5D or 5DmkII or 50D

[guitarkid]

Hey you guys, I know this has been brought up before but I have been searching the forum and reading everything I can and still can't decide. The long and short of it is this, we shoot bands, but mainly weddings. I have had the 20D, 30D, 40D and now the 50D. I have been told to stop wasting money by incremental upgrades and just go for FF, old 5D or 5DmkII. Now I don't have a lot of money, as with most of us but I want to make a good step up. The lenses I have currently that I use most: 70-200L F2.8 and 17-55F2.8. Now, I am selling the 17-55 to go with the 24-105L F4 as a main lens. I want all L glass. I have a sigma 10-22 and will use it if I keep the 50D. The plan was to keep the new 50D, which I love, and get an mkII to go FF with the L lenses....OR sell the 50D as well.

I am coming to you to see what is recommended for weddings. I keep reading about nature and landscapes but I don't do that much of that. I am in churches, some dark, and the 70-200L F2.8 suits me well but I may need more. Then there is flash for most of the rest of the day and backdrop with strobe. So, I have read the forums and am not crazy about the old 5D, etc, but don't need high fps. I don't like how the 5D doesn't have cleaning operation during powerdown and powerup. And, the 50D's sensor is newer than the 5D. Now I would love the HD video part of the mkII but I really don't need that since I have a Canon XHA1 HD cam for video that I paid a good penny for...we do video as well. Given all this info, what do you guys think. Thanks so much!
Steve

 

[TJ K]

Well if you're going to be shooting concerts in possibly low light and you need high iso pictures I would suggest the mkII because it's full frame with a bigger sensor.

 

[Big Mike]

If you can, I'd suggest borrowing or renting a 5D II and see if you like it. One thing I've heard about the 5D series is that the AF system is not as good as the newer XXD series...namely the 40D or 50D. For some people, the problem was that the spread of the AF points was very small on the full frame of the 5DII.

I've also heard some say that the 5DII's AF isn't all that bad...people just got into a fuss when it was released, which gave it a bad rep.

I really don't think there is a huge difference between the 50D and the 5DII. Although, if you shoot without flash, the 5DII probably gives you another stop or two of usable ISO settings...so that might be an issue. The 40D/50D shoot faster, if that is something you might use.

 

[Ls3D]

If you can afford the 5dmII go for it! The ability to shoot through ALL your nice lenses could really complement the XHA1. Since you need the 24-105mm you can get the L-series 'kit' lens and save about $200 (us).

Saying goodbye to crop factor is one huge thing, and pulling focus and creating compositions with that slightly larger viewfinder is wonderful after dealing with 1.6 models. Not a huge physical difference but it sure sold me.

The issue about the AF system is something to consider, I mostly shoot MF so I've hardly experienced the AF system in the month or so that I've had her.

Love to explore the deep pixel space on winner shots!

-Shea

 

[Village Idiot]

The 5D MKII AF has worked so far. I've only had a few times where I'm hunting for docus, but usually I'm shooting at 6400 ISO and I have to find a contrast line to focus on. Nothing different from my 30D as far as being able to get focus. My butt dyno is telling me that the focusing is a tad bit slower. I'm shooting with lenses that mostly have the USM focusing motor, so they're pretty fast anyways.

I can't wait to take it to the local road course fore a WERA or AMA race and see how it does.

 

[guitarkid]

thanks guys! although it is frustrating, especially financially, trying to decide, it's always fun learning about the details and digging deep. I looked through a 5D once and saw the world "open up." I liked it. If I could get the sick money together, I may do it...the mkII. Too bad they don't have an mkII without video, making it less $$.

 

[LiveWave]

If you're going to the 50D route, save the money and go with a 40D, the 50D's extra MP come at a cost of noise performance and the few extra performance features are not worth the extra money.

 

[Iron Flatline]

Looks like you have two-but-not-three problem:

You can have:

Full-frame (5D Mk I, 5D Mk II)
reasonable cost (5D Mk I, 50D)
High ISO (50D, 5D Mk II)

Which matters to the way you shoot?

 

[FidelCastrovich]

If you're going to the 50D route, save the money and go with a 40D, the 50D's extra MP come at a cost of noise performance and the few extra performance features are not worth the extra money.

This is a statement based on personal experience and thorough comparisons and testing you conducted?

 

[Village Idiot]

Looks like you have two-but-not-three problem:

You can have:

Full-frame (5D Mk I, 5D Mk II)
reasonable cost (5D Mk I, 50D)
High ISO (50D, 5D Mk II)

Which matters to the way you shoot?

I don't think the 50D compares to the 5D MKII in the ISO arena.

 

[dtornabene1]

I don't think the 50D compares to the 5D MKII in the ISO arena.

I have both and yes, the 50D compares to the 5D MII. I use the 5D MII and the 50D together. This allows the full frame functionality of the 5D MII, and the telephoto range and cost savings of the 50D.

I hate to burst the 5D MII bubble (because it is an amazing camera), but the technology is the same in both. Yeah, the 5D MII is full frame, however, the pixel technology is exactly the same. Both feature 14 bit A/D conversion and both possess the DiG!C IV chip.

The 5D MII is better constructed for the elements, but if this was your issue, you skip the 5D MII and head straight for the 1D line. It's the same chip, the same sensor (just smaller on the 50D), same 14 A/D conversion.

By the 5D MII if you really want a full frame camera. Otherwise, wait later this year when Canon releases the DiG!C V chip in the new 1D line.

You get live view in both, you get silent shooting in both, you get everything in both except HD video. You wanted a cheaper version of the 5D MII without HD video, buy the 50D.

Big Mike is right on with the suggestion of trying it before you buy. But I will tell you, those that say there is a noise reduction difference between the two cameras, have no idea how they work.

Noise comes from heat on the sensor, long exposures, stray electronic information at across the sensor sites, and sensor sensitivity. It's the same damn sensor! The processing is the same, the chipset is even the same!

In your case, buy the L series glass far before you buy any camera body. Better yet, buy the L series glass and the 50D. You will see a drastic improvements in your photographs from better glass far before you will realize results in an upgraded body.

Sorry guys, it's not as though I don't like it. Hell, I own it. But the cold hard fact is 50D is perfect for what guitar kid is looking for.

-Nick

P.S. Let the hate mail come forth!!! Well, at least I'm used to it.

 

[Village Idiot]

I have both and yes, the 50D compares to the 5D MII. I use the 5D MII and the 50D together. This allows the full frame functionality of the 5D MII, and the telephoto range and cost savings of the 50D.

I hate to burst the 5D MII bubble (because it is an amazing camera), but the technology is the same in both. Yeah, the 5D MII is full frame, however, the pixel technology is exactly the same. Both feature 14 bit A/D conversion and both possess the DiG!C IV chip.

The 5D MII is better constructed for the elements, but if this was your issue, you skip the 5D MII and head straight for the 1D line. It's the same chip, the same sensor (just smaller on the 50D), same 14 A/D conversion.

By the 5D MII if you really want a full frame camera. Otherwise, wait later this year when Canon releases the DiG!C V chip in the new 1D line.

You get live view in both, you get silent shooting in both, you get everything in both except HD video. You wanted a cheaper version of the 5D MII without HD video, buy the 50D.

Big Mike is right on with the suggestion of trying it before you buy. But I will tell you, those that say there is a noise reduction difference between the two cameras, have no idea how they work.

Noise comes from heat on the sensor, long exposures, stray electronic information at across the sensor sites, and sensor sensitivity. It's the same damn sensor! The processing is the same, the chipset is even the same!

In your case, buy the L series glass far before you buy any camera body. Better yet, buy the L series glass and the 50D. You will see a drastic improvements in your photographs from better glass far before you will realize results in an upgraded body.

Sorry guys, it's not as though I don't like it. Hell, I own it. But the cold hard fact is 50D is perfect for what guitar kid is looking for.

-Nick

P.S. Let the hate mail come forth!!! Well, at least I'm used to it.

Noise comparison showing the 5D MKII handling noise better than the 50D.
Canon EOS 5D Mark II Digital SLR Camera Review

The 5D MKII has the pixel density of an 8mp Canon APS-C sensor. When you put more pixels on a sensor, you get more noise. Larger pixels are better at handling noise. That's why the original 5D was such an acclaimed camera. For the cost, you get a full frame DSLR that blew away anything in the APS-C / 4/3rds format in terms of noise handling, including some cameras two and three generations newer.

Plus if you want to "cheat" and making the comparison even more unfair by evening up the ball field, you can downsize the 5D MKII files to 15mp and they'll show even less noise.

Seeing the photos in the above comparions, I'd hesitate to shoot at 6400 ISO with the 50D where as since I've owned the 5D MKII, I've been shooting between 1600-6400 ISO pretty much the whole time.

Edit: And the technology obviously isn't the same in both. In one of the press releases, Canon stated that the 5D MKII had an improved version of the 1Ds MKIII sensor.

Plus if the cameras had the same technology, the 5D MKII would have a 40mp (or whatever is equal to the same pixel density as a 15mp APS-C sensor) and the 50D would have had the issue with the black dots.

It's not the exact same technology.

 

[Ls3D]

Right, the 50D has the highest sensor density @ 4.5 mp/square cm and is gapless, while the 5DmII is 2.4 mp/cm2. Lower density, larger photosite, better ISO performance.

I've stayed away from ISO 6400, but the year is young.

-Shea

 

[Village Idiot]

I like ISO 6400.

 

[dtornabene1]

Noise comparison showing the 5D MKII handling noise better than the 50D.

Canon EOS 5D Mark II Digital SLR Camera Review

The 5D MKII has the pixel density of an 8mp Canon APS-C sensor. When you put more pixels on a sensor, you get more noise. Larger pixels are better at handling noise. That's why the original 5D was such an acclaimed camera. For the cost, you get a full frame DSLR that blew away anything in the APS-C / 4/3rds format in terms of noise handling, including some cameras two and three generations newer.

Plus if you want to "cheat" and making the comparison even more unfair by evening up the ball field, you can downsize the 5D MKII files to 15mp and they'll show even less noise.

Seeing the photos in the above comparions, I'd hesitate to shoot at 6400 ISO with the 50D where as since I've owned the 5D MKII, I've been shooting between 1600-6400 ISO pretty much the whole time.

Edit: And the technology obviously isn't the same in both. In one of the press releases, Canon stated that the 5D MKII had an improved version of the 1Ds MKIII sensor.

Plus if the cameras had the same technology, the 5D MKII would have a 40mp (or whatever is equal to the same pixel density as a 15mp APS-C sensor) and the 50D would have had the issue with the black dots.

It's not the exact same technology.

You are comparing the wrong cameras. It is the 5D MII and the 50D, not the 1Ds MIII. In your last paragraph you made a comparison of the right cameras, see below.

Right, the 50D has the highest sensor density @ 4.5 mp/square cm and is gapless, while the 5DmII is 2.4 mp/cm2. Lower density, larger photosite, better ISO performance.

I've stayed away from ISO 6400, but the year is young.

-Shea

Read the question from the person needing help. This isn't a "Mine is bigger" contest. The fact is he is asking if there is proper justification in purchasing the 5D MII with its' added expense.

The simple answer is no. What is he shooting and what are his needs? Not, what camera is better. If that was the case, we would all be wrong and why not just suggest medium format?

To end all questions I have Email Canon directly. I will cut and paste their response into this forum with no edits. This sort of hijacks this thread. He is not looking for this information.

I have both cameras, and in any, I repeat, any lighting situation with L series glass, there should never be an instance where shooting a wedding requires more than an ISO of 3200. Frankly, 1600 should be your limit and there is little reason to go past 800.

These clients order prints as large (and sometimes larger) than 30 x 20. I don't care if you have the 5D MII or the 1Ds MIII or the 50D. Shoot at anything higher than ISO of 1600 and the client orders a 30 x 20 print, you're dead.

You are all thinking like photographers, not specifically as wedding photographers. The 50D is perfect. There are still those out there using the 20D and the 1Ds MI. How are their pictures so perfect? Because of their knowledge of lighting and eye for aperture.

Too many people think that advancements in cameras remove photographic skill. That's just stupid. I personally know four wedding photographers who can shoot using a 20D and produce photographs better than anyone on this forum (especially me). I am not trying to say I'm better, just know the purpose of the thread.

It irritates me when people just use technical specifications to give advice. That is also stupid. This is a business. If you run your business based on technical specifications you will buy cameras all the time and will loose focus on photographic skill.

The smart business decision is to go with the 50D. For those who care to argue about sensors, first own both cameras and show me the difference using L series glass at ISO 800. You will see zero difference in noise between the two. Second, I will posts Canon's response.

Lastly, anyone who believes the 5D MII is a better camera than the 1Ds MIII has never owned or shot with a 1Ds camera. There is no comparison. Technically specifications aside, Nikon's D3X and Canon's 1Ds MIII are the best cameras in 35mm, bar none.

Here is the Email question sent to Canon:

I can not find this information on your site anywhere. What is the sensor difference between the 5D Mark II and the 50D? In-other-words, I am trying to compare the sensors independently of other features. Besides one being full frame and more mega pixels, I don't see a difference between the sensors. What is the difference between the two?

And folks, if you are going to quote specifications, site your resources.

-Nick