Another Pricing Thread -- BBC Documentary in HD?

Discussion in 'General Shop Talk' started by astrostu, Oct 26, 2009.

  1. astrostu

    astrostu I shoot for the stars

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2006
    Messages:
    676
    Likes Received:
    17
    Location:
    Boulder, CO, USA
    Can others edit my Photos:
    Photos NOT OK to edit
    Hi all, sorry for another of the rash of "what do I charge?" threads, but, well, this is a fairly unique situation that I've just come upon: I was contacted by a woman from BBC's Vision Studios and they want to use the, "original individual high res images to re-create an image sequence that we could animate."

    No where does she mention licensing, purchasing, etc. ... the closest reference is, "... enquire as to whether we may be able to please include them in the programme."

    At the advice of my Aunt (a graphic designer who's contacting some of her friends in the ad biz), I sent a reply within an hour:

    Basically, I was trying to get a feel for how they'd be used and throwing in there the unsubtle hint that I want to be compensated.

    But I really have NO IDEA here on what to ask for or if an offer they make would be "acceptable." On the one hand, I already have the images, and though I may try to re-master some of the older ones to make 'em look better, there's really not much more work to do that I haven't already done. And this isn't my primary income by a long shot (1 job/year) so I don't really have to worry about that, and I'd be tempted to accept probably anything over £1000. Though, my Aunt suggests that I accept nothing less than what Elizabeth Arden paid me for 4 moon shots 2 years ago, which was $3000USD.

    Towards that end, while I may not have much to lose in getting low-balled, and while I would not want to try to price myself too high and lose the possible sale, I also don't want to be short-changed here. If the standard is closer to, say, £10,000, then why should I only get £1000?

    Any ideas what's standard for a major TV network/studio to pay for photographs?
     
  2. JamesMason

    JamesMason TPF Noob!

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2009
    Messages:
    532
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Nottingham
    Can others edit my Photos:
    Photos NOT OK to edit
    What are the photos of, are they something they can get somewhere else ?
     
  3. astrostu

    astrostu I shoot for the stars

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2006
    Messages:
    676
    Likes Received:
    17
    Location:
    Boulder, CO, USA
    Can others edit my Photos:
    Photos NOT OK to edit
    The photos are a long sequence of the lunar phases. They could probably get them somewhere else, but even though I've looked before, I haven't found anyone who's done as many as I have and processed them all to look the same way and has them at such high resolution.

    For example, you can find lots of lunar phases online, but they all look different, as opposed to my montage, like this one:

    [​IMG]
     
  4. Overread

    Overread has a hat around here somewhere Staff Member Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2008
    Messages:
    23,103
    Likes Received:
    3,767
    Location:
    UK - England
    Can others edit my Photos:
    Photos OK to edit
    I have no idea what you can/should try charging but BBC - phew well done there :)!!!!
    Congrats!
     
  5. JamesMason

    JamesMason TPF Noob!

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2009
    Messages:
    532
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Nottingham
    Can others edit my Photos:
    Photos NOT OK to edit
    I would defiantly charge a high price for em. Not £10,000 tho, even the beeb aint got that much cash to spend on what they will see as a few seconds of footage. Personally i would charge about £2000 maybe push it to 3 if they sound really really interested. Remember its got to cost less than shooting it themselves. Sounds as tho they don't have anything similar in their library tho, and they must not be happy with whats on getty.

    Just my 2pence worth
     
  6. astrostu

    astrostu I shoot for the stars

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2006
    Messages:
    676
    Likes Received:
    17
    Location:
    Boulder, CO, USA
    Can others edit my Photos:
    Photos NOT OK to edit
    Okay, I've done some looking around on Corbis on a single moon image and on a moon montage that this guy created (didn't actually photograph it himself) from the image of a full moon. Based on various usages I plugged in, the price was anywhere from $250-575 USD. But, they'd be purchasing more like 25 or so images (I would think) as opposed to a montage ... so say 20x$250 = $5000 USD.

    From James' post, £2000 = $3260 these days (sigh) so if she asks me to name a figure I think it would be £1500-£3000 at this point ... unless people have more suggestions or other things I can base this on?
     
  7. Overread

    Overread has a hat around here somewhere Staff Member Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2008
    Messages:
    23,103
    Likes Received:
    3,767
    Location:
    UK - England
    Can others edit my Photos:
    Photos OK to edit
    I seem to recall reading in some pricing thread ages ago to actually better to get them to put the first offer on the table. Ask them what their view of the going rate is whilst also having your own idea of the market rate (harder area I undestand here).
    This gives you the chance to get an idea of what they are prepared to pay for the image(s) and their offering might be far higher than your estimation (a good thing for you). The rest is down to haggling the price should their estimation come out far lower than yours.
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2009
  8. astrostu

    astrostu I shoot for the stars

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2006
    Messages:
    676
    Likes Received:
    17
    Location:
    Boulder, CO, USA
    Can others edit my Photos:
    Photos NOT OK to edit
    Alrighty, I heard back. She was looking for the animation 'cause she wants to use it to show the lunar libration and nutation ... but I had pulled it down from my website 'cause I hadn't done a good job stitching it together 3 years ago. So this morning I re-mastered the animation and sent it to her (see below). In her e-mail, she said that she wanted to see the movie and show it to her producer to see if it's what they were looking for, and then she'd discuss pricing. Which I guess is perfectly fair. ;)

    [​IMG]
     
  9. astrostu

    astrostu I shoot for the stars

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2006
    Messages:
    676
    Likes Received:
    17
    Location:
    Boulder, CO, USA
    Can others edit my Photos:
    Photos NOT OK to edit
    Just heard back. The producer and she "love it." The rights they're asking are standard: "All media, all rights worldwide, including North America, digital (i.e. VOD, DTO, mobile phone etc) and DVD. You would of course keep the copyright for all of the images, but as our programme is due to be broadcast not only in the UK, but on other channels around the world we need to clear it for the rights I've noted above."

    However, she's offering me £200. About $330. For 20 photographs, that seems pretty small. Any avice on negotiating up?
     
  10. JamesMason

    JamesMason TPF Noob!

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2009
    Messages:
    532
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Nottingham
    Can others edit my Photos:
    Photos NOT OK to edit
    Do they realize people have to make a living out of this !!! Thats really bad of the BBC. Sounds to me as tho they are trying to take you for a ride. Id tell them that channel 4 want exclusive rights for £2500, but then that could be a risky strategy. However the beeb is a nice client for the portfolio
     
  11. chakalakasp

    chakalakasp TPF Noob!

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2006
    Messages:
    170
    Likes Received:
    6
    "Bwahahahahahahaha"

    Yeah, okay, you can't say that to them. Still.

    I suppose you could ask them how long the images (which I assume are displayed as an animation) would be onscreen and bill them the typical video footage rate, which is around $900 for 10 seconds, with a discount applied to any time over 10 seconds. And that's just for broadcast end of it; DVD rights would be a separate use at around $750 for 10 seconds. I doubt you're going to get stills rate on 20 stills run together in an animation. You could even phrase this in a way where it sounds like (and you are) giving them a discount against what 20+ still would cost, which would probably be at least $7K.

    I dunno. Just do with your gut feeling; however, their quote is silly and they know it. It may be all they'll pay, who knows, but if the Beeb approached me with figures like that and wouldn't back down, I'd kindly tell them to look elsewhere. There are lots of pictures of the moon out there, but they wanted yours enough to approach you.
     
  12. astrostu

    astrostu I shoot for the stars

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2006
    Messages:
    676
    Likes Received:
    17
    Location:
    Boulder, CO, USA
    Can others edit my Photos:
    Photos NOT OK to edit
    I just heard back this morning. She says that the usage is that they would be on-screen for about 6 seconds. That's REALLY fast. Under the information from the post above, I've replied with the following e-mail this morning:

    I've laid out my cards and left it open to her to decide if she says her budget isn't enough but may be she can offer me more, or to just come out and accept the $1,650 figure (£1000 .... I hate playing around with exchange rates!).
     

Share This Page