1.3X Crop Factor

Discussion in 'Photography Equipment & Products' started by Tighearnach, Oct 21, 2009.

  1. Tighearnach

    Tighearnach TPF Noob!

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    I have noticed all the clamour regarding the 7d and now the Mark 4 Canon and i have noticed the Mark 4 is a 1.3x sensor.

    Am i right in saying that originally the 1.3x sensor originated before either Canon or Nikon had made a Full Frame camera?

    If thats the case then why persist with this format now when Full Frame is the norm for cameras priced above 2500. I can see the advantage in terms of wildlife and sports and also it seems like a happy medium between FF and 1.6 but if these cameras are costing 4000plus why havent canon put a FF sensor in and allowed the option of choosing a 1.3 crop factor (for the likes or wildlife etc). isnt this the case with Nikons D3s?

    Also if Canon believe based on current technology that the best image quality they can muster for a 1.3x sensor is with 16MP then why on earth would they make the 7D 18mp on a smaller sensor?

    P.S I still love you Canon........
     
  2. Big Mike

    Big Mike I am Big, I am Mike Staff Member Supporting Member

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    This is a somewhat polarizing issue. Many believe that the 1.3X crop is no longer needed and should just go away. However, the 1D line is Canon's Pro sports camera and most pro sports shooters enjoy the extra reach the get from the 1.3X crop factor.

    I don't know why they ended up with a 1.6 crop sensor with more MP than their 1.3 sensor...but it might have something to do with image processing speed and file size.
     
  3. inTempus

    inTempus TPF Noob!

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    I would hazard a guess and say Canon went with 16MP vs. 18MP or more on the new 1D4 to reduce noise and to be able to push the 1D4 well past the high ISO capabilities of the 7D.

    The 1.3x remains popular with the PJ and sport shooter crowd. Many people, like myself, wish it would just go away. The smaller sensor also allows Canon to easily pull off the 10fps shutter speed. With a larger sensor comes a larger mirror assembly. Also it becomes a challenge to process 24MP files at 10fps, assuming they would use a similar sensor as what's used in the 5D2.

    Nikon has pulled it off with their D3s though. They can do 9fps on a full frame body. Of course they're doing it with a 12MP sensor...

    With the Nikon you can also shoot in DX mode. They are only using a 1.5x crop of the full frame sensor when in this mode. It also allows the D3s to hit 11fps. This seems like a more logical and more useful solution than Canon continuing to have 1D and 1Ds models.

    Canon is just behind the times and still playing catch-up to Nikon.

    As long as people keep buying the 1.3 bodies in mass, Canon will keep producing them.
     
  4. Tighearnach

    Tighearnach TPF Noob!

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    "I would hazard a guess and say Canon went with 16MP vs. 18MP or more on the new 1D4 to reduce noise and to be able to push the 1D4 well past the high ISO capabilities of the 7D"

    Yep. Seems to me that as the technology advances the black and white distinction in terms of Image Quality between the Canons top bodies (1D/5D) and its recent lower ones (50D/7D) is becoming quite grey. Are they boosting MP in the lower lineup simply to retain this difference in Image Quality as best they can....

    Not that im completely anti MP. After thinking long and hard between a 2nd hand 5D1 or a 50D i have decided the 50D is for me. Cant wait.....
     
  5. Derrel

    Derrel Mr. Rain Cloud

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    Yes, Canon's very first professional, mass-market d-slr was the EOS 1D, which had a 4.15 megapixel NON-Canon-made CCD sensor. The camera came out in late 2001 as I recall, which was about one year before the 11-megapixel FF 1Ds came out. The 1D original model's total pixel count was 4.48 MP, but as is common, the "effective" MP count was 4.15MP. The camera fired at 8 fps,and its main competition were the Canon EOS D30, the FujiFilm FinePix S1-Pro,and the Nikon D1 and D1h bodies,and then the D1x. During 2001, in the same year as the EOS 1D, Kodak made the DCS 760, a 6.09 MP (effective MP) 1.3x d-slr that was the high-resolution champion, out-pixeling Nikon's 5.47 MP D1x, which was a 1.5x body.

    So, both Kodak and Canon had 1.3x bodies, on the market, before Canon ever had a FF 24x36 sensor camera for sale. Nikon and FujiFilm had 1.5x bodies at that time. Nikon and Kodak had higher-resolution, higher MP cameras, but Canon's original 4.15 MP 1.3x 1D CCD camera was a very fast,capable camera designed for sports and PJ uses,and was really a great camera for its era. It had 1/500 flash synch which is nice for flash.

    I still think the Canon brand's image quality edge lies with any of Canon's four recent FF bodies, 5D, 5D Mark II, or EOS 1D Mark II or Mark III (the 16.7MP and 21 MP models). I think the full-frame Canon cameras offer amazing image quality across a wide range of ISO settings, and with a lot of lenses.

    Full-frame has a sensor size of 864 square millimeters; APS-H or 1.3x has a sensor area that measures pretty much 548 square millilmeters, while 1.6x APS-C Canon measures 329 square millimeters. Nikon, Sony,and Pentax 1.5x sensors have an area of approximately 370 square millimeters.

    Nikon's new D3s revision can shoot Full Frame at 9FPS OR at 1.2x at 8MP, OR 1.5x at up to 11 FPS at 5 Megapixels, plus 5:4 or "8x10" aspect ratio. So, the D3s is in effect a three-format or maybe a four format camera,depending on how one looks at it. Nikon has been doing this full-sensor/reduced sensor capture since the D2x was announced in late 2004, and it seems like a pretty simple engineering system. I'm surprised Canon hasn't copied the concept. With a D3s a 300mm f/2.8 functions like a real 300mm, or a narrower-field 360mm f/2.8, or a 450mm f/2.8, all with large, super-high ISO capable large pixels well over 8 microns in area.

    By adding a 1.4x TC14e, the D3s shooter with a 300/2.8 can have lenses of 420mm f/4, plus a 504mm f/4 at 1.2x, and a 630mm f/4 at 1.5x FOV.

    Canon EOS-1D Review: 1. Introduction: Digital Photography Review
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2009
  6. inTempus

    inTempus TPF Noob!

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    LOL, these bots are getting not so creative.
     

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