Architecture Photography tips

[JerryPH]

Jerry obiously doesn't understand English

And I would have to counter that you know nothing about business.

- you asked for advice on how to begin making money at real estate photography. The cold hard facts of life are you won't make any serious money at it. Real Estate agents typically get a3-4% commission when they close a sale. If a house sells at $100,000, they get $3000. And they average maybe one sale a month after putting in 60-70 hours a week.

Did you know that the average... that is AVERAGE photographer here in Canada for Remax gets $150 per house? Now how did I know that? I called and asked. They are also looking for at least 4 people in the Montreal, Quebec area that are available to do just that. Average age of these photographers? 22-25 years old. Average experience? 2+ years. That's not a lot!

I was told that for this amount, they are shooting an average of 3-6 houses per day on a 5-day a week basis. In short, its a part time job that takes about 40 hours a week. Now... even at the LOWEST rate, thats still 15 houses a week at $2250 per week. A little different from the picture you would want to paint. Why would you settle for $750 when ALL the others are getting over 3 times that much?

Getting $15 a house is complete idiocy and rediculous! It will barely cover cab fare to get back and forth! He will also not be taken seriously and also then not get asked to do a job.

You see, people who sell houses are not the ones going to pay you, it is the COMPANY that pays you and its none of your business if they make 3% or higher. Asking for $15 is a joke and anyone that works for that amount shall be considered a joke. The average house here in Quebec is on the market 3-4 weeks. It is now a buyer's market. Heck the house 2 houses down from me (at 1.3 million) sold in 3 days!

If you make $15 per house and shoot 50 houses a week, you'll make $750 a week.

You will also be the lowest paid shooter in Canada as far as I know. The economy in general is always better in the USA, so one should expect the same pay or higher.

That's damned good money! Because you can do it in about 30 hours a week.

You'd also be shooting yourself in the foot, and likely not getting any work becuase you would be considered "just a kid with a camera" and not a professional worthy of the job.

Nobody - and I mean nobody - charges $5000 a day in professional photography when they are at the beginning of their career.

In no other business have I seen 10-20 years of experience NOT needed to become a success like in photography... if you KNOW how to run a business! Joey Lawrence is 10 years younger than JUST the years of experience I have in business, experience counts for something... but not near the same like in other fields. In short, if you are good in business, you can have ONE SINGLE YEAR of camera time and still make a VERY comfortable business.

You need to learn a little more about wedding photography... you said NOBODY. My mathematics teacher always said... one exception kills a rule. I have shot with wedding photographers that do not charge $5,000 a day, but $15,000 a day and more. Yes they started at $5000/day, but moved up fast. I do not think highly of your business skills, nor do I think you know what professional photographers can or do get.

When I started out my consulting business, I had a hard time making $50/hour as a consultant. A year later, someone told me to raise my rates, becuase the average was $100... I though well if the average is 100, why is no one pleased to pay 50?

The week that I raised my prices to 100/hour and business exploded. Last summer I raised them again to $225/hour for my BASIC STARTING rate (it gets higher from there, trust me!), I literally had 2 things happen:

- my most difficult and problematic clientele dropped me
- For every problematic client that I lost, I gained not 2, but *3* new clients that appreciated me and had NO issues paying $225+ an hour. Why would these SAME people not hire me at $50/hours?

Perceived value. You get what you pay for. In 2010, my base rates go to $300/hour, all my clients know... not one has even blinked an eye and most have told me that they have no issues with this abd are HAPPY to pay this amount.

To relate this back closer to the topic... it is 2 VASTLY different things to be a photographer, and to be a financially successful photographer.

One is maybe going to be not all that busy, and working for peanuts... The other is going to work comfortably more, work smarter and making a LOT more money.

The BUSINESS of photography has very little with pressing a shutter. Until you learn this small fact, you shall do exactly what I did my first year... banging my head into a wall wondering why I was not getting much work. The moment I started working smart, I stopped having financial issues and stopped banging my head against a wall, and started cashing in a LOT more money on a daily basis.

I am at the point now, where I am booked 6-8 months in advance in my consultant firm. That is not something I could say if I was charging $50/hour... not even close.

This is also not a happening that is unique to me. I spend a good amount of time in many wedding forums talking to people. Very few tell me that business dropped when prices were raised, but the majority say that business goes up right after prices are raised significantly... so my case is far from unique and goes far to prove my point.

People will pay more than a pittance for a job well done and take you more seriously if your prices are at market prices or higher and all you have to do is convince them you are worth it, give good service and you don't have to kill yourself over trying to convince them initially at the start.

 

[Interesting]

Well he's said our opinions in pay don't matter, and that's his right.

Not the smartest thing to ignore advice on, but to each their own.

For what it's worth, I did commercial photography as a side job while I worked in a marketing firm. Everything from shooting product to shooting office spaces and construction sites. If I charged $15 per location I'd get ignored. When you are that far off the market rate people assume you're worth that much less. If you're cheaper, but competitive it can be dismissed as you making an allowance based on your age.

Also realize, realtors are looking for any edge to get a sale. I did a lot of shooting for major firms like Grubb & Ellis. Just convince whoever you're talking to that the photograph is the first impression a potential client has of the property and you're 80% there. The other 10% would be presenting yourself in a manner that inspires confidence. This also includes pricing; $15 home shoots are saying you don't take the job seriously. You miss a shoot or two, meh who cares, I just wanted photo equipment. But if this is your livelihood you'd look at it much more different. Realtors have to be present when you visit a home almost all the time so nobody wants to sit there and wait for someone.

Find out what an agent goes through in his routine of listing a site. From the call to the MLS listing. Find out where in his schedule or where in his checklist you fit and mention it. People are more willing to accept change when it's seamless.

I went to my client's site, found 10 properties, shot the properties and went to the interview with my shots and their shots in my portfolio. Among other shots, of course. I told them I would be available for shoots in the initial meet & greet between client and agent. This is a good time to shoot since the agent sits down with the client and spends a decent amount of time with them going over particulars and services. This allows you time to set up and get the right shot. I'd be packed up and ready to leave before the agent finished his meet. For residential it's probably in the second meet between client and agent (once the client is signed), or you can even schedule one where you come alone if the agent can manage it. Easiest gig I ever scored.

 

[Michael P. Harker]

Jerry,

I don't know if you understand the economy in America right now, but I can tell you that I know of absolutely no photographers that are being hired to photograph houses. Our real estate market is in the sewer. Now you may be right about what is happening in Canada. But if what you say is true, why aren't you doing it?

 

[gsgary]

Over here in the UK the estate agent just goes round with a point and shoot if i went round asking to shoot them i would get laughed out the door, also i can't believe that the housing market is different in Canada to everwhere else in the world , in a right mess
ps could i buy a pair of your rose tinted glasses

 

[Michael P. Harker]

I want to first of all thank everyone who has contributed to this discussion and I totally respect everyone's opinion, because, after all, we all work from within the limited scope of our own paradigms.

As an adendum, photographers and PHOTOGRAPHY have never truly been given their proper due for what the medium and our individual efforts have contributed to making our world a more humane world. We don't get paid enough, we go through years of struggle to "make it" and we never, ever back down!

I truly wish the reality of our profession was more in line with this 170 year old effort. I truly wish that all of us who work as professionals could earn what an NFL quarterback makes.

Alas, life isn't fair.

Hold your standards high, never compromise your principals and keep solidarity!

Cheers!

Michael P. Harker