Anti-alias & moire

Discussion in 'Photography Beginners' Forum' started by Thwarp, Oct 25, 2017.

  1. Thwarp

    Thwarp TPF Noob!

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2017
    Messages:
    20
    Likes Received:
    1
    Can others edit my Photos:
    Photos OK to edit
    I'm seriously considering moving from the nikon D5100 to the newer d7500.
    In reading reviews and specs on the d7500 I've seen mentioned the lack of anti-alias in the d7500 as offering much better performance and image clarity, but with one small though probably insignificant draw back.

    They mentioned that the lack of anti-alias runs a risk of increased chances of "Moiré" in some instances.

    1. Has anyone with cameras lacking anti-alias run in issues of unwanted moire more often than they care for?

    2. Are there ways around instances when you can't avoid the possibility?

    3. Can you cite instances where moire might show up (other than screen windows)?

    I appreciate the forums very much. Lots of lurking about offers much insight.
    I appreciate the time the well seasoned photographers take to come to the forums and offer the wisdom of their experience.


     
  2. benhasajeep

    benhasajeep No longer a newbie, moving up!

    Joined:
    May 4, 2006
    Messages:
    3,561
    Likes Received:
    396
    Location:
    Eddington, ME
    Moire can happen with lines, dots, things with repetitive patterens that the sensor can't resolve. You can get miore from fabric for instance. It can be mitigated somewhat in Photoshop and Lightroom.

    I just recieved my first DSLR without an AA filter (D850). Have not tried to test for moire with it.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. fmw

    fmw No longer a newbie, moving up!

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2006
    Messages:
    3,597
    Likes Received:
    465
    You will want to restate "much better" performance to "subtly better" performance. I use the Fuji system which has a sensor called X-trans which doesn't have nor need anti aliasing. I've never encountered moire on the system. I'm not sure what Nikon uses but it is probably a better setup than they had before. I wouldn't spend a moment worrying about it.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. Thwarp

    Thwarp TPF Noob!

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2017
    Messages:
    20
    Likes Received:
    1
    Can others edit my Photos:
    Photos OK to edit
    Subtly better?
    I've read that older sensors like in the D5100, though similar to the newer can have significantly improved performance.
    I've read that the 7500 has the same sensor as (gees I can't remember exactly) d750 or was it the 850 which are both fx cameras. But as far as d7500 vs the d7200, there really is no significant improvement in picture quality. Performance wise, the buffering is better, the screen can be slid up or down, which for me is good since I use it on the D5100, especially when I need to get real close to the ground, because of my disability, getting down that low without the feature is a difficult task.

    So with the dern close to being twins with the d7200 and the d850, I'm even more confused now. I guess this is one of the other difficult nuances I'm finding it hard to sort out when justifying the cost difference of only $200-300 between the d7200 and the D5100. Probably like trying to decide between a ram 1500 tradesman and tradesman SLT.
     
  5. dunfly

    dunfly No longer a newbie, moving up!

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2016
    Messages:
    104
    Likes Received:
    30
    The D7500 has a significantly better sensor than the older D5100, so the image quality difference is not because of the lack of an anti alias filter. The D7500 has the same sensor as the top of the line DX camera the D500 not the FX cameras.

    To show the difference the anti alias filter makes, you can compare the D5200 and the D5300, which both have 24 mp sensors, the D5200 with an anti-alias filter and the D5300 without. I have a D5200 and have been looking for a reason to upgrade. I have searched numerous tests as to image quality compared to the D5300 and all show no significant difference. As mentioned above, any moire can be fixed in post production.

    Based on your previous post, I would suggest you look at the D5300 or, if you like touch screens, the D5500. They have the articulating screen like yours, a very good sensor, and are MUCH lighter than the D7xxx series. So unless you like the extra buttons and tougher case, I don't think they are worth the extra weight. Of course, this is my personal opinion, but I don't like shoulder strain.
     
  6. Braineack

    Braineack Been spending a lot of time on here!

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2013
    Messages:
    11,029
    Likes Received:
    4,273
    Location:
    NoVA
    Can others edit my Photos:
    Photos OK to edit
    incorrect, the D500 has a 20MP DX sensor. The rest have the same 24MP sensor.

    the D5100 sensor is junk.


    The "issue" with the lack of AA filter and moiré are only things you read about online. It's a non-issue. Nikon removed it for a reason.

    these are no where close to being twins.

    I honestly think you're reading too much, confusing yourself, and getting caught up in things that aren't important. I think you'll do better if you ask us.

    for example: I'd highly consider a D7200 over a D7500. IMHO I think the D7500 is a downgrade over it in a few ways without any real improvements.
     
  7. dunfly

    dunfly No longer a newbie, moving up!

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2016
    Messages:
    104
    Likes Received:
    30
    I believe you are incorrect. The D7500 has the same 20.9 mp sensor as the D500.
    Nikon D7500 DSLR | 20.9 MP DX Format Digital SLR Camera

    Otherwise, I agree with everything you said.
     
  8. Braineack

    Braineack Been spending a lot of time on here!

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2013
    Messages:
    11,029
    Likes Received:
    4,273
    Location:
    NoVA
    Can others edit my Photos:
    Photos OK to edit
    whoops, my mistake. Just another one of those downgrades of the D7500 I was talking about.
     
  9. Ysarex

    Ysarex Been spending a lot of time on here!

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2011
    Messages:
    5,286
    Likes Received:
    2,320
    Location:
    St. Louis
    Can others edit my Photos:
    Photos OK to edit
    I'll second Fred on this one. Not a feature difference to spend money on. The difference is subtle if you can see it at all. Here's a comparison for you. Two different cameras: one has an AA filter and the other doesn't. Can you pick them out? If you can't make your decision based on other more important criteria.

    Joe

    iris_one
    iris_two
     
  10. fmw

    fmw No longer a newbie, moving up!

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2006
    Messages:
    3,597
    Likes Received:
    465
    Yes, I would say subtle. The 7200 has a penta prism instead of a penta mirror. It has a focusing motor opening it up to the use of more lenses. It has a sturdier body. It has two adjustment wheels instead of one, It has countless other less important things such as a horizon level that can be useful. Sensors aren't all that important these days. All of them are quite good. Definitely worth more money.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. Gary A.

    Gary A. Been spending a lot of time on here!

    Top Poster Of Month

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2014
    Messages:
    18,323
    Likes Received:
    5,866
    Location:
    Southern California
    I've been using non-AA filtered cameras for years. I agree that with modern sensors, the difference is subtle. High quality lenses are more important, than AA Filtration or lack thereof, for capturing consistently sharp images.
     
  12. john.margetts

    john.margetts No longer a newbie, moving up!

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2015
    Messages:
    809
    Likes Received:
    168
    Location:
    Lincoln
    Can others edit my Photos:
    Photos OK to edit


    Not just digital cameras - you can get moire patterns on film when the grain size is close to line resolution. I have had wood cladding on buildings cause moire patterns on film before now.

    No, it is not a major problem in general unless you are photographing something with lots of lines at the critical resolution.
     

Share This Page