Any desktop PC geeks here?

[JimMcClain]

Are there enough desktop PC geeks here to discuss new computer builds? Is this the right forum section to do it in?

I've decided that my aging machine needs to be retired. I have plenty of experience building computers, but mostly for show (I used to be a modder and was featured last in CPU Magazine's Oct. 2003 issue). My lungs won't let me do all that grinding, cutting and painting anymore, but I think I can handle assembly.

My biggest problem is not following the technology for the last several years. My last build was intended to last the rest of my life, so when it was done, I quit reading about PC gear and participating in the modding forums. But them damn doctors cain't get nuthin' right and I'm still here. Now I want to put together a machine that will handle these huge file sizes digital photography produces and managing them with high end programs like Lightroom and Photoshop.

Another big problem is money. My income is very limited, so I have to figure it will take many months to get all the right gear for this new machine. Buying a D5300 and a couple lenses, a tripod, etc. took most of my disposable income last month. Been trying to sell stuff I don't use and can live without on ebay. I don't mind it taking a little time though, as long as it's, you know, like the next week or so. Dreaming, of course.

So, last week I ordered a Corsair Obsidian Series 350D Performance Micro ATX Computer Case. It will fit nicely under my desk and still let me put my headphones on top when I'm not using them (I live in a thin-walled apartment and like my music and movies loud). My current machine is a mATX and it's plenty big enough for my needs. This case is a little taller, but not as deep and has plenty of room inside for the gear I think I will use and still have good air flow.

Last night I ordered a couple of SDDs (solid state drives): Samsung 128GB 850 PRO Series SATA 2.5" SSD MZ-7KE128BW B&H One will be for my OS, Windows 7 Professional (haven't decided if I wanna go to 8.1) and most of my programs. The other will be used for the PS scratch drive, the Windows page file and possibly the LR catalog. My current plan is to also get a 500GB SSD for storage of images and other files. My current machine has only a single 500GB HDD with about half of it free, so when the time comes, I think I can just add an additional SDD. Some research I did suggested 4 drives to handle the work (a 4th was used for current projects and the LR catalog), but I think 3 will work for me. I think I like the idea of going all SSD this time. I've never used SSDs before.

Not sure I should continue here. Everyone hates a lifeless discussion. I'm hoping there are at least a few PC enthusiasts that would be interested in a discussion about building a powerful desktop machine and willing to offer their ideas and advice. I'm not sure what else will go into this build. Looking at Intel LGA 1150 4th gen processors, maybe a Z97 chipset micro ATX mobo and a NVIDIA Quadro graphics card. But I'm not sure I should even be discussing this all here, if no one is interested.

Jim

 

[Scatterbrained]

Personally, I run two SSDs (Samsung 840 Pro), one for software and one for page/temp/scratch/VM etc. I keep my images in external RAID enclosures (LaCie 2Big Quadra). As far as advice about what to get, I don't think I can be of too much help there. When it comes time to build a machine, I just start perusing NewEgg to see what is at the top of each category; then I search the web for reviews. Normally I end up compromising to get the best performance I can within a limited budget too. My machine isn't comprised of the "best of the best" but it acquits itself competently.

 

[pthrift]

Subscribed for the info. I've built a pc, once, in a classroom setting; and it never worked. Granted there were 15 sets of hands working on it.

But I've never been brave enough to scratch build my own.
I also dont have enough tech background to make suggestions as to who and what to put inside the case.

 

[xzyragon]

If your income is limited, i'd avoid spending money on that many SSD's. One is fine for boot and primary editing files, then store the rest on a 7200RPM HDD. 60GB is plenty as a bootable + working files SSD. 128GB would be good if you tend to get sloppy. 1TB 7200rpm HDD's are like $70 - $100, and you'll definitely use a lot of it.

Make sure your mobo fits in the case. Once you do, make sure that your GPU fits on your mobo in the case. That's the hardest part with powerful GPUs and micro cases. As far as which one, find a good, reputable brand, make sure it's reliable, and make sure that it's in your budget and has the features you want. If you plan on bridging GPU's, you'll need 2 PCI slots. Additional slots will be needed for any cards you put in (sound cards, extra nics, etc).

As far as GPU's, I'm not experienced with NVIDIA cards, but if you are short on cash, you could get a half decent card and then bridge it later on. I know NVIDIA's bridging is (or at least was) a lot better than radeon's. GPU's in my experience are a "research a little, but you get what you pay for" kind of deal. The more cash you have to drop, the better card you're going to get. This is important for gaming and videos, but relatively unimportant for photo editing, especially if you use LR/PS (LR and PS are highly core dependent, and utilize little of the GPU's power).

Make sure your PSU can handle your mobo, GPU, and CPU (especially if you plan on OCing your CPU).

On the topic of CPU's, the number of cores helps if you plan on processing lots of thing simultaneously, and isn't as big of a deal if you're gaming. Assuming this is primarily a editing machine, go with more cores over a higher clock speed. I'd go with intel as well. The processors are more robust, run cooler, but are a little higher priced (because of their advantages). Regardless of your processor, get an aftermarket CPU fan (and make sure it can fit in the case). Liquid cooling is overkill unless you're a die-hard overclocker, but if you can find a good deal (<$60 for a reputable brand) i'd take it. Otherwise the nicer air cooled CPU fans are excellent for most usage.

For RAM, i'd just go with 16gb unless you're out of budget and have to drop down to 8gb. LR + OS on my computer alone takes up 3-4gb. Add in 15 tabs of chrome and i'm up to 6gb. Make sure your mobo can support whatever RAM you decide to buy.

And don't forget your OS and peripherals. A decent monitor will run you $100 - $300, depending on size, latency, and quality. I prefer gaming mice for their high DPI's and extra buttons, along with the added weight.

Have fun building your PC though! It's super fun!

 

[Msteelio91]

3 Drives is plenty but a 500g for all your pictures might fill faster than you'd expect, depending on what you're storing.

As for the rest:
-Mobo: DON'T LIMIT YOURSELF. The last thing you want to replace is the motherboard, get one with an updated chipset. Intel is fine but look at the newer slots.
-Processor: Same as above, these two components are critical.
-RAM: 8gb, DDR3 or 4. Look around, there are a ton of good sales on RAM right now. Look at benchmarks.
-GPU: Tons of great units out there, look at benchmarks. I like nvidia's geforce line personally.

You mention a limited budget. I'd say for sub $650 you could build a very capable machine. Search Amazon, newegg, dealnews, woot, even eBay.

Here's a nice little site that might help you get back in the mindset of all this stuff: Logical Increments - PC Buying Guide

 

[407370]

I dont know if it is the correct forum either but...

Why all the SSD's ? I went for a single SSD big enough for OS and SYS files and filled the other slots with 2TB drives.

I use mine for 3D rendering and an overclocked Third gen I7 with 32Gb of 1600Mhz ram alongside a GTX 560 GPU and plenty of extra cooling in a full size Gigabyte case is a speed machine with stability. I built this about 6 months ago so these bits should set you back a lot less than I paid for them. I paid around 5000 Qatari Riyals for the bits (I have no clue what currency conversion rates are) and for photography would be overkill unless you would be doing video as well. One extra useful addition was a multi media reader so I can directly transfer pics from cards to sticks, very useful for me.

I am not a modder but I have always built my own PC's.

If you think I can help let me know.

CHEERS

 

[JimMcClain]

Normally, I would multi-quote all the replies I get and then just make my comments between, but there's a lot to comment on and I don't want one post to be so long no one wants to read it, so here's one at a time:

Personally, I run two SSDs (Samsung 840 Pro), one for software and one for page/temp/scratch/VM etc. I keep my images in external RAID enclosures (LaCie 2Big Quadra). As far as advice about what to get, I don't think I can be of too much help there. When it comes time to build a machine, I just start perusing NewEgg to see what is at the top of each category; then I search the web for reviews. Normally I end up compromising to get the best performance I can within a limited budget too. My machine isn't comprised of the "best of the best" but it acquits itself competently.

Samsung 840 Pros have tested very well, so good choice. You have storage set up basically they way I plan, except I want all machine drives to be SSD and will likely get an external drive for backups (I learned the value of backup, backup, backup in 1992 - luckily through someone else's experience) and always keep one backup drive off-premises. The 850 Pro series now includes RAPID, which helps speed reads and writes. It appears to be the fastest SSD available now. I considered M.2 SSDs, which claim 10Gb/s instead of 6, but the tech is still new and not many mobos utilize it yet.

Like you, I scour Newegg and other sites for reviews on all the best gear and try to make an educated decision based on my personal needs and budget.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Jim

 

[JimMcClain]

If your income is limited, i'd avoid spending money on that many SSD's. One is fine for boot and primary editing files, then store the rest on a 7200RPM HDD. 60GB is plenty as a bootable + working files SSD. 128GB would be good if you tend to get sloppy. 1TB 7200rpm HDD's are like $70 - $100, and you'll definitely use a lot of it.

First things first: I said my income was limited, not my budget. Of course, I don't have an unlimited budget, but I plan to use quality components and cost will be lower on the scale than quality and performance.

My Windows folder alone is nearly 36GB. My program folders are just over 10GB. That's what I would want to put on the C: drive and 60GB just isn't enough. There should be at least 20% free space on a drive and even a little more is better. Too much, of course, isn't good either, but there should be no defragmenting routines going on with an SSD, so giving the system files a little space to move around is a good thing. Cramping them is not. I don't want HDDs, mostly because it's old tech and SSD will soon be the drives of choice for speed and reliability.

Make sure your mobo fits in the case. Once you do, make sure that your GPU fits on your mobo in the case. That's the hardest part with powerful GPUs and micro cases. As far as which one, find a good, reputable brand, make sure it's reliable, and make sure that it's in your budget and has the features you want. If you plan on bridging GPU's, you'll need 2 PCI slots. Additional slots will be needed for any cards you put in (sound cards, extra nics, etc).

Agree with all of that. My last machine I had to return/exchange a GPU because the one I wanted wouldn't allow me to close the case, even though the published dimensions said it would. But the Corsair case is a bit larger than the average micro ATX case and I did enough research to be pretty sure all the mATX motherboards available will fit and most quality GPUs will not be a problem except in length. Since I don't plan to use any internal HDDs, the HDD cage can be removed and any GPU I can afford will fit. Limited income also means I will be able to get the mobo and take measurements prior to buying the GPU. And one is enough for me. I already have a sound card that's still quite nice, and all the mobos I've looked at have room for it. I don't need much else on the board.

As far as GPU's, I'm not experienced with NVIDIA cards, but if you are short on cash, you could get a half decent card and then bridge it later on. I know NVIDIA's bridging is (or at least was) a lot better than radeon's. GPU's in my experience are a "research a little, but you get what you pay for" kind of deal. The more cash you have to drop, the better card you're going to get. This is important for gaming and videos, but relatively unimportant for photo editing, especially if you use LR/PS (LR and PS are highly core dependent, and utilize little of the GPU's power).

I notice when questions about type of GPU for photoshop come up, the most recommended are NVIDIA Quadro. These are workstation GPUs. Although they will prob'ly work fine for gaming, I don't do gaming. Never have. I do watch videos online, which most consumer oriented dedicated GPUs can handle, but some programs, especially Photoshop, can benefit from the advanced features of a quality workstation card.

Make sure your PSU can handle your mobo, GPU, and CPU (especially if you plan on OCing your CPU).

Yep. I'm not into overclocking anything, but the components I choose will be power hungry. 750 watts minimum is the goal.

On the topic of CPU's, the number of cores helps if you plan on processing lots of thing simultaneously, and isn't as big of a deal if you're gaming. Assuming this is primarily a editing machine, go with more cores over a higher clock speed. I'd go with intel as well. The processors are more robust, run cooler, but are a little higher priced (because of their advantages). Regardless of your processor, get an aftermarket CPU fan (and make sure it can fit in the case). Liquid cooling is overkill unless you're a die-hard overclocker, but if you can find a good deal (<$60 for a reputable brand) i'd take it. Otherwise the nicer air cooled CPU fans are excellent for most usage.

All good advice. I've been looking at i7 and i5 Haswell processors. I used to do marketing for Cooler Master and still get a great deal on their products. I like their CPU coolers a lot, so I'll have to see what will fit when that time comes.

For RAM, i'd just go with 16gb unless you're out of budget and have to drop down to 8gb. LR + OS on my computer alone takes up 3-4gb. Add in 15 tabs of chrome and i'm up to 6gb. Make sure your mobo can support whatever RAM you decide to buy.

32GB!

And don't forget your OS and peripherals. A decent monitor will run you $100 - $300, depending on size, latency, and quality. I prefer gaming mice for their high DPI's and extra buttons, along with the added weight.

I will keep using my current monitor. It's an LG, 22", of pretty good quality until I can manage a monitor that supports internal programmable LUTs for calibration and color space matching. Budget-friendly monitors like this go for >$500.00. I've been a trackball kinda guy since the beginning. I have gone through 8 or 9 Kensington Expert Mouse trackballs and tried half a dozen or more other trackballs and keep coming back to this big block of plastic. I would like to try working with a Wacom Intuos though.

Have fun building your PC though! It's super fun!

It is. It has been a while, but I have built every computer I have owned since 1991, except the first one and a couple tablets I've bought. I miss the modding part some, but my last machine was modded very little, but the build was a lot of fun. The research gives me a headache though - there's so much good stuff out there that sometimes isn't compatible with each other.

Thanks,

Jim

 

[MOREGONE]

For archival storage I would still go with HDD's. A 500gb SSD is easy to fill up with these high MP cameras and will be pretty costly for files you are only storing (mostly). You could have redundant storage with higher capacity for the price of a 500gb SSD. That's just my .02

I currently have a 128gb SSD for my OS and project files, then a 3tb NAS (3tb x2, RAID 1) and am really pleased with it. I don't follow the latest and greatest hardware but am extremely happy with my setup. 12gb RAM (1x8, 2x2 (not running dual channel i've been told)) and am pleasantly surprised every time I go from LR > PS > LR. So quick now that I have an SSD for the project and OS.

Either way, sounds like you're well on your way to a serious machine.

 

[xzyragon]

My Windows folder alone is nearly 36GB. My program folders are just over 10GB. That's what I would want to put on the C: drive and 60GB just isn't enough. There should be at least 20% free space on a drive and even a little more is better. Too much, of course, isn't good either, but there should be no defragmenting routines going on with an SSD, so giving the system files a little space to move around is a good thing. Cramping them is not. I don't want HDDs, mostly because it's old tech and SSD will soon be the drives of choice for speed and reliability.

Understood. I'm just saying if you're in a budget crunch, you'll get a lot more storage per cent with an HDD than with an SSD. And not all your files need 24/7 high speed access either. Considering SSDs are at $0.50 per gig while HDDs are $0.07 per gig (for a TB), it's a cost friendly alternative that doesn't hamper too much performance.

Agree with all of that. My last machine I had to return/exchange a GPU because the one I wanted wouldn't allow me to close the case, even though the published dimensions said it would. But the Corsair case is a bit larger than the average micro ATX case and I did enough research to be pretty sure all the mATX motherboards available will fit and most quality GPUs will not be a problem except in length. Since I don't plan to use any internal HDDs, the HDD cage can be removed and any GPU I can afford will fit. Limited income also means I will be able to get the mobo and take measurements prior to buying the GPU. And one is enough for me. I already have a sound card that's still quite nice, and all the mobos I've looked at have room for it. I don't need much else on the board.

Well it depends on how far down the mobo the PCI slot is. But if the bays are removeable, then you should be fine.

I notice when questions about type of GPU for photoshop come up, the most recommended are NVIDIA Quadro. These are workstation GPUs. Although they will prob'ly work fine for gaming, I don't do gaming. Never have. I do watch videos online, which most consumer oriented dedicated GPUs can handle, but some programs, especially Photoshop, can benefit from the advanced features of a quality workstation card.

if you aren't doing any gaming, don't spend more than $100 on a GPU. Photoshop and LR only use the GPU to power the display, but don't utilize any of it's processing power. It's in Adobe's statement. But, a $100 card should give you the ability to do a decent multi-monitor setup, and if you do decide to go into video editing, you can always crossfire / bridge cards later on.

Yep. I'm not into overclocking anything, but the components I choose will be power hungry. 750 watts minimum is the goal.

Again, you could save money by going with a decent 600 watt PSU. It's not as scalable, but it'll save you a good $40 to $50. Especially if you don't OC and don't have a top of the line GPU, there's no way your system is going to be pulling more than 400 watts at peak power. Mine hits 500 watts at peak, and my CPU is overclocked from 3.3 to 4.0, my GPU is overclocked from 1.0 to 1.2, and i'm running a couple peripherals.

All good advice. I've been looking at i7 and i5 Haswell processors. I used to do marketing for Cooler Master and still get a great deal on their products. I like their CPU coolers a lot, so I'll have to see what will fit when that time comes.

I love my coolermaster evo. It's just a little tall (slightly taller than my GPU), so if your GPU is a tight fit, then you might have to custom rig your case.

32GB!

I mean running 32gb is up to you, but if you aren't doing serious computing, its completely unnecessary. If you are adamant, just make sure your mobo can handle 32gb.

Thanks,

Jim[/QUOTE]

 

[Overread]

On the subject of operating systems, based on what you've said thus far, honestly I'd say go with Win 8.1. The interface elements threw a lot of users, but honestly most intermediate to advanced users will have little problem adjusting (esp now since they've refined a few things).

Right click to find the shut-down command on the windows symbol is about all you need to really remember; if you want the start menu back you can either find it in the windows folder (I just stuck a short-cut to it on my desktop) or you can get a number of cheap programs online that simulate the effect of the windows button on the computer. (of course only get from trusted sources - I've not looked in them but I know that Stardock make one).

Otherwise win 8.1 has run smooth - fast and clean for me. It shuts down and boots up in a tiny amount of time (well under a minute) and I've not had many if any real errors (about the only problem is 5 or so games that don't run or run with some performance issues on it - saying that 1 of those hasn't run on anything since XP days). 8.1 got a lot of bad press and if MS had just put the start button back in (and hadn't originally had it boot to the metro instead of hte desktop* screen) then they'd have had a very popular OS release.


*It now boots right into the desktop no more silly metro screen as default

 

[MOREGONE]

On the subject of operating systems, based on what you've said thus far, honestly I'd say go with Win 8.1. The interface elements threw a lot of users, but honestly most intermediate to advanced users will have little problem adjusting (esp now since they've refined a few things).

Right click to find the shut-down command on the windows symbol is about all you need to really remember; if you want the start menu back you can either find it in the windows folder (I just stuck a short-cut to it on my desktop) or you can get a number of cheap programs online that simulate the effect of the windows button on the computer. (of course only get from trusted sources - I've not looked in them but I know that Stardock make one).

Otherwise win 8.1 has run smooth - fast and clean for me. It shuts down and boots up in a tiny amount of time (well under a minute) and I've not had many if any real errors (about the only problem is 5 or so games that don't run or run with some performance issues on it - saying that 1 of those hasn't run on anything since XP days). 8.1 got a lot of bad press and if MS had just put the start button back in (and hadn't originally had it boot to the metro instead of hte desktop* screen) then they'd have had a very popular OS release.


*It now boots right into the desktop no more silly metro screen as default

Yeah, I am totally Okay with Windows 8. had a terrible upgrade experience on a laptop but when I used it on my desktop build it has been pleasant. There is still some room for preference between 7 and 8 but I don't think the stability or speed is really an issue with either. I myself like the Metro elements and only see it getting better from here.

 

[JimMcClain]

3 Drives is plenty but a 500g for all your pictures might fill faster than you'd expect, depending on what you're storing.

True, but there's always an upgrade - either an additional drive (SSDs are very small and the case I ordered has room for quite a few), or replace one smaller capacity drive with a larger capacity drive. It's very easy to do as long as you aren't swapping out the OS/Programs drive (and even that can be accomplished with backup imaging, if the drives are identical except for capacity - go from the Samsung 850 Pro 128GB to a 850 Pro 256GB).

Mobo: DON'T LIMIT YOURSELF. The last thing you want to replace is the motherboard, get one with an updated chipset. Intel is fine but look at the newer slots.

That's why I've been looking at the Z97 chipset boards. Too few reviews, but those I have found seem encouraging.

-Processor: Same as above, these two components are critical.
-RAM: 8gb, DDR3 or 4. Look around, there are a ton of good sales on RAM right now. Look at benchmarks.
-GPU: Tons of great units out there, look at benchmarks. I like nvidia's geforce line personally.

See my post above. Keep in mind that I'm not building a gamer, but a workstation. Besides the renewed interest in photography, I have worked as a website designer/coder/graphics artist for a long time now and have been using MS Office Professional since the mid-ninties. One of my most computer resource intensive applications has been Adobe Fireworks. It doesn't let loose of those resources entirely when I close the app either. Same with a few other programs. It's normal and I hope to build a machine that doesn't have to sometimes be rebooted a couple times a day.

You mention a limited budget. I'd say for sub $650 you could build a very capable machine. Search Amazon, newegg, dealnews, woot, even eBay.

Again, not a budget machine at all. It just will take more time to gather components. I am a regular on Newegg, Amazon and have my own ebay account. I like to shop, but I prefer to buy from more mainstream online dealers (I would buy locally, but there are no real computer stores here where I live). Although I sell on ebay, I buy very little.

Here's a nice little site that might help you get back in the mindset of all this stuff: Logical Increments - PC Buying Guide

Good information there, except, like many computer enthusiast sites, they target gamers more than anything else. Still, it's another good resource I will add to my bookmarks. Thank you.

Jim

 

[JimMcClain]

Why all the SSD's ? I went for a single SSD big enough for OS and SYS files and filled the other slots with 2TB drives.

A Windows machine will boot faster if the boot drive is only populated with the OS and essential programs, whether that drive is HDD or SSD. This is especially true for the Samsung 850 Pro drives because the boot drive is the only one that can utilize their RAPID technology. The Windows paging file/swap file has always worked better as a single file size on a separate drive/partition. Since an SSD drive should not be partitioned, it's best to have a single, small SSD set up just for the paging file and other, similar resources (incl. the Photoshop scratch file). I think it also works well as the location for the Windows temp & tmp files. The third drive, whether you prefer a traditional HDD or the newer tech SSD, is used for primary storage. That's where all your personal documents, pictures, videos, etc. go. Since my current setup uses a single 500GB HDD, I feel quite confident that the new system will work optimally with a 128GB OS/Programs SSD, a 128GB page/scratch/temporary files drive and a 500GB drive for all other storage. This also makes it far easier and safer to upgrade or replace individual drives.

I use mine for 3D rendering and an overclocked Third gen I7 with 32Gb of 1600Mhz ram alongside a GTX 560 GPU and plenty of extra cooling in a full size Gigabyte case is a speed machine with stability. I built this about 6 months ago so these bits should set you back a lot less than I paid for them. I paid around 5000 Qatari Riyals for the bits (I have no clue what currency conversion rates are) and for photography would be overkill unless you would be doing video as well. One extra useful addition was a multi media reader so I can directly transfer pics from cards to sticks, very useful for me.

I am not a modder but I have always built my own PC's.

If you think I can help let me know.

CHEERS

Sounds like a pretty nice system. I do hope to try my hand at video too. I'd like to do some how-tos from a professional standpoint in the flooring industry - not production-wise, but pro flooring installer-wise. There's a lot of DIY videos and videos from guys who claim to be pros, but very few that actually comply with industry standards, etc. And as a webmaster for a couple of popular forums, I'd like to see if I can create a few how-tos for new forum users - at least in the areas I have the most experience. Anyway, I've always been a fan of quality, so this machine is one I want to reflect that. As I said, I don't have an unlimited budget, but I want to take the time necessary to put together a very strong computer. Who knows, if Nikon ever decides to come out with a full-frame camera that has an articulating rear monitor, I might want to jump on that. Some people think it's a feature more apropos for photography noobs. They forget that some of us who don't have the same mobility as normal people NEED that articulating screen. It is the only reason I have a D5300 now, instead of a D7100. If the Nikon rumors turn out to be true, I may be able to move up to full-frame and will need a much more powerful computer than the one I have now.

Your participation is always welcome. Don't hesitate to share your ideas and opinions. The nice thing about forums is the content is here for a very long time and will get found by others in similar situations. There's been great advice for those looking to build budget machines that will help a lot of people. My computer won't necessarily fit in the budget category, but a discussion of all the possibilities will help all kinds of people looking to build or upgrade computers for a long time to come.

Thanks,

Jim

 

[JimMcClain]

For archival storage I would still go with HDD's. A 500gb SSD is easy to fill up with these high MP cameras and will be pretty costly for files you are only storing (mostly). You could have redundant storage with higher capacity for the price of a 500gb SSD. That's just my .02

I agree, but archival storage to me is an external drive array - one is always kept off-site and rotated with the on-site backup drive. It's not just for backups, but also for storing those files from the 90s I don't want to remember.

Jim