A beginner in need of advice

nitefly · Jan 3, 2006

Hi all!!

I have only just joined this forum after getting a simple digital camera for christmas and I've recently decided I want to try and get into photography a little bit. This is the first time I've ever had my own camera - except from disposables haha!! :er:

The camera I have is a HP Photosmart E317...

Now my first question is how do I take one of those photos where the object is non-blurry but the background is blurry. An example of what I mean is below:

http://www.angelsix.com/forumplus/angelsix-photography/images/restingbee.jpg

credit to http://www.angelsix.com this picture is not my work but is Luke Malpass'

Another thing I would like to know about, is touching photographs up using Photoshop. Now as a web design, i'm already experienced in photoshop but i've never learnt how to edit photos to make the look bright and sharp etc.

I thankyou in advance as I am pretty sure I will get some valuable help from people round here. I really would appreciate advice.

Many thanks,

Nathan.

Hertz van Rental · Jan 3, 2006

Here is a good place to start.
http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3028
The blurry background thing is called 'shallow depth of field'.
You get it by focussing on the object and using a large aperture (small f-number).
Reading the thread will explain more.

nitefly · Jan 3, 2006

Thanks for the quick reply!! Do you think that would work with my camera? Specs are here: http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/uk/en/ho/WF06a/5043-5683-5887-5887-12322382-12174406.html

Hertz van Rental · Jan 3, 2006

Afraid it will be tricky as you don't appear to be able to adjust aperture or put it on priority.
The only thing I can suggest is to try shooting in a mode that uses a big aperture. 'Action' is probably the best one.
In photography (both digital and film) once you start trying to get 'fancy' you can soon discover limitations to your equipment.

PS On a Mod note.
If the picture you posted above isn't yours, is it possible to just put a link to the site? Or give a credit?
The Copyright monster rears it's ugly head.
Thanks
HvR

nitefly · Jan 3, 2006

Ok I think I've figured out that Macro and Normal is something to do with the f/stop.. My camera only has macro and normal modes so does this mean I wont be able to achieve this effect?

Sorry about the image copyright btw, ive changed it now.

Big Mike · Jan 4, 2006

Welcome to the forum.

As far as I know, macro mode allows you to focus on a subject that is closer to the lens, than would be possible in regular mode. I'm not sure that it affects the aperture setting.

Although, using macro mode might help you to get the shallow DOF if you get close to your subject and leave the background far away.

It's great that you want to learn more about photography, it's a lot of fun. However, you will soon discover, if not already, that a lot of point & shoot digital cameras are no better than disposables. All they do is point & shoot.
That does not mean you can't take good photos with them...it just means that you don't have much control over how the camera behaves...which makes it hard to get what you want...and almost impossible to experiment with 'typical' photography techniques.

The usual advice is to pick up an old manual SLR camera. Something like a Pentax K or Canon AE-1 etc. The idea being that it's easier to learn photography without all the bells & whistles (& auto everything) that a modern camera has.

Rob · Jan 4, 2006

Hi Nathan,

Firstly, welcome! The shot you've shown there is a close-up with low depth-of-field. If you visualise you taking a picture and you had a bamboo pole in front of you, the depth of field would be the bit of the pole which is in focus. You could paint it red and measure it and say that for example ten centimeters of the picture were in focus. The shot you've posted is an example of a very small depth of field - probably around one to ten centimetres. This is achieved with a low f-number or a wide aperture as we like to call them.

Small digital cameras have several disadvantages - the lens is usually pretty much automatic and fixed which allows you to take great pictures with everything in focus. Also, the smaller the sensor size and the lower it's quality/fidelity, the less realistic the depth-of-field effect (bokeh) is. Digital cameras have a habit of flattening an image anyway, but ones with tiny sensors are exceptionally prone to this. The shot you've chosen would look probably look faked, or wierd if you took it with a small compact digital.

Sadly you're in a situation where your camera is unlikely to be able to produce credible images which have this depth-of-field effect as you are unlikely to be able to achieve a low f-number or a satisfactory edge/bokeh boundary.

Perhaps the January sales might turn up a slightly more versatile higher-specified camera if you're set on taking low DOF shots? There's some good little ones out there which are affordable.

Hope this helps!

Rob

nitefly · Jan 4, 2006

Great! Thanks for the replies, really appreciated. I'm only 14 at the moment and don't have a real source of money, so the amount of money I have to spend is limited - however photography is actually something i'd like to get into more and my birthday is coming up!

Do you have any specific recomendations of a camera that would be suitable for a beginner and wouldn't be overly expensive - most important thing is that I get a camera which will allow me to learn how to take good photos.

Many thanks,

Natha.

nitefly · Jan 4, 2006

Also, if anyone who would be kind enough to advise me can add me to MSN at nitefly [at] gmail.com..

DLL_4ever · Jan 4, 2006

/\ it depends... what is your budget?

At the moment, i have a "normal" $430 point and shoot compact camera... still, i'm able to take cool shots like these:
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y198/DLL10101/oakwoodwinter/14.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y198/DLL10101/oakwoodwinter/15.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y198/DLL10101/animals/4.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y198/DLL10101/torontowinter/35.jpg
(all these photos are mine, BTW)

It will take you a while to learn how to use your camera properly, and to learn the many different photography techniques.. it took me about 4 months, atleast. And im still not done learning. But it's worth it!

And by participating on photography forums, like this one, and others (like dpreview.com), you'll be able to learn everything a lot quicker. The best thing to do though, is to just keep taking nonstop pictures of whatever the hell you feel like. Even if its a tissue box, TV, or something stupid like that

The more you practice, the smarter/more experienced and overall better you'll become as a photographer.

With regarding photoshop, Click on "Image" on the top menu-bar. Then click on "Adjustments". There, you will be able to change the level, contrast, colour, brightness, etc. and whatever else needs to be done to the photo. That will also take a while though to learn and get used to, so be patient

I also recommend you get a program called "Neat Image". It reduces the noise level in your photos, which is a huge problem for many photographers.

Good luck! And welcome to the forum BTW :cheers:

nitefly · Jan 5, 2006

My budget would be about £350 max.

DLL_4ever · Jan 5, 2006

For that kind of money, you could get a:

Panasonic DMC-FZ5 (which is actually £360, but trust me, it would be worth it!! You could probably find it cheaper other places on the net, £360 is just the "street price")

I gotta go to work now, when i get back i'll try to find some more for ya. Until then, i suggest looking at dpreview.com and check out all the cameras there. It has every tiny bit of info about every single digital camera that existed after 1998

and it'll always give you prices (in $US and sometimes in £) It's really awesome.

DLL_4ever · Jan 5, 2006

Here's a few more:

Panasonic Lumix DMC-FX7 ( - £300 - Not quite as nice as the FZ5, but it's still a good beginner camera)

Panasonic Lumix DMC-LZ2 ( - £240 - This is the one i currently own. And its the one i used when taking the sample pictures that i posted earlier in this thread. It's defidentally an awesome starter camera.)

Kodak EasyShare Z740 ( - £220 - This is a really great camera aswell. It looks cool, it's small/light/easy to use, and it has an awesome 10x optical zoom.)

Canon PowerShot A620 ( - £240 - Also a very good starter camera. It's a 7.1MP camera with 4x optical zoom, and many other neat features.)

That'll due... there are of course many more... but IMO, none of them beat, or even come close, to the Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ5.

It has 12x optical zoom and image stabilization (which are both amazing features to have. You wont find that in many compact cameras, especially not for that low price!)

SepiaTL · Jan 6, 2006

Hey nitefly,

Glad to see another teenager in the forum! :lmao:

I'm 17 and have been interested in photography for a year or two. My first camera didn't have a manual mode either, and that can get really frustrating. Like you, money was a big issue. Still, I was able to work around it and actually came up with a pretty nice portfolio for my senior thesis project.

The biggest thing is to get online or go to a library and look up basic info on photography. Learn about aperture and shutter speed, f-stops, film speed, etc. That helped me more than anything.

The next thing is to get a camera with a few more capabilities, as some of the others suggested. DLL_4ever mentioned the Cannon PowerShot A620. I just got one of these and have been impressed with its capabilities, considering it isn't a DSLR (learn about SLRs too :mrgreen

. It was inexpensive (around $400 USD).

I also like the idea of getting an old piece of crap manual SLR. Don't put a lot of money into it. Sure, you'll have to pay for film developing, but you'll learn real photography.

Good luck!