Aggression towards photographers

Para · Mar 30, 2008

Hi I am compiling complaints from photographers who have been stopped by the police, Community Support Officers, or any other public body and any private security guard from taking a photograph legally that means on any public property, areas that allow photography.
I am compiling this as a demonstration that it is increasingly difficult to take a photograph without interference, the new Home Security Laws are going to make it more difficult. The Met Police are now saying phone us and we will decide if a person is taking a photograph who we think is suspicious even if its a mobile phone camera.
Private security companies are not getting in on the act.
So if you wish to be able to take a photograph in a public place without the fear of being arrested and branded a terrorist or a pedophile send your email with your complaint with time and date, be as informative as possible, I have a Member of the Scottish Parliament who I am in contact about this he has already contacted the Justice Secretary to press concerns
Email me your complaints to:
[email protected]
Stand up for your rights to keep your hobby and your living.
Pete

Battou · Mar 30, 2008

I have a feeling this one is going to become a rollercoaster just like the last one.

Alex_B · Mar 30, 2008

Well, I have been stopped and searched by Met Police once. They were pretty polite and did not interfere with my photography other than stealing some of my time.

private security, however, can be quite a different story.

Battou · Mar 30, 2008

I've been stopped by both, Police and Private security. The police officer was genuinly curious, and the private security guard thought I was setting up a rifel on my tripod. Upon sheading a little light on things with his portable flood light only to find a camera, he then inquired if I had photographed any UFOs.

Alex_B · Mar 30, 2008

Battou said:
he then inquired if I had photographed any UFOs.

You certainly were not so stupid to tell him that you got any? He might have confiscated the film then

Battou · Mar 30, 2008

Alex_B said:
You certainly were not so stupid to tell him that you got any? He might have confiscated the film then

Given the sphiel he gave me, you are prolly right, they would be a must have for his private collection :lol:

...But then again he might have paid for them to, as by this time he knew he was in the wrong and that I was not the person to try stupid stunts with.

Socrates · Mar 30, 2008

Para said:
Hi I am compiling complaints from photographers who have been stopped by the police, Community Support Officers, or any other public body and any private security guard from taking a photograph legally that means on any public property, areas that allow photography.
I am compiling this as a demonstration that it is increasingly difficult to take a photograph without interference, the new Home Security Laws are going to make it more difficult. The Met Police are now saying phone us and we will decide if a person is taking a photograph who we think is suspicious even if its a mobile phone camera.
Private security companies are not getting in on the act.
So if you wish to be able to take a photograph in a public place without the fear of being arrested and branded a terrorist or a pedophile send your email with your complaint with time and date, be as informative as possible, I have a Member of the Scottish Parliament who I am in contact about this he has already contacted the Justice Secretary to press concerns
Email me your complaints to:
[email protected]
Stand up for your rights to keep your hobby and your living.
Pete

Never had a problem. Common courtesy goes a long way.

ratplant · Apr 1, 2008

I just recently had a run-in with a cop who stopped me after I used my cell phone to take a picture of him and his patrol car in a 7-Eleven parking lot. The details are here:
http://rashynullplanet.com/blog/2008/03/13/close-encounter/

Shortly after that unpleasantness, I came across this list of photographers' rights:
http://photojojo.com/content/tips/legal-rights-of-photographers/

That list on PhotoJoJo is based on info from an attorney in Oregon. Does anyone know if it's applicable to Michigan as well?

Thanks!

--Matt

Socrates · Apr 1, 2008

ratplant said:
I just recently had a run-in with a cop who stopped me after I used my cell phone to take a picture of him and his patrol car in a 7-Eleven parking lot. The details are here:
http://rashynullplanet.com/blog/2008/03/13/close-encounter/

Shortly after that unpleasantness, I came across this list of photographers' rights:
http://photojojo.com/content/tips/legal-rights-of-photographers/

That list on PhotoJoJo is based on info from an attorney in Oregon. Does anyone know if it's applicable to Michigan as well?

Thanks!

--Matt

Have you ever stopped to consider how you'd feel if you had that job and someone took your photo? No, I guess you really don't care about the risks that others take on your behalf. If I were the chief, I'd post your letter on the bulletin board along with a description of your vehicle and the tag number.

Alex_B · Apr 1, 2008

ratplant said:
I just recently had a run-in with a cop who stopped me after I used my cell phone to take a picture of him and his patrol car in a 7-Eleven parking lot. The details are here:
http://rashynullplanet.com/blog/2008/03/13/close-encounter/

Shortly after that unpleasantness, I came across this list of photographers' rights:
http://photojojo.com/content/tips/legal-rights-of-photographers/

That list on PhotoJoJo is based on info from an attorney in Oregon. Does anyone know if it's applicable to Michigan as well?

Thanks!

--Matt

2. The officer should be disciplined.
3. Inform me what the officers name is, so I have it for my records.
4. Inform me what discipline the officer receives, also for my records.
5. Forward a copy of this note to the city attorney who should advise the police department what Michigan law says regarding photography of police officers and their vehicles.
6. Send me a copy of the city attorneys advice to the police department. Via email is sufficient.
7. Send me a copy of the police departments policy regarding photography of police. Via email is sufficient. If no such policy exists, the police department should develop one. The policy should also be posted on the police departments web site.
8. Copies of disciplinary action records and all correspondence regarding this incident should be placed in the officers personnel file.
9. Provide me with copies of the audio and video from the officers patrol car video camera and any audio captured by any microphone the officer was wearing. Via email as MP3 and/or MPG files is sufficient.
10. Guarantee me, in writing, that neither the officer nor anyone from the Dearborn Heights police department or any other Dearborn Heights city department will attempt any retaliation, intimidation, or harassment of me or my family because of this incident, this complaint, or anything that results from it. Please send this last item via US Postal Service. My mailing address can be gotten from the officer who stopped me and checked my driving record.

I am afraid, but this is not how it works ... this will cause a smile, laughter, or whatever.

You are not entitled to demands like that. This reads the same as if I would mail the mayor that I want him do do next weeks shopping for me and drop stuff in my driveway at Friday evening. It is just as absurd.

Socrates · Apr 1, 2008

Alex_B said:
I am afraid, but this is not how it works ... this will cause a smile, laughter, or whatever.

You are not entitled to demands like that. This reads the same as if I would mail the mayor that I want him do do next weeks shopping for me and drop stuff in my driveway at Friday evening. It is just as absurd.

You missed the equally absurd #1:
I would like a written apology from the officer. Via email is sufficient.

This all started because he objected to police officers taking coffee breaks!

Alex_B · Apr 1, 2008

Socrates said:
You missed the equally absurd #1:
I would like a written apology from the officer. Via email is sufficient.

Oh, right, quick copy and paste. thank you

Wasn't Axel F a cop in the area? I doubt he would have send an apology :mrgreen:

Socrates · Apr 1, 2008

I browsed the posted web site and found the response that ratplant received from the DHPD shift commander. He must have forgotten to tell us about it. He left the officer's name in the letter but deleted his own. I felt that, in the interest of fairness, I would delete the officer's name as well as the shift commander's name.

March 18, 2008
Mr. xxxxx,
I have been assigned to investigate your compliant against Officer YYYY for his actions on March 13, 2008. I have read your complaint and interviewed Officer yyyy. Your letter, as well as Officer YYYY's version of the incident, are virtually the same. After considering the facts, I have come to the following conclusion:
I feel that you exercised poor judgment in the manner in which you took Officer YYYY’s photograph. A simple courteous request prior to the photographing would have been proper. Without knowing your intent, you created anxiety, fear, and uncertainty in the officer’s mind. I ask that you put yourself in the officer’s shoes. I don’t know your family situation, but how would you feel if a stranger took a photo of your wife or children in front of your house and then quickly drove away. I am sure that would be upsetting to you and your family without knowing the intentions, good or bad, of the stranger.
Also, the speed limit on Pelham is 40 mph. Officer YYYY stated that you were speeding. You don’t dispute that. The traffic stop was lawful. It was reasonable for Officer YYYY to ask you about the nature of the photograph during the stop, and advising you to ask permission in the future.
In regards to your 10 enumerated requests. I will address them briefly.
1. Officer YYYY will not be apologizing to you.
2. Officer YYYY will not be disciplined in this matter
3. The Officer’s name has been addressed
4. Refer to number #2. Nor do we make it a policy to disclose discipline meted out to complainants.
5. The city attorney was consulted in this matter.
6. No such document exists.
7. The Dearborn Heights Police Department does not have a policy on the photographing of its Officers. Nor do we plan on implementing one.
8. This complaint is not sustained
9. A video tape may be available if you still wish to acquire it. A FOIA request is necessary. You may do that at DHPD Records Bureau.
10. I can assure you that Officer YYYY will not retaliate against you because of this incident.
Sincerely,