post

edit 3: any other suggestions besides that nikon d70? i found on amazon the body for $140/50mm f1.8 for $109

also there are a few different 50mm f/1.8 lenses with slightly different prices - is there a difference? what am i looking for in a lens

[enzodm]

i ended up buying a canon eos rebel t3 with kit lens
its pretty cool, but honestly not that impressed for $530
i think im going to return it and try and find something older/cheaper with a better lens

any advice on a cheaper camera body that would work with a canon 50mm f/1.8?

edit: there was a link in this thread earlier but it's not available anymore - and i have no idea where to look

thanks again

edit 2: just saw above post

edit 3: any other suggestions besides that nikon d70? i found on amazon the body for $140/50mm f1.8 for $109

also there are a few different 50mm f/1.8 lenses with slightly different prices - is there a difference? what am i looking for in a lens

not impressed after just one day - it's your fault, not the camera
Any Canon (Xs is cheap for example) will do it. Remember that the Nikon 50/1.8 has not autofocus on entry level bodies.

[Solarflare]

Oh, Nikon has autofocus on all bodies - unless you buy the AF instead of the AF-S version. The AF version is cheaper, but needs an autofocus motor on the camera.

[ashbornangel]

not impressed after just one day - it's your fault, not the camera
Any Canon (Xs is cheap for example) will do it. Remember that the Nikon 50/1.8 has not autofocus on entry level bodies.

i just meant i wasnt impressed with the controls/interface. just felt really clunky. maybe thats normal for most DSLR
it did take fantastic photos, but it was annoying to use.

so i found this
http://www.amazon.com/Canon-6-3MP-Di...words=canon+xs
and this
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...A1ONXNZCOVO2I6

could i really do any better for that price?

thanks

edit: the nikon d70 is basically the same price - is one better? or just a matter of preference

[Dao]

i ended up buying a canon eos rebel t3 with kit lens
its pretty cool, but honestly not that impressed for $530
i think im going to return it and try and find something older/cheaper with a better lens

Can you explain in what ways you were not impressed with the Rebel T3? That could be hints for camera recommendation.