Beginner needs help!

[PatrickHMS]

To make an analogy - when you see early episodes of "American Idol", where "singers" try out, and when you hear them, many are so terrible that you cannot even believe that they don't realize that they don't know how to sing, but they are still heartbroken when they are rejected, and the judges don't know what they are doing for rejecting them.

Same here, when a "pro" wannabee comes here, asking some of the questions they ask, and how they phrase them, even reasonably experienced photographers here on TPF know they have no chance of "going to Hollywood".

But person asking still becomes angry at us for honestly answering their stupid questions. And at this point, these kinds of questions are stupid.

 

[NinaRoxanne]

To make an analogy - when you see early episodes of "American Idol", where "singers" try out, and when you hear them, many are so terrible that you cannot even believe that they don't realize that they don't know how to sing, but they are still heartbroken when they are rejected, and the judges don't know what they are doing for rejecting them.

Same here, when a "pro" wannabee comes here, asking some of the questions they ask, and how they phrase them, even reasonably experienced photographers here on TPF know they have no chance of "going to Hollywood".

But person asking still becomes angry at us for honestly answering their stupid questions. And at this point, these kinds of questions are stupid.

well let's not waste your time and YOU can move on...
I still dont understand why your still harping about it.. go on and talk to your professionals that know it all and take fantastic photos

 

[WaywardShinobi]

I'm a complete noob and I want to make my own business as well. HOWEVER, I will not do that until I get EXPERIENCE. I don't feel comfortable charging people for anything unless it's of the best quality possible. I DO wish you luck however. I understand wanting to do it NOW, but experience is key just like everything. Furthermore, it seems like the definition of the word "professional" is somewhat misrepresented in a few posts here. Dictionary.com says: "Professional: following an occupation as a means of livelihood or for gain: a professional builder." By definition, you are saying you are a professional photographer since you say you're following photography as an occupation as a means of livelihood or for gain. In that case, don't present yourself that way if you yourself says otherwise. Another definition of "professional" is someone with enough EXPERIENCE in his/her occupation as to have the ability to teach others/offer apprenticeship. All in all though, keep at it and by all means have your "profession", but don't come asking questions that you don't like the answers to. That's just ridiculous. Good luck!

 

[mammarazzi]

Hey MSSN sista! It's Ordiwife. Look take what you will from these guys. I went through the same thing here. Everyone is very critical here as they should be but it can be a little harsh. I'm about to pm you.

 

[jackieclayton]

NinaRoxanne,

Usually I find some harsh truth on here too... but for once... I gotta agree with every poster that has replied to you. I got crapped on here because photography is a hobby for me and my husband bought me a D700 for my birthday. My husband knows nothing about photography other than the fact that i love it.. I'm still learning how to use it... and my SB900 flash that he bought me along with it... hasn't even been off the hotshoe, because i'm embarrased to say that i'm trying to learn about off camera lighting. I am a beginner with professional equipment because my husband bought me the best on the market. but with that being said I am in NO way a professional trying to start up a business and charge people for my work. i'm learning.

I took some maternity pictures for a friend (for free of course!) and a friend of hers liked them and wanted to pay me to take picture of her. I was so excited thinking I could make money off this hobby of mine so I got on TPF and asked what should I charge?? I got some good mixed response that instead of getting pissy over, I took it to heart and thought about what they said. I thought about it for DAYS on end and opted not to charge at all... how can I charge someone something when I can't gauruntee the quality. Even if they are willing to pay for the photoshoot, I am not business-savy or technically qualified to charge. I used her as practice and practice only.

Look, I'm a military wife and a new mom too, sure we love taking pics of our kids, and yes our friends oooh and ahhh over our facebook pictures and want us to take pictures of their kids... but the fact that you stated technicality doesn't matter in your pictures, you just take it and if it works great... and the fact that you're not sure what lenses to use because you have 10 of them, and you don't know what lighting you have... ARGH, all the REALLY important questions you have but you're able to get a website up and pricing....

its awesome you are able to purchase nice equipment to learn on... if you can afford to learn to drive on a lexus, why buy a kia... but to buy a bunch of stuff and not know how to use it and THEN charge for it... i have to agree with the others... its ridiculous. Dont respond with a pissy attitude because we tell you how it is. An online course and a bag full of gear and website.. now you can call yourself a photographer and charge people... is an ethically wrong thing to do in the business world.

What if I took an online course, bought some medical equipment, got a website and called myself a doctor. Even though I get lucky with exams... but now I got some questions so I get on a forum to ask what instrument to use for a particular exam...my friends say I'm good at it and they are willing to pay me because I'm pretty good and why pay $100 at the doctors office when they can come to me for half the price? I also have no business liscense, no accountant, no tax forms, etc. Am I still legit?

See why we are telling you this?! Keep shooting and enjoy it... by all means take pictures for friends... but you owe it to a consumer to know what you are doing before you charge for it.

Oh, and by the looks of your pictures on your website... learning white balance would indeed help... its not just a fancy pancy term the pros use... its in chapter 1 of every how-to digital photography book ... good luck!

 

[pcacj]

I am also new and I can relate to the OPs feelings. How can a newbie feel comfortable posting openly if they think they are going to be slammed by the old timers? If words were chosen as carefully as photographs were taken by some of the responders, she would welcome your feedback more readily. It seems that because this is digital and not face-to-face, some responders choose to respond with a negative disposition (even rude) rather than a positive. Almost anything can be said in a positive manner. I am sure you do not talk that way to people in your daily business practices.

 

[mom2eight]

Pc nicely said

 

[NinaRoxanne]

I am also new and I can relate to the OPs feelings. How can a newbie feel comfortable posting openly if they think they are going to be slammed by the old timers? If words were chosen as carefully as photographs were taken by some of the responders, she would welcome your feedback more readily. It seems that because this is digital and not face-to-face, some responders choose to respond with a negative disposition (even rude) rather than a positive. Almost anything can be said in a positive manner. I am sure you do not talk that way to people in your daily business practices.

:thumbup: That is right!

Like I said, I wouldn't want some of these Photographers taking pictures of my son knowing the rudeness they have.

I am a nice person, and I can except harsh things.. But i've seen tons of plain out rude!

Their feedback and post did nothing for me but just be negative. Which
it will go in one ear and out the other because of the rudeness. If it were given in a different approach, it may have been more helpful.

In the meantime.. i'll keep doing what i do.

 

[Annamas]

NinaRoxanne,

Usually I find some harsh truth on here too... but for once... I gotta agree with every poster that has replied to you. I got crapped on here because photography is a hobby for me and my husband bought me a D700 for my birthday. My husband knows nothing about photography other than the fact that i love it.. I'm still learning how to use it... and my SB900 flash that he bought me along with it... hasn't even been off the hotshoe, because i'm embarrased to say that i'm trying to learn about off camera lighting. I am a beginner with professional equipment because my husband bought me the best on the market. but with that being said I am in NO way a professional trying to start up a business and charge people for my work. i'm learning.

I took some maternity pictures for a friend (for free of course!) and a friend of hers liked them and wanted to pay me to take picture of her. I was so excited thinking I could make money off this hobby of mine so I got on TPF and asked what should I charge?? I got some good mixed response that instead of getting pissy over, I took it to heart and thought about what they said. I thought about it for DAYS on end and opted not to charge at all... how can I charge someone something when I can't gauruntee the quality. Even if they are willing to pay for the photoshoot, I am not business-savy or technically qualified to charge. I used her as practice and practice only.

Look, I'm a military wife and a new mom too, sure we love taking pics of our kids, and yes our friends oooh and ahhh over our facebook pictures and want us to take pictures of their kids... but the fact that you stated technicality doesn't matter in your pictures, you just take it and if it works great... and the fact that you're not sure what lenses to use because you have 10 of them, and you don't know what lighting you have... ARGH, all the REALLY important questions you have but you're able to get a website up and pricing....

its awesome you are able to purchase nice equipment to learn on... if you can afford to learn to drive on a lexus, why buy a kia... but to buy a bunch of stuff and not know how to use it and THEN charge for it... i have to agree with the others... its ridiculous. Dont respond with a pissy attitude because we tell you how it is. An online course and a bag full of gear and website.. now you can call yourself a photographer and charge people... is an ethically wrong thing to do in the business world.

What if I took an online course, bought some medical equipment, got a website and called myself a doctor. Even though I get lucky with exams... but now I got some questions so I get on a forum to ask what instrument to use for a particular exam...my friends say I'm good at it and they are willing to pay me because I'm pretty good and why pay $100 at the doctors office when they can come to me for half the price? I also have no business liscense, no accountant, no tax forms, etc. Am I still legit?

See why we are telling you this?! Keep shooting and enjoy it... by all means take pictures for friends... but you owe it to a consumer to know what you are doing before you charge for it.

Oh, and by the looks of your pictures on your website... learning white balance would indeed help... its not just a fancy pancy term the pros use... its in chapter 1 of every how-to digital photography book ... good luck!

That's the truth. Well said.

 

[Shelly1204]

Well, if you think the posters on here are rude, just wait until someone expecting a professional photographer pays you to shoot their kids, and you give them snapshots. Not everyone has low expectations. If you're charging money, you have to be prepared for high expectations, not beginner expectations, and advice was given to you accordingly.

You have 10 lenses, but you don't know how to set your white balance? And you're looking to buy another lens? I think you need to slow down, spend some more time with your camera's manual, spend some time on strobist.com and other sites where you can learn about your craft for free. Then, sell some of your lenses, and spend the money on education. "understanding exposure" would be a good place to start. If books aren't your thing, pick up some instructional DVDs geared towards your camera. You can find them used on amazon.com for cheap. Then, look for a local photography meetup group in your area (Do something, Learn something, Share something, Change something - Meetup.com), and meet with and speak to as many people as possible. Good luck.

 

[bazooka]

I'm more of a capitalist myself. I think if she can sell her photos, and wants to, then go for it. Nothing wrong with that. If people aren't happy after they see them, then she'll hear about it, maybe get in some legal issues (or not), and either keep going or not. I know if I took a great shot and someone offered me money for a large print, I'd be ecstatic. I admire the drive of someone who jumps in head first and sticks with it through the ups and downs.

 

[pharmakon]

I Have a piano in my house, my wife is learning to play, but I already know how to plunk out jingle bells on one hand and can play a mean "heart and soul." I can even play a basic scale correctly from watching my wife practice, but I don't know how to read music though. Would you pay me to teach your children piano? Would you pay to watch me play it?

I have pro tools LE on my computer and a couple of mid range microphones. Do you think I might be able to open a successful recording studio in my spare bedroom?

I have a boat and like to go fishing. Sometimes I catch a keeper, most of the time I don't. Think I might be able to make good money as a fishing guide/charter?

Do my questions seem foolish to you?

Of course they do! It takes both experience and education to run a successful business, especially one that is talent, service or skill based.

Even in the american Idol example. Do you think the people that make it past the initial cuts just hang out and party until they start the show? no. They practice, take voice lessons, and work really hard to improve their chances of becoming a professional artist.

Did the military send your husband overseas without first training him on survival, weaponry, hand to hand combat, and many other essential skills? Do you think the soldier sitting next to him in the convoy would have to ask what kind of ammunition goes in his rifle?

Look at it from a different perspective and see that by opening a photography business and therefore taking the title of professional without the required skill and training you are insulting those that have worked hard for years to perfect the art and get where they are today.

I'm not trying to discourage you from following your dream, if that is what you are doing with this, but I agree with the others that say you should have a thorough understanding of the art and be able to consistently produce outstanding results before you start charging people.

I saw you mentioned that you have a wonderful opportunity to take the NYIP course for FREE! My advice to you would be to take that up and give it everything you have. Once you have finished the course look back at this thread, and the photos referenced, to see if the harsh criticisms you received might make more sense to you after you develop your photographic skills and vision.

First you must master your craft, then draft your business plan. Don't sell your self short, make a profit with your skill instead of just trying to break even on your equipment purchases by the time they need replaced.

And for my final words of wisdom for the day... I remember part of a speech from the first year of grad school about the long road ahead in our education. I don't remember exactly what it was but here's the meat and potatoes so to speak:

At some point in your education you will come across the realisation of just how much you really don't know, and it is at this point you can be confident that you have made at least some progress.

Keep shooting :thumbup:

 

[mammarazzi]

You guys say that someone may be expecting her to be professional and all but yet you forget that she's got a web site out there for people to look at. That will let people know if she is what they are looking for. And if they aren't checking it out then they probably wouldn't care. I think the smart people would want to know what there getting right? I don't openly charge but most people want to give me somthing just for my time. I know for a fact that there are people on here in hiding because I posted this when I bacame a member here and there were tons of ya'll that charge sitting fees because you value your time and such....or you're just so tired of argueing you just gave up like me.

 

[jackieclayton]

I am also new and I can relate to the OPs feelings. How can a newbie feel comfortable posting openly if they think they are going to be slammed by the old timers? If words were chosen as carefully as photographs were taken by some of the responders, she would welcome your feedback more readily. It seems that because this is digital and not face-to-face, some responders choose to respond with a negative disposition (even rude) rather than a positive. Almost anything can be said in a positive manner. I am sure you do not talk that way to people in your daily business practices.

:thumbup: That is right!

Like I said, I wouldn't want some of these Photographers taking pictures of my son knowing the rudeness they have.

I am a nice person, and I can except harsh things.. But i've seen tons of plain out rude!

Their feedback and post did nothing for me but just be negative. Which
it will go in one ear and out the other because of the rudeness. If it were given in a different approach, it may have been more helpful.

In the meantime.. i'll keep doing what i do.

Nina, you're right... NO ONE on here deserves to be responded to in a rude way (unless youre trolling the forum posting crap). There is truth, but there's always a nice way to say it.

I normally don't respond to these threads, because I see them about 5 times a week someone asking questions about a gig coming up and they aren't prepared for and the same posters laugh and tell them to pick up their camera and practice before taking money... but as one "mom with a camera" to another, I find truth in what the peeps on here are saying... they aren't saying this to belittle you, but to genuinely help you out in the long run. If this is such a life passion to you (as you stated in your website), then you owe it to yourself to spend time to really learn the art and technique... which is not something that is going to come overnight. Have fun with it, and trust me you will find GREAT advice from amateurs and pros alike on this site... i've learned SO much already so please don't dismiss the feedback you've gotten here on this thread.

I was looking through a photoblog the other day, and I told my husband "wow, I wish I could take some shots like these." He told me a story his father told him: After a concert, a woman had the opportunity to meet Mozart. She said, "I have a piano and love to play... I would love to play music like you one day" and Mozart replied "you can, if you practice 12 hours a day every day for the past 20 years..." How can we expect to become great if we don't take the time to learn? The great ones earn money and are respected. And as you can see from the responses to your post and to similiar posts, ones that don't take the time to master their "profession" that they start a business with generally aren't respected in the art community.

Good luck and hope to see more posts from you! :hug::

 

[jackieclayton]

At some point in your education you will come across the realisation of just how much you really don't know, and it is at this point you can be confident that you have made at least some progress.

Love it! Thanks for this quote!