Motorcross - First Time (c&c)

fokker · 02-07-2010, 11:34 PM

Hi all, I just moved out to the country and discovered there is a motorcross track 10 minutes down the road from my house where they race often and practice every sunday. I went down this weekend got a few shots, these three are my favourite. Comments welcomed.

These were all taken using my 70-300 IS USM on 40d. Posting from work and don't have the full exif data.

Thanks for looking.

Provo · 02-08-2010, 05:03 AM

I like #1 # 3 I think the colors need a tid bit boost just my opinion

vh5150 · 02-08-2010, 09:17 AM

I'm not sure how to improve on your pictures as that is how most of mine look also. I do like the first shot. Looks dry and dusty just like here in the southwest. However, I do know there is only one "r" in the name of the sport, it is motocross.

gsgary · 02-08-2010, 02:54 PM

Better positioning will improve your shots, look for more dynamic corners
my take on shot 1
http://gsgary.smugmug.com/Sports/Der...02_dZYuJ-L.jpg

Shot 2
http://gsgary.smugmug.com/Sports/Der...87_rbfXn-L.jpg

Shot 3
http://gsgary.smugmug.com/Sports/Der...66_7VXJH-L.jpg

fokker · 02-09-2010, 10:21 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by vh5150

I'm not sure how to improve on your pictures as that is how most of mine look also. I do like the first shot. Looks dry and dusty just like here in the southwest. However, I do know there is only one "r" in the name of the sport, it is motocross.

Thanks for pointing that out, I'll change the title now

Quote: Originally Posted by gsgary

Better positioning will improve your shots, look for more dynamic corners
my take on shot 1
http://gsgary.smugmug.com/Sports/Der...02_dZYuJ-L.jpg

Shot 2
http://gsgary.smugmug.com/Sports/Der...87_rbfXn-L.jpg

Shot 3
http://gsgary.smugmug.com/Sports/Der...66_7VXJH-L.jpg

Thanks Gary I was hoping you would chip in here I always like your sport shots. I love the second and third shots you posted though in my situation at the time it wouldn't have been possible to get either of these shots. It was only a practice day so they weren't going too hard out over the jumps though I defintely agree I could do a much better angle than the one I posted. Actually that second shot of mine isn't really one of my favourites but it's the best mid-air one I got and was trying to pan a bit (probably needed a slightly slower shutter speed I think). Also, as vh5150 pointed out, it's a bit dry and dusty here to get a nice mud shot, but maybe I'll go back on a wetter day. Still, I love the angle and the action shown in your third pic.
Also, not to try and sound like a prat or anything but I think my shot #1 is better than the shot #1 you posted! With the exception that mine looks muted and a bit underexposed by comparison (but I can fix that up easy enough, I blame the screen on ym laptop), but I reckon my one is abit more interesting

gsgary · 02-10-2010, 09:26 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by fokker

Quote: Originally Posted by vh5150

I'm not sure how to improve on your pictures as that is how most of mine look also. I do like the first shot. Looks dry and dusty just like here in the southwest. However, I do know there is only one "r" in the name of the sport, it is motocross.

Thanks for pointing that out, I'll change the title now

Quote: Originally Posted by gsgary

Better positioning will improve your shots, look for more dynamic corners
my take on shot 1
http://gsgary.smugmug.com/Sports/Der...02_dZYuJ-L.jpg

Shot 2
http://gsgary.smugmug.com/Sports/Der...87_rbfXn-L.jpg

Shot 3
http://gsgary.smugmug.com/Sports/Der...66_7VXJH-L.jpg

Thanks Gary I was hoping you would chip in here I always like your sport shots. I love the second and third shots you posted though in my situation at the time it wouldn't have been possible to get either of these shots. It was only a practice day so they weren't going too hard out over the jumps though I defintely agree I could do a much better angle than the one I posted. Actually that second shot of mine isn't really one of my favourites but it's the best mid-air one I got and was trying to pan a bit (probably needed a slightly slower shutter speed I think). Also, as vh5150 pointed out, it's a bit dry and dusty here to get a nice mud shot, but maybe I'll go back on a wetter day. Still, I love the angle and the action shown in your third pic.
Also, not to try and sound like a prat or anything but I think my shot #1 is better than the shot #1 you posted! With the exception that mine looks muted and a bit underexposed by comparison (but I can fix that up easy enough, I blame the screen on ym laptop), but I reckon my one is abit more interesting

My shot 1 is sharper

This is like your shot 2 1/60 but with a bit of flash

i like to get in close with a bit of flash, maybe a bit too close

SDH · 02-25-2010, 03:59 PM

These are great photos! I would love to shoot some motorcross this summer however was concerned about having my gear around so much dust. Is there tips you might lend as to photographing in such a dusty environment in order to not ruin your lense and camera?

Allizdog89 · 02-25-2010, 05:17 PM

1st picture is really cool/nice! What shutter speed was that at and about how fast was that guy going?

ocular · 02-26-2010, 07:29 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by gsgary

Quote: Originally Posted by fokker

Quote: Originally Posted by vh5150

I'm not sure how to improve on your pictures as that is how most of mine look also. I do like the first shot. Looks dry and dusty just like here in the southwest. However, I do know there is only one "r" in the name of the sport, it is motocross.

Thanks for pointing that out, I'll change the title now

Quote: Originally Posted by gsgary

Better positioning will improve your shots, look for more dynamic corners
my take on shot 1
http://gsgary.smugmug.com/Sports/Der...02_dZYuJ-L.jpg

Shot 2
http://gsgary.smugmug.com/Sports/Der...87_rbfXn-L.jpg

Shot 3
http://gsgary.smugmug.com/Sports/Der...66_7VXJH-L.jpg

Thanks Gary I was hoping you would chip in here I always like your sport shots. I love the second and third shots you posted though in my situation at the time it wouldn't have been possible to get either of these shots. It was only a practice day so they weren't going too hard out over the jumps though I defintely agree I could do a much better angle than the one I posted. Actually that second shot of mine isn't really one of my favourites but it's the best mid-air one I got and was trying to pan a bit (probably needed a slightly slower shutter speed I think). Also, as vh5150 pointed out, it's a bit dry and dusty here to get a nice mud shot, but maybe I'll go back on a wetter day. Still, I love the angle and the action shown in your third pic.
Also, not to try and sound like a prat or anything but I think my shot #1 is better than the shot #1 you posted! With the exception that mine looks muted and a bit underexposed by comparison (but I can fix that up easy enough, I blame the screen on ym laptop), but I reckon my one is abit more interesting

My shot 1 is sharper

This is like your shot 2 1/60 but with a bit of flash

i like to get in close with a bit of flash, maybe a bit too close

He's right, using a flash would help you get sharper images. In terms of color, you can't really compare his pictures with yours since obviously yours takes place in a pretty arid environment :P

gsgary · 02-27-2010, 03:42 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by ocular

Quote: Originally Posted by gsgary

Quote: Originally Posted by fokker

Thanks for pointing that out, I'll change the title now

Thanks Gary I was hoping you would chip in here I always like your sport shots. I love the second and third shots you posted though in my situation at the time it wouldn't have been possible to get either of these shots. It was only a practice day so they weren't going too hard out over the jumps though I defintely agree I could do a much better angle than the one I posted. Actually that second shot of mine isn't really one of my favourites but it's the best mid-air one I got and was trying to pan a bit (probably needed a slightly slower shutter speed I think). Also, as vh5150 pointed out, it's a bit dry and dusty here to get a nice mud shot, but maybe I'll go back on a wetter day. Still, I love the angle and the action shown in your third pic.
Also, not to try and sound like a prat or anything but I think my shot #1 is better than the shot #1 you posted! With the exception that mine looks muted and a bit underexposed by comparison (but I can fix that up easy enough, I blame the screen on ym laptop), but I reckon my one is abit more interesting

My shot 1 is sharper

This is like your shot 2 1/60 but with a bit of flash

i like to get in close with a bit of flash, maybe a bit too close

He's right, using a flash would help you get sharper images. In terms of color, you can't really compare his pictures with yours since obviously yours takes place in a pretty arid environment :P

I only shoot with flash when i want to use a slow shutter speed and set it to second curtain sinc

DRoberts · 03-06-2010, 12:20 AM

Work on your panning. Get the pan down and the rest will fall into place.

fokker · 03-07-2010, 12:40 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by DRoberts

Work on your panning. Get the pan down and the rest will fall into place.

Yeah I've been practicing my panning shots, though I have to say I find the pan effect a bit played out at times and often makes for somewhat mediocre shots as you can only really get people going in a straight line perpendicular to the camera, like so:

I prefer to try and show more action through using a fast shutter speed and capturing the peak of action, like so:

Maybe I just to work on my technique more so I can do both at once, ie panning at the peak of action.

gsgary · 03-07-2010, 01:47 PM

You don't have to pan in a staight line, this was panned @ 600mm on a bend

and @ 154mm and about 100mph

DRoberts · 03-07-2010, 08:26 PM

Panning will lock focus, so you can capture the shot when you want rather than trying to catch it when it comes into your fileld of focus window. Straight on or from the side it will allow you to capture your shot with better clarity.

kajiki · 03-08-2010, 04:11 AM

What I will say is

background

Someone on another forum asked who the biggest influences were, and I was researching Mike Powell, as I thought it was he that had captured that very famous image of Bob Beamon in '68. Have a look at Powell's pix now!

02-08-2010, 05:03 AM	#2
Provo I spend too much of my life on TPF! Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: New Jersey Posts: 583 My Photos Are OK to Edit Thanked 23 Times in 21 Posts My Gallery: (0)	I like #1 # 3 I think the colors need a tid bit boost just my opinion __________________ EQUIP: NIKON D5000 / AF-S NIKKOR 18-55MM VR / NIKKOR 55-200MM AF-S DX ZOOM LENS / NK REMOTE 1.4 / PHOTTIX® CLEON II - SHUTTER RELEASE / GIOTTOS MT 8361 CARBON FIBER TRIPOD/VANGUARD SBH-250 BALL HEAD / B+W 52MM KAESEMAN CIRCULAR POLARIZING FILTER / SB-900 SPEEDLIGHT / SIGMA 10-20MM F/4-5.6D EX DC HSM WIDE ANGLE *If I have helped you & you wish to thank me please do so by clicking the thanks button located in the corner*

02-08-2010, 09:17 AM	#3
vh5150 No longer a newbie, moving up! Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 37 My Photos Are OK to Edit Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts My Gallery: (0)	I'm not sure how to improve on your pictures as that is how most of mine look also. I do like the first shot. Looks dry and dusty just like here in the southwest. However, I do know there is only one "r" in the name of the sport, it is motocross. __________________ Nikon D70s Nikon 18-70 Nikon 70-300 NIkon 50mm 1.8 Tamron 28-70 2.8 SB-600

02-09-2010, 10:21 PM	#5
fokker TPF Junkie! Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Taupo, NZ Posts: 1,299 My Photos Are OK to Edit Thanked 66 Times in 59 Posts My Gallery: (0)	Quote: Originally Posted by vh5150 I'm not sure how to improve on your pictures as that is how most of mine look also. I do like the first shot. Looks dry and dusty just like here in the southwest. However, I do know there is only one "r" in the name of the sport, it is motocross. Thanks for pointing that out, I'll change the title now Quote: Originally Posted by gsgary Better positioning will improve your shots, look for more dynamic corners my take on shot 1 http://gsgary.smugmug.com/Sports/Der...02_dZYuJ-L.jpg Shot 2 http://gsgary.smugmug.com/Sports/Der...87_rbfXn-L.jpg Shot 3 http://gsgary.smugmug.com/Sports/Der...66_7VXJH-L.jpg Thanks Gary I was hoping you would chip in here I always like your sport shots. I love the second and third shots you posted though in my situation at the time it wouldn't have been possible to get either of these shots. It was only a practice day so they weren't going too hard out over the jumps though I defintely agree I could do a much better angle than the one I posted. Actually that second shot of mine isn't really one of my favourites but it's the best mid-air one I got and was trying to pan a bit (probably needed a slightly slower shutter speed I think). Also, as vh5150 pointed out, it's a bit dry and dusty here to get a nice mud shot, but maybe I'll go back on a wetter day. Still, I love the angle and the action shown in your third pic. Also, not to try and sound like a prat or anything but I think my shot #1 is better than the shot #1 you posted! With the exception that mine looks muted and a bit underexposed by comparison (but I can fix that up easy enough, I blame the screen on ym laptop), but I reckon my one is abit more interesting __________________ Ever evolving list of gear: \| Canon 40d \|Canon 5d + Grip \| Canon 1d mkII \| Sigma 10-20mm \| Sigma 15mm Fisheye \| EF-s 17-55 f2.8 IS \| EF 70-300mm IS USM \| \|EF 70-200 f2.8L IS \| EF 50mm f1.4 \| EF 100mm f2.8 Macro \| EF 2x extender \| EF 1.4x extender \| Lensbaby 2.0 \|430EX \| 430EXII \| \| Photoshop CS4 \| Lightroom v2 \| flickr

03-06-2010, 12:20 AM	#11
DRoberts I spend too much of my life on TPF! Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Springfield, Missouri Posts: 764 My Photos Are OK to Edit Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts My Gallery: (0)	Work on your panning. Get the pan down and the rest will fall into place. __________________ Canon 1Ds mk III/Canon 5D mk II/Canon 50D, Canon EF 400mm f/2.8L IS USM, 70-200 f/2.8L USM, Canon EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS USM, 23-185 f/3.5-5.6 IS USM, 50mm f/1.8 II, 70-300 f/4-5.6, UVs and Polarizers for all, 580EX II, BG-E2N x 2

03-07-2010, 12:40 PM	#12
fokker TPF Junkie! Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Taupo, NZ Posts: 1,299 My Photos Are OK to Edit Thanked 66 Times in 59 Posts My Gallery: (0)	Quote: Originally Posted by DRoberts Work on your panning. Get the pan down and the rest will fall into place. Yeah I've been practicing my panning shots, though I have to say I find the pan effect a bit played out at times and often makes for somewhat mediocre shots as you can only really get people going in a straight line perpendicular to the camera, like so: I prefer to try and show more action through using a fast shutter speed and capturing the peak of action, like so: Maybe I just to work on my technique more so I can do both at once, ie panning at the peak of action. __________________ Ever evolving list of gear: \| Canon 40d \|Canon 5d + Grip \| Canon 1d mkII \| Sigma 10-20mm \| Sigma 15mm Fisheye \| EF-s 17-55 f2.8 IS \| EF 70-300mm IS USM \| \|EF 70-200 f2.8L IS \| EF 50mm f1.4 \| EF 100mm f2.8 Macro \| EF 2x extender \| EF 1.4x extender \| Lensbaby 2.0 \|430EX \| 430EXII \| \| Photoshop CS4 \| Lightroom v2 \| flickr

Motorcross - First Time (c&c)

galery motor cross

poto motocross

02-07-2010, 11:34 PM	#1
fokker TPF Junkie! Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Taupo, NZ Posts: 1,299 My Photos Are OK to Edit Thanked 66 Times in 59 Posts My Gallery: (0)	Motocross - First Time (c&c) Hi all, I just moved out to the country and discovered there is a motorcross track 10 minutes down the road from my house where they race often and practice every sunday. I went down this weekend got a few shots, these three are my favourite. Comments welcomed. These were all taken using my 70-300 IS USM on 40d. Posting from work and don't have the full exif data. Thanks for looking. __________________ Ever evolving list of gear: \| Canon 40d \|Canon 5d + Grip \| Canon 1d mkII \| Sigma 10-20mm \| Sigma 15mm Fisheye \| EF-s 17-55 f2.8 IS \| EF 70-300mm IS USM \| \|EF 70-200 f2.8L IS \| EF 50mm f1.4 \| EF 100mm f2.8 Macro \| EF 2x extender \| EF 1.4x extender \| Lensbaby 2.0 \|430EX \| 430EXII \| \| Photoshop CS4 \| Lightroom v2 \| flickr Last edited by fokker; 02-09-2010 at 10:24 PM.

02-08-2010, 02:54 PM	#4
gsgary TPF Junkie! Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Chesterfield UK Posts: 3,129 My Photos Are OK to Edit Thanked 80 Times in 69 Posts My Gallery: (0)	Better positioning will improve your shots, look for more dynamic corners my take on shot 1 http://gsgary.smugmug.com/Sports/Der...02_dZYuJ-L.jpg Shot 2 http://gsgary.smugmug.com/Sports/Der...87_rbfXn-L.jpg Shot 3 http://gsgary.smugmug.com/Sports/Der...66_7VXJH-L.jpg

02-10-2010, 09:26 AM	#6
gsgary TPF Junkie! Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Chesterfield UK Posts: 3,129 My Photos Are OK to Edit Thanked 80 Times in 69 Posts My Gallery: (0)	Quote: Originally Posted by fokker Quote: Originally Posted by vh5150 I'm not sure how to improve on your pictures as that is how most of mine look also. I do like the first shot. Looks dry and dusty just like here in the southwest. However, I do know there is only one "r" in the name of the sport, it is motocross. Thanks for pointing that out, I'll change the title now Quote: Originally Posted by gsgary Better positioning will improve your shots, look for more dynamic corners my take on shot 1 http://gsgary.smugmug.com/Sports/Der...02_dZYuJ-L.jpg Shot 2 http://gsgary.smugmug.com/Sports/Der...87_rbfXn-L.jpg Shot 3 http://gsgary.smugmug.com/Sports/Der...66_7VXJH-L.jpg Thanks Gary I was hoping you would chip in here I always like your sport shots. I love the second and third shots you posted though in my situation at the time it wouldn't have been possible to get either of these shots. It was only a practice day so they weren't going too hard out over the jumps though I defintely agree I could do a much better angle than the one I posted. Actually that second shot of mine isn't really one of my favourites but it's the best mid-air one I got and was trying to pan a bit (probably needed a slightly slower shutter speed I think). Also, as vh5150 pointed out, it's a bit dry and dusty here to get a nice mud shot, but maybe I'll go back on a wetter day. Still, I love the angle and the action shown in your third pic. Also, not to try and sound like a prat or anything but I think my shot #1 is better than the shot #1 you posted! With the exception that mine looks muted and a bit underexposed by comparison (but I can fix that up easy enough, I blame the screen on ym laptop), but I reckon my one is abit more interesting My shot 1 is sharper This is like your shot 2 1/60 but with a bit of flash i like to get in close with a bit of flash, maybe a bit too close

02-25-2010, 03:59 PM	#7
SDH TPF Noob! Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: PA Posts: 1 My Photos Are NOT OK to Edit Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts My Gallery: (0)	These are great photos! I would love to shoot some motorcross this summer however was concerned about having my gear around so much dust. Is there tips you might lend as to photographing in such a dusty environment in order to not ruin your lense and camera?

02-25-2010, 05:17 PM	#8
Allizdog89 No longer a newbie, moving up! Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Miami Posts: 40 My Photos Are OK to Edit Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts My Gallery: (0)	1st picture is really cool/nice! What shutter speed was that at and about how fast was that guy going?

02-26-2010, 07:29 PM	#9
ocular I spend too much of my life on TPF! Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: outoftown Posts: 998 My Photos Are NOT OK to Edit Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts My Gallery: (0)	Quote: Originally Posted by gsgary Quote: Originally Posted by fokker Quote: Originally Posted by vh5150 I'm not sure how to improve on your pictures as that is how most of mine look also. I do like the first shot. Looks dry and dusty just like here in the southwest. However, I do know there is only one "r" in the name of the sport, it is motocross. Thanks for pointing that out, I'll change the title now Quote: Originally Posted by gsgary Better positioning will improve your shots, look for more dynamic corners my take on shot 1 http://gsgary.smugmug.com/Sports/Der...02_dZYuJ-L.jpg Shot 2 http://gsgary.smugmug.com/Sports/Der...87_rbfXn-L.jpg Shot 3 http://gsgary.smugmug.com/Sports/Der...66_7VXJH-L.jpg Thanks Gary I was hoping you would chip in here I always like your sport shots. I love the second and third shots you posted though in my situation at the time it wouldn't have been possible to get either of these shots. It was only a practice day so they weren't going too hard out over the jumps though I defintely agree I could do a much better angle than the one I posted. Actually that second shot of mine isn't really one of my favourites but it's the best mid-air one I got and was trying to pan a bit (probably needed a slightly slower shutter speed I think). Also, as vh5150 pointed out, it's a bit dry and dusty here to get a nice mud shot, but maybe I'll go back on a wetter day. Still, I love the angle and the action shown in your third pic. Also, not to try and sound like a prat or anything but I think my shot #1 is better than the shot #1 you posted! With the exception that mine looks muted and a bit underexposed by comparison (but I can fix that up easy enough, I blame the screen on ym laptop), but I reckon my one is abit more interesting My shot 1 is sharper This is like your shot 2 1/60 but with a bit of flash i like to get in close with a bit of flash, maybe a bit too close He's right, using a flash would help you get sharper images. In terms of color, you can't really compare his pictures with yours since obviously yours takes place in a pretty arid environment :P

02-27-2010, 03:42 AM	#10
gsgary TPF Junkie! Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Chesterfield UK Posts: 3,129 My Photos Are OK to Edit Thanked 80 Times in 69 Posts My Gallery: (0)	Quote: Originally Posted by ocular Quote: Originally Posted by gsgary Quote: Originally Posted by fokker Thanks for pointing that out, I'll change the title now Thanks Gary I was hoping you would chip in here I always like your sport shots. I love the second and third shots you posted though in my situation at the time it wouldn't have been possible to get either of these shots. It was only a practice day so they weren't going too hard out over the jumps though I defintely agree I could do a much better angle than the one I posted. Actually that second shot of mine isn't really one of my favourites but it's the best mid-air one I got and was trying to pan a bit (probably needed a slightly slower shutter speed I think). Also, as vh5150 pointed out, it's a bit dry and dusty here to get a nice mud shot, but maybe I'll go back on a wetter day. Still, I love the angle and the action shown in your third pic. Also, not to try and sound like a prat or anything but I think my shot #1 is better than the shot #1 you posted! With the exception that mine looks muted and a bit underexposed by comparison (but I can fix that up easy enough, I blame the screen on ym laptop), but I reckon my one is abit more interesting My shot 1 is sharper This is like your shot 2 1/60 but with a bit of flash i like to get in close with a bit of flash, maybe a bit too close He's right, using a flash would help you get sharper images. In terms of color, you can't really compare his pictures with yours since obviously yours takes place in a pretty arid environment :P I only shoot with flash when i want to use a slow shutter speed and set it to second curtain sinc

03-07-2010, 01:47 PM	#13
gsgary TPF Junkie! Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Chesterfield UK Posts: 3,129 My Photos Are OK to Edit Thanked 80 Times in 69 Posts My Gallery: (0)	You don't have to pan in a staight line, this was panned @ 600mm on a bend and @ 154mm and about 100mph

03-07-2010, 08:26 PM	#14
DRoberts I spend too much of my life on TPF! Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Springfield, Missouri Posts: 764 My Photos Are OK to Edit Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts My Gallery: (0)	Panning will lock focus, so you can capture the shot when you want rather than trying to catch it when it comes into your fileld of focus window. Straight on or from the side it will allow you to capture your shot with better clarity. __________________ Canon 1Ds mk III/Canon 5D mk II/Canon 50D, Canon EF 400mm f/2.8L IS USM, 70-200 f/2.8L USM, Canon EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS USM, 23-185 f/3.5-5.6 IS USM, 50mm f/1.8 II, 70-300 f/4-5.6, UVs and Polarizers for all, 580EX II, BG-E2N x 2

03-08-2010, 04:11 AM	#15
kajiki Been spending a lot of time on here! Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Japan Posts: 132 My Photos Are NOT OK to Edit Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts My Gallery: (10)	What I will say is background Someone on another forum asked who the biggest influences were, and I was researching Mike Powell, as I thought it was he that had captured that very famous image of Bob Beamon in '68. Have a look at Powell's pix now! __________________ F2.8 and be there

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode