Best lens for 12+ family portrait?

[JAC526]

You guys are right. If your in a park all you gotta do is back up. I am an idiot.

 

[MLeeK]

Yeah, good point. Though the issue I always have with telephotos and big groups is that if you're that far away, they tend to lose their pose very easy and it's harder to direct.

Also somewhat depends on exactly how many 12+ is, and what individuals make up the 12+. 13 grown adults and 2-3 kids is wildly different from 5 adults and 7 kids.

I generally find that if you shout loud enough (if you happen to be far away) and have a commanding voice, even small children will listen. That's just been my method.

I have one of those air horn things you have to have on a boat! It works wonders to get everyone's attention. Although it can cause havoc with little ones. My grand daughter LOVES it, most don't!
I do know you can buy cheaper knock offs that aren't so loud in the Dollar General party stuff. I'd venture to guess you could get them in Party City or anything of the sort.

 

[MLeeK]

I know I have been posting on here a lot, boarderline annoying... but i get a lot of good info here.

I am doing a family shoot (fml) 2 weeks from now outside at a park. there is 4 kids 8 adults i think and I want to rent a lens that is going to give me good bokeh with that many people in the shot. is this possible? maybe something like this...

http://pinkfogphotography.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/family-photography2.jpg

Bokeh is going to be the lens, of course, but it's also going to have a LOT to do with your distance to the subjects being closer than your distance to the background you want to go all circly on you. You want them to be further from the background than the distance between you and them. Probably a fair bit too.
You are going to need to use a bit smaller aperture compared to the guidelines I gave you about the # of people and aperture. Totally doable. Be very careful of the desire to use a very wide aperture to get that bokeh. If they're all near the same plane as in Robin's shot you are probably fine at f/3.5 and MAYBE even 2.8. If they are a bit more spread apart from front to back you will need to be at maybe 5.6. F/4 at 28mm and 10 feet from camera to subject you have a DOF of about 6 feet front to back on a crop sensor. I'd bank on about 5 of that being acceptable to me. Safe zone. Spend some time with the DOF calculator to make sure you are prepared for that part of it. You can get a DOF calculator on any smart phone too, so if you need it on the fly it's there.
For the bokeh part you are going to want to use the narrowest aperture you can and still achieve good focus. So, first back to the aperture for focus, then choose the lowest aperture you are feeling safe using.

As to what lens: I'd use my 28mm for this one. I prefer to be as close as I can to the subjects without major distortion problems. Really I could use my 70-200 and still get a stunning image, I just know that I am going to produce an image like that to hang in a HUGE print piece, so I want every. damn. little. nose. hair. If I were producing it for your canvas size in the other post I wouldn't be so finicky about the closest possible distance.
I know that many like the 35mm and the 24mm primes. There's always the 24-70 which would give you some excellent quality along with some flexibility for this shoot. If I had to depend upon one lens that'd be the one I go to.

 

[fjrabon]

This thread is full of win! Several recommendations to shoot portraiture with an UWA lens, really???

For the OP, aperture size is going to play less of a role in your DOF than the the distance from you to your subject and the subject to background distance. If you are actually talking about bokeh, the quality of the out of focus area, then look for a high number of rounded aperture blades.

16mm on a crop body isn't really UWA though. that's basically 24mm on a full frame, which has been a fairly standard length for large groups over the years. Now that I think about it, 12 isn't quite as wide as my head had it, but you'd still ahve to see how they looked when put together. Having one focal length and making it work no matter what probably isn't a great idea. I think a lot depends on just how big this group is. 12+ adults is a vastly different framing than 5 adults and 7 children. I think 35 on a crop is about my personal ideal for a large group. That's a FOV of 50mm on a FF, which is a pretty standard portraiture length even for individuals, let alone groups. Like I said, if that fits it in, that's the focal length I'd personally go with.

Also, with groups I do like to have some depth to the family, so it doesn't look like they're all cardboard cutouts pasted to one another. I'm definitely not a fan of really long lengths with a group. Though I guess that's more a personal style thing than a 'definite don't'. To me, it just looks really artificial and the people seem to have no life in them. In some ways it might be more flattering, but to me at too great of an expense of killing the character. It's the same reason I prefer 60mm on a crop frame for individual portraits. Sure, you could get more compression at 130mm, but you lose a lot of depth and character to their face as well.

 

[sactown024]

Glass and gear doesn't carry the 24-70 2.8, but then again I prolly won't be shooting at less than f4.

Space is not an issue so that being said would a prime give me a sharper image and better bokeh than a zoom?

 

[sactown024]

8 adults

1 year old
2 YO
6YO
10YO

 

[MLeeK]

Glass and gear doesn't carry the 24-70 2.8, but then again I prolly won't be shooting at less than f4.

Space is not an issue so that being said would a prime give me a sharper image and better bokeh than a zoom?

Primes are THE sharpest lenses. There is no compromise as there is across a zoom.
Glass and gear carries the 24-70 Canon EF 24-70 f/2.8L USM - Glass and Gear - Photographic and Entertainment Equipment Rental

 

[sactown024]

Glass and gear doesn't carry the 24-70 2.8, but then again I prolly won't be shooting at less than f4.

Space is not an issue so that being said would a prime give me a sharper image and better bokeh than a zoom?

Primes are THE sharpest lenses. There is no compromise as there is across a zoom.
Glass and gear carries the 24-70 Canon EF 24-70 f/2.8L USM - Glass and Gear - Photographic and Entertainment Equipment Rental

stand corrected

Should I dare use my 50mm 1.8?

so if space is not an issue, there is no advantage of a 24-70 over say a 35 1.4 or a 85mm, right?

 

[KmH]

Bokeh is not adjustable, but depth-of-field is.

 

[fjrabon]

so with 8 grown adults, they're probably not going to be willing to have two rows of adults. So you're looking at 8 wide adults and 4 kids up front (or maybe the 1YO is held?).

Your first decision lens wise is how much compression you want. This is much more important than bokeh concerns. Do you want the very flattering compression, or do you want a bit more depth? That's where I'd start. do you want a very flattering, 'distant looking' photo or a slightly more alive, slightly less flattering 'close looking' portrait?

If your background is far enough back, the bokeh will take care of itself if you have even a half decent lens.

Longer and shorter focal lengths are somewhat going to cancel each other out as far as background blurriness goes, because with the longer lengths you'll be forced to be farther away, with the shorter ones you'll be closer. Your background will be plenty creamy with a 35mm f/1.4 or 50mm f/1.4. Just as it will be plenty creamy with a 135mm f/2.8

How close you are to your subject, how far away your background is are the two most important things. Then you worry about f/stop and focal length.

 

[fjrabon]

Glass and gear doesn't carry the 24-70 2.8, but then again I prolly won't be shooting at less than f4.

Space is not an issue so that being said would a prime give me a sharper image and better bokeh than a zoom?

Primes are THE sharpest lenses. There is no compromise as there is across a zoom.
Glass and gear carries the 24-70 Canon EF 24-70 f/2.8L USM - Glass and Gear - Photographic and Entertainment Equipment Rental

stand corrected

Should I dare use my 50mm 1.8?

so if space is not an issue, there is no advantage of a 24-70 over say a 35 1.4 or a 85mm, right?

Compression v. depth.

 

[o hey tyler]

Longer and shorter focal lengths are somewhat going to cancel each other out as far as background blurriness goes, because with the longer lengths you'll be forced to be farther away, with the shorter ones you'll be closer. Your background will be plenty creamy with a 35mm f/1.4 or 50mm f/1.4. Just as it will be plenty creamy with a 135mm f/2.8.

Sorry but this is not true. Shooting a 135/2L is going to produce a much "creamier" background than a 35/1.4L with the same subject framing.

 

[fjrabon]

Longer and shorter focal lengths are somewhat going to cancel each other out as far as background blurriness goes, because with the longer lengths you'll be forced to be farther away, with the shorter ones you'll be closer. Your background will be plenty creamy with a 35mm f/1.4 or 50mm f/1.4. Just as it will be plenty creamy with a 135mm f/2.8.

Sorry but this is not true. Shooting a 135/2L is going to produce a much "creamier" background than a 35/1.4L with the same subject framing.

Sure, it will be creamier, but probably to the point of not being able to notice.

This was shot with a 35mm f/1.8


DSC_0160 by franklinrabon, on Flickr

I think that's plenty creamy enough, and the background was only about 20 feet away. Sure, it won't be AS creamy, but being able to stand about twice as close will make up a lot of the focal length blur effects.

and furthermore, with a group, creaminess is going to be dictated more by the DoF you need to have everybody in the group in focus, more than the max aperture or focal length of your lens. Any decent lens you get of the ones that have been discussed in this thread is going to be able to have such thin DoF that being able to get a blurred background will be much more a function of how far away the background is, because of the necessity of having at least 3-4 feet of sharp focal depth for the group.

So even if the 135mm does give a creamier background, it won't matter, because you won't be able to max it out without making some of the people appear a little soft. The background creaminess will almost entirely be dictated by the distance of the background.

 

[sactown024]

well since I am shooting 12 people, shooting at 1.4 isnt going to be happening right? In order to have everyone in focus ill be looking at at least f4?

 

[fjrabon]

well since I am shooting 12 people, shooting at 1.4 isnt going to be happening right? In order to have everyone in focus ill be looking at at least f4?

Depends on your focal length, how close you are and how wide the group is spread out. but probably you'll need about f/2.8-4 or thereabout.