5D vs. 40D

[MarcusM]

I don't know why I'm in a "versus" thread-creating mode, but this is my 2nd recently.

Anyway, I think the title pretty much sums it up. I pretty much had my sights on the 5D until this past weekend when I stopped by a local camera store and was talking to the rep, who basically tried to talk me out of getting a 5D in favor of the 40D because it's more bang for the buck. Now, for a sales rep to actually try to "downsell" me, that says a lot.

Can I get your thoughts, would it be wiser to get the 40D and then have money for more glass instead?

From what I hear I wouldn't be disappointed with the 40D...it's just that the 5D has SUCH a good reputation!

 

[S2K1]

They're two completely different cameras. It depends on what you want to shoot. The 40D has an APS-C Sensor and shoots 6.5fps while the 5D is full frame and 3fps. Ask yourself what you want to shoot. The 5D will go wider, but the 40D will go longer with equivalent lenses.

 

[notelliot]

you would need L glass to really make the 5D shine, as i am told. i would advise you to buy the 40D and some nice lenses.
save for a 5D or 5DmkII whatever.. the 40D is your new backup body, or decent percentage off the cost of your upgrade.

 

[MarcusM]

They're two completely different cameras. It depends on what you want to shoot. The 40D has an APS-C Sensor and shoots 6.5fps while the 5D is full frame and 3fps. Ask yourself what you want to shoot. The 5D will go wider, but the 40D will go longer with equivalent lenses.

Thanks, I'm aware of that. While I think the 3 fps would suffice for my purposes, it would be nice to have the 6.5 fps when needed.

So speaking of the full frame, that brings up a question. I had assumed, based on the general rule of thumb that as soon as you make an enlargement, whether it be from image sensor or film, that you immediately lose quality, therefore, similar to how a medium format film is crisper than a 35 mm film, I assumed that the full frame sensor would produce higher quality photos than the APS-C sensor, and also have better dynamic range, but the rep didn't seem to think it really mattered in that aspect.

So I guess what I'm getting at, is why would I not choose the 40D (other than the crop factor, since I can use any lens that works on the 5D with the 40D, right?)

 

[Matthew Craggs]

since I can use any lens that works on the 5D with the 40D, right?

You can't necessarily use any lens on both the 5D or the 40D. The 5D won't take EF-S lenses.

 

[frXnz kafka]

You can't necessarily use any lens on both the 5D or the 40D. The 5D won't take EF-S lenses.

But if it works on the 5D, it'll work on the 40D. Which is what he was saying

 

[MarcusM]

But if it works on the 5D, it'll work on the 40D. Which is what he was saying

yep, that's what I was saying, thanks

 

[DSLR noob]

Get the 5D, the way a 40D makes lenses act longer can be replicated by cropping the image you take on a 5D, you can't do the same to make a 40D act like a 5D.

 

[MarcusM]

Get the 5D, the way a 40D makes lenses act longer can be replicated by cropping the image you take on a 5D, you can't do the same to make a 40D act like a 5D.

ok, I've had a really hard time trying to grasp the whole crop factor thing correctly. I've heard some people say that the smaller sensors essentially give you extra zoom with the same lenses that give the specified focal range for larger image sensors. Then I've heard that you don't really get extra focal length, you just loose out on some of what the lens really sees as opposed to the same lens on a full frame sensor. I've also read a fair amount but still am having trouble fully understanding what really happens. Does anyone know of a website that really explains this well? (and correctly?)

 

[DSLR noob]

It's not that hard to grasp. The sensor on the Canon Rebels and X0D series cameras have a crop value of 1.6 because they are smaller. it'd be the same as taking the 5D or 1Ds sensors and cutting off the edges. So when you pull it out of camera, it looks more zoomed in. but really, the area around it is just missing so you see a smaller part of the image, if that image is displaying on your computer full screen, you think you had been zoomed in more that if you viewed the full frame image full screen, because it would have more around the edges meaning that it'd fill your screen first, digitally enlarge/zoom in one more time to push the extra data around the edges of the frame off of the computer screen, and you're viewing the "closer" image from the smaller sensor. Larger sensors also have more room for larger pixels, meaning you'd have better low light, high ISO performance.

 

[astrostu]

ok, I've had a really hard time trying to grasp the whole crop factor thing correctly. I've heard some people say that the smaller sensors essentially give you extra zoom with the same lenses that give the specified focal range for larger image sensors. Then I've heard that you don't really get extra focal length, you just loose out on some of what the lens really sees as opposed to the same lens on a full frame sensor. I've also read a fair amount but still am having trouble fully understanding what really happens. Does anyone know of a website that really explains this well? (and correctly?)

There are a few things to keep in mind with a cropped sensor. The basic idea is that the sensor itself is physically smaller (APS-C sensors are 22.5 mm wide as opposed to 36 mm wide, for example). The lens projects the same image on the focal plane, where the sensor sits, regardless of the sensor size. If the sensor is physically larger, though, then it will capture a wider image since it will be able to record more of what the lens is projecting. This is equivalent to an extra zoom for cropped sensors since they see a narrower view. So the latter explanation is more technically correct, but the end result is the same.

An advantage of full-frame sensors - besides being able to see a wider field of view - is that for the same number of pixels as on a crop sensor, the physical size of the pixels is larger (e.g., 1000 pixels over 22.5 mm vs 1000 px over 36 mm gives pixels that are 1.6x larger on a side, or have 2.56x more area). The advantage of larger pixels is that the noise properties are better - all other things being equal - which will give you a better image.

A disadvantage of full-frame sensors is that Canon's EF-S lenses are designed for the cropped sensors. This means that the image they project is optimized for only that 22.5 mm size, and a larger sensor will record a heavy vignette around the edges. I believe that's why Canon only makes a 10-22 mm EF-S lens and not a 10-22 mm EF lens - it's easier to get that smaller field than a "perfect" larger field.

 

[Samurai Photographer]

I owned a 20D before upgrading to a 5D. The image quality of the 5D is much better. Another benefit of a larger sensor is less noise at high ISOs. I've shot pictures at ISO 1600 that have very little noise, even in the shadow areas. A friend owns a 30D, which has a sensor that is the same size as a 40D. He recently shot a wedding at ISO 1600 and had lots of noise in the shadow areas of the image.

 

[Big Mike]

I owned a 20D before upgrading to a 5D. The image quality of the 5D is much better. Another benefit of a larger sensor is less noise at high ISOs. I've shot pictures at ISO 1600 that have very little noise, even in the shadow areas. A friend owns a 30D, which has a sensor that is the same size as a 40D. He recently shot a wedding at ISO 1600 and had lots of noise in the shadow areas of the image.

The large sensor of the 5D, certainly does produce an outstanding image quality.
Just to clarify...The sensor in the 20D and 30D is the same...the 40D has newer sensor. Also the 40D has the Digic III processor, I think the other cameras have an older Digic II processor.

 

[ddm1975]

LOL Marcus! I haven't been on here in a while; but I see you still haven't decided. I'm still trying to decide from the 5D or wait! My 20D is doing fine while I wait though! Good luck and let us know!

 

[Alex_B]

Isn't the price of the 5D dropping and dropping? It is a nice camera, I would get one .... if I didn't already have one for a long time.

But then again, it depends what you want to do with it. the 40D is certainly a nice camera as well. In image quality not quite on the same level, but very close to the 5D (so everyone I know said).

Just decide if you really want full frame, or not. do you need an on camera flash? do you need this sensor cleaning thing of the 40D? For me the answers would be yes no no ... and hence it is an eas ydecision. might be different for you