A little honesty

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ETA - I'm having a really bad day. If this came off sounding crabby, it honestly wasn't meant to.

Hey, no worries. It's not like an end of the world kind of thing, just frustration. I'm sorry about the bad day though... if it makes you feel any better I just went to get crab legs (my FAVE!) and they were cold and way too expensive! lol :hugs:
 
This is true, but my comment could include people other than the general public, right? Basically anyone that needs nice images that isn't qualified to do it themselves, whether that be soccer mommies or business owners - they are all nonprofessionals as far as photography goes.

Sounds logical, but it is a little more complex than that in reality. Pro photographers within organizations, business, or the public sector are often working for administrators with pro photography experience or for editors or art directors with considerable experience in composition, colour, lighting and technical excellence from the evaluation standpoint.
They are as professional as the photographer despite not being able to handle a camera.

skieur
 
ETA - I'm having a really bad day. If this came off sounding crabby, it honestly wasn't meant to.

Sounds reasonable and not crabby to me. :D

skieur
 
And since anyone can claim to be anything on a forum like this, is it not better to just take the comments on their own merit?

It is not quite that simple. Anyone can claim to be anything but your posts and critiques display your knowledge of photography or lack thereof.
Read samples of anyone's posts and you can get a good sense of their experience and expertise in the area.

skieur
 
If I could interject an opinion. I don't think I am unique to how this thing works. You post a photo and wait for comments. While you're waiting for feedback, it's too easy to just troll along and browse the titles for something interesting. The majority of the time, any new post I clicked on has little to do with the particular forum it was actually posted in. Sometimes it's the title, sometimes it's the OP, sometimes it the last responder that gets my attention.

I think for me, I am drawn to a few certain posters and responders. I have developed an affinity towards certain avatars either because of their advice, critique, professionalism or sense of humor and those attributes are something I appreciate.

I can appreciate what Allsmiles is implying. However, I would like to think that anyone that has an opinion on this forum is valid. I certainly disagree with several, am dumbfounded by others and get pissed off by a small percentage. But the great leveling field is that ALL responders to posts have three things that cannot be denied....eyes, grey matter and an opinion.

Those three characteristics are what drew me to TPF and they are what keep me coming back. If there was a definite professional forum within TPF, I would certainly respect it's membership. But until that time, I wish to have my voice heard and I have absolutely no problem if someone calls bull**** on any comment I have ever made on any post whatsoever.
 
After reading this, it makes me fearful to even post in the professional gallery anymore. I have been a wildlife and nature photographer for over a decade. My work sells. I take commissions. Now, I am starting portrait photography. All my learning has been through books, trial and error, and bending the ear of someone kind enough to help. Should I take courses to become better quicker? Sure! Can I? Not on your life; I have a mortage to pay. When I graduated high school, my parents told me they would pay for my education as long as I didn't study anything art related. I envy those of you who were able to get a solid photography education. Now, after reading this thread, I feel like I'm the kid with the cold who has to stay inside, while pressing my nose against the window watching the other kids play. Now I'm not sure if I belong in this neighborhood...
 

Yes! I couldn't agree with you more! And moving on...

Nah, Wildmaven, don't feel that way! If you haven't questioned, up to this point, whether or not you belong in the pro forum, why second-guess yourself now? Your photos are a lot better than plenty of stuff posted on this site, both in and out of the business section. And you're only going to get better, the more you practice, the more you post, and the more you learn from your peers.

I think another factor to take into account, besides the mere quality of the photography, is the intent behind the work. If we're talking about some mom posting pictures of her son just because he's cute, well, she should probably know better than to post in the professional gallery. And yes, when so many don't know better, cases like that can become tiresome. But if we're dealing with someone who - while their pictures may not yet be any technically better than that mother's snapshots - is really, truly trying to become proficient and skilled as a photographer, I wouldn't mind them posting in the professional gallery. I'd just hope that the response they received would be constructive, and that they'd actually learn something for next time.

If you are a seasoned pro and you come across someone that is not yet so talented why not offer up a few tips? I'm sure it's incredibly intimidating for some beginners to post their work here (I know it was really hard for me to post my first pictures - What a nerve-racking experience!). If, after my first post, I had someone simply tell me to take a class, and not to come back until I knew what I was doing, I would probably never post again, either in the pro forum or anywhere else. Keeping this in mind, I'd never say anything like that to anyone else; I'd first want to commend their effort and then try to help them in any way I could. I'm just not about isolating others, making them feel like they don't belong, or driving them off the forums.

The $00.02 of a newbie.
 
I think another factor to take into account, besides the mere quality of the photography, is the intent behind the work. If we're talking about some mom posting pictures of her son just because he's cute, well, she should probably know better than to post in the professional gallery. And yes, when so many don't know better, cases like that can become tiresome. But if we're dealing with someone who - while their pictures may not yet be any technically better than that mother's snapshots - is really, truly trying to become proficient and skilled as a photographer, I wouldn't mind them posting in the professional gallery. I'd just hope that the response they received would be constructive, and that they'd actually learn something for next time.

I totally agree with you here and this is what I'm trying to say. However, I refuse to believe that people who continually post pictures with a mere "cc" are not truly trying to learn. That's part of my beef. If you are truly trying to learn you ask for specifics. Ya know?
 
When I graduated high school, my parents told me they would pay for my education as long as I didn't study anything art related. I envy those of you who were able to get a solid photography education.

BTW...both of my parents are intellectuals and fored me to follow suit. (no art related degrees) I studied Organic Chemistry and after graduation I did what I had to to learn Photography. (including doing grunt work at photography studios!) So you are not alone, dont through the pity part just yet. ;)
 
Well this door swings both ways to be honest with you. While I am a professional and do fairly well. I have a few non-professional friends who have forgotten more about photography than most professionals will ever know. And the funny thing is they won't come to photography forums because of the few "arrogant" pro's they've seen on them. And by no means am I calling anyone here arrogant, you may be I just don't know any of you well enough to form that opinion for myself LOL. Anyway they would much rather deal with the beginners than the pro's and let me tell you these three guys (2 guys 1 woman sorry) do outstanding things with a camera. I am personally honored anytime they are willing to even knock my photos because right afterwards comes real hard earned knowledge in ways (not one way but several) in how to fix or do differently what I have done. So I believe if you cut out the non-pro's you may be cutting out some amazing experience and knowledge and maybe some great questions asked by some clueless beginner that answers a question or two for a pro.
 
Well this door swings both ways to be honest with you. While I am a professional and do fairly well. I have a few non-professional friends who have forgotten more about photography than most professionals will ever know. And the funny thing is they won't come to photography forums because of the few "arrogant" pro's they've seen on them. And by no means am I calling anyone here arrogant, you may be I just don't know any of you well enough to form that opinion for myself LOL. Anyway they would much rather deal with the beginners than the pro's and let me tell you these three guys (2 guys 1 woman sorry) do outstanding things with a camera. I am personally honored anytime they are willing to even knock my photos because right afterwards comes real hard earned knowledge in ways (not one way but several) in how to fix or do differently what I have done. So I believe if you cut out the non-pro's you may be cutting out some amazing experience and knowledge and maybe some great questions asked by some clueless beginner that answers a question or two for a pro.

This may be true but those that you are speaking of are definetly the exception instead of the rule.
 
That's part of my beef. If you are truly trying to learn you ask for specifics. Ya know?

I guess so. But at the same time, it could be a matter of beginners just not knowing what to specifically ask.

And true, merely saying "CC" doesn't automatically make one a serious student of photography. But at the very least, you know right off that bat that they are looking for more than cookie-cutter responses and praise. I think people honestly looking for critique care less about the five people who say "Oh wow, I love this!" than the one person who says "I like what you did there, but here's where you could improve ..." Those are the posts to really take to heart. So while "CC" may not be the most in-depth plea for help, it's a start.
 
I guess so. But at the same time, it could be a matter of beginners just not knowing what to specifically ask.
So while "CC" may not be the most in-depth plea for help, it's a start.

I agree but I still say that the pro gallery is not the place for this. I go there to get inspored by other seasoned photographers, not to see beginner after beginner.
 
BTW...both of my parents are intellectuals and fored me to follow suit. (no art related degrees) I studied Organic Chemistry and after graduation I did what I had to to learn Photography. (including doing grunt work at photography studios!) So you are not alone, dont throw the pity part just yet. ;)

I'm a one-woman pity party lately. Sometimes it flows out onto the boards unintentionally. I have a disease which is affecting my ability to see, and I wonder if I'll even be able to be a photographer much longer. :confused:

Chemistry, eh? I'm in Nuclear Medicine! :thumbup:

Nah, Wildmaven, don't feel that way! If you haven't questioned, up to this point, whether or not you belong in the pro forum, why second-guess yourself now? Your photos are a lot better than plenty of stuff posted on this site, both in and out of the business section. And you're only going to get better, the more you practice, the more you post, and the more you learn from your peers.

(((Hugs))) Thank you. You have no idea how much I needed to hear that right now. :hug::

I agree but I still say that the pro gallery is not the place for this. I go there to get inspored by other seasoned photographers, not to see beginner after beginner.

Therein lies the problem. I've found sensational ideas put forth by beginners. Sometimes beginners can look at your photo with new eyes and perhaps see something you haven't even thought about. Yes, we beginners can ask lots of questions and be a pain in the rear sometimes, but we also are filled with a fire to learn. We haven't seen 5,000 photos of a bride running down a hill, hand in hand, with her future husband, so we think it's exciting and will reply in kind. When a professional board loses that excitement, that "wow" factor, then I'd rather not be a part of it.

Perhaps the beginners, "the mom's", know that they will get better replies from the pros.

Maybe instead of trying to restrict the pro section, we should have a "Pro Evaluation" section instead, where non-pros can post their photos for the pros to critique? I know many here who would love to be a part of that! And, it would give those errant posts in the pro section a place in which to be moved.

Marian
 
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