Bottom feeding wedding photographers should be flogged

[usayit]

I am a bit confused

Are we angry because someone got paid?
Are we angry because the work is not up to par?

Either way, it was an agreement between the person providing said services and the customer that agreed to them (quality and all). The only time I would feel angry if someone was mislead or a scammed.

I feel a bit sad when I read this....

There was a time that my wife and I were absolutely broke but we wanted to get married. We started out ashamed because we could only do so little to impress both sides of the family. Almost to the point that we seriously considered calling the whole thing off for an elopement. In 2001 (7 years after we our first date), we pulled off the entire wedding for a bargain basement price of just over $6k. We jumped over hoops in hopes to do the most un-American thing... not go into debt. You know what? It was the best damn wedding anyone could have put together. A local college string ensemble earned a good tip to take the financial edge off of their education. A local upstart photographer who lost his equipment in a fire got to shoot at my wedding on borrowed equipment (mine), got a good jumpstart on rebuilding, and I got to keep my negatives. A local business provided a wonderful 3 room setup for the wedding hall, reception, and a couple nights stay during a rough down time. They even went out of their way to provide catering that everyone enjoyed (does anyone remember their dinner on their wedding night?). All those people got a personal shake and thanks from me.... at the end of the night, that is all I could offer.

A couple years later, the pictures were finally printed, dry pressed to board, and matted. They were placed in a wonderful archival box, separated with fine tissue, and a engraved plaque placed on the front. They look like they are just lying there waiting to be framed. I spared no expense on materials for our 2 year anniversary. Why? because I could now afford it.... I could easily afford a fairly expensive wedding today, but would it have been any more special? I doubt it.

See that "bottom-feeder" photographer was honest and still provided as promised... that is all anyone can expect.


What's the other choice... no photographer? because that WAS my "Other choice".

 

[usayit]

Just to be clear...

I'm not saying that all of you professional photographers out there are not worth it... because an experienced photographer IS worth it. I am sure my pictures are not close to the quality that you guys produce. I've had several financially stable couples ask me to do their weddings. I usually turn them down and explain that their special day deserves someone who is far more prepared than I. I usually end up saying that you should get the best you can afford.

I am simply stating that there are couples who simply don't have the funds for your services..... as well as photographers who just want to make a little money. You can't blame them for getting together in agreement.

 

[abraxas]

To go a step further, does it really matter whether there are pictures or not? What do you use them for, a shrine?

 

[UdubBadger]

I am a bit confused

Are we angry because someone got paid?
Are we angry because the work is not up to par?

Either way, it was an agreement between the person providing said services and the customer that agreed to them (quality and all). The only time I would feel angry if someone was mislead or a scammed.

I feel a bit sad when I read this....

There was a time that my wife and I were absolutely broke but we wanted to get married. We started out ashamed because we could only do so little to impress both sides of the family. Almost to the point that we seriously considered calling the whole thing off for an elopement. In 2001 (7 years after we our first date), we pulled off the entire wedding for a bargain basement price of just over $6k. We jumped over hoops in hopes to do the most un-American thing... not go into debt. You know what? It was the best damn wedding anyone could have put together. A local college string ensemble earned a good tip to take the financial edge off of their education. A local upstart photographer who lost his equipment in a fire got to shoot at my wedding on borrowed equipment (mine), got a good jumpstart on rebuilding, and I got to keep my negatives. A local business provided a wonderful 3 room setup for the wedding hall, reception, and a couple nights stay during a rough down time. They even went out of their way to provide catering that everyone enjoyed (does anyone remember their dinner on their wedding night?). All those people got a personal shake and thanks from me.... at the end of the night, that is all I could offer.

A couple years later, the pictures were finally printed, dry pressed to board, and matted. They were placed in a wonderful archival box, separated with fine tissue, and a engraved plaque placed on the front. They look like they are just lying there waiting to be framed. I spared no expense on materials for our 2 year anniversary. Why? because I could now afford it.... I could easily afford a fairly expensive wedding today, but would it have been any more special? I doubt it.

See that "bottom-feeder" photographer was honest and still provided as promised... that is all anyone can expect.


What's the other choice... no photographer? because that WAS my "Other choice".

i think it was more along the lines of "people charging professional prices for sub professional work". Especially in a place like Madison where there aren't too many studios around, people think paying $1000 for some dude with a camera and a website is normal when in fact that same $1000 could get someone with 10-15 yrs experience and better skills down in Chicago. I think someone said you get what you pay for which is true, but it seems like people think they can charge less than a pro but shoot crap that your crazy one eyed uncle could have done for a 6 pack of Pabst Blue Ribbon and a lap dance at the bachelor party. I agree there might be a niche for joe schmoe who owns a digital camera and can come by at the time you need him, but of course everyone makes themselves out to be better than they really are and if one guy pays them $1000 then they can justify asking for it over and over.

again as stated above, people just need to be more aware of who they hire and their expectations of the work they want to see. If they don't even have a portfolio then they obviously aren't anything close to being a pro.

 

[sabbath999]

I am a bit confused

Are we angry because someone got paid?
Are we angry because the work is not up to par?

I don't know about WE... I can only speak for me...

I am angry that people are out there using Kodak point & shoots and selling themselves as professional wedding photographers.

The pictures look bad, it makes REAL professional wedding photographers look bad by association (after all, both these bottom feeders and the good ones are "pros"), and the people who paid the money didn't get a good product for their hard earned money.

I am offended that there are multiple people in my area advertising professional services and giving CRAP pictures to their customers.

I don't like seeing people getting ripped off by "pro" wedding photographers ruining pictures of an event that cannot be reshot.

 

[UdubBadger]

I don't know about WE... I can only speak for me...

I am angry that people are out there using Kodak point & shoots and selling themselves as professional wedding photographers.

The pictures look bad, it makes REAL professional wedding photographers look bad by association (after all, both these bottom feeders and the good ones are "pros"), and the people who paid the money didn't get a good product for their hard earned money.

I am offended that there are multiple people in my area advertising professional services and giving CRAP pictures to their customers.

I don't like seeing people getting ripped off by "pro" wedding photographers ruining pictures of an event that cannot be reshot.

Hey... theres always divorce right?

 

[craig]

Yeah well... What are you trying to say here? Not like this is an original thought. Not like this thing doesn't happen all the time. What did these friends expect for $400. That is at least $1,600 cheaper then the going rate. Did they look at the photographers portfolio?

The people who need to be flogged are the ones that fall into this conundrum. There would be no market for it if retail clients knew the facts before hand. As photographers it is our duty to school the public whenever possible. Bitching at a forum of retail photographers is not really helping matters. Neither is post processing another photographers files. If I was that photographer I would definitely flogg you for touching my files. And let me guess; you gave away your services for a Christmas present. Meanwhile some Photoshop Wizard is going to laugh at your work and say that the photos should have been professionally retouched.

Love & Bass

 

[mrodgers]

Around me with school portraits, there is one photographer who is contracted through ALL the schools. He makes a killing, lives in a giant house (one of the biggest around), and drives expensive luxury cars.

I play around with my Fuji superzoom doing portraits of my girls all the time. Looking at the Walmart 8X10 from their $5 package of my 4 year old and my 7 year old's 8x10 from her $40 package of school portraits, the Walmart photo is a far better photo. My 4 year old is sharp and in focus, the 7 year old is soft and fuzzy.

Both 8x10s have since been removed and replaced with candid portraits done on a picnic this past Labor Day that I took and printed from my $200 "point and shoot". My 2 photos from my cheap camera is probably 10 times better result than what the "photographer's" school photos were, and I don't exactly consider them all that great either based on the quality of the camera used. We did school portraits in kindergarten and 1st grade. We are not buying any more school portraits in the future.

 

[ksmattfish]

A mid-range DSLR, an assortment of lenses, a good flash, and all the accessories and fixin's = $3000ish

Back-up gear = $3000

Other stuff you need = $1000

Professional software = $1000

A computer that will run it all = at least $1000

Add in assorted costs of running a small business, and it's up to $10,000ish (I'd say my estimates are bare bones low).

$10,000/400 = 25 weddings just to break even on gear and basic business costs, and that's not considering anything like print or album costs, gas, insurance, basic expenses, etc....

If they did a wedding every Saturday they'd make another $10,000. The gov wants 25%. Oh boy!! $7500 for a year of working.

People can set their prices where ever they want, but the basic definition of professional is that they are actually making money. If someone hires a "pro" that is really only paying off their gear, then maybe they've actually hired a "hobbyist".

 

[usayit]

I am angry that people are out there using Kodak point & shoots and selling themselves as professional wedding photographers.

Sabbath,

With all due respect, I agree with you on being angry against those unprofessional photographers that sell their services under the disguise of professional work with the intention of scamming a couple out of their hard earned work. I agree those photographers need to be flogged. Flogged NOT because they are (and I use the term lightly) wedding photographers of poor quality but because they are scammers and dishonest.

BUT

In the case you brought up.... that does not seem to be the case. The photographer told them it was her first wedding and only provided CDs with no prints. Here are words from your original post:

the photographer told her it would be one of her first weddings, and only charged them $400... she gave the girl a CD with her pictures on it, and let the girl do her own prints.

I feel that your anger is misdirected. It's not against the "bottom feeding wedding photographer".... after all, they are just trying to make a living and survive (been there done that... almost lost my home). There is a market for them. I think what you are truly angry at are so called scam artists, thieves, and dishonest people of whom some so called photographers do fall under.

With threads/discussions like this, I cannot help but feel that the person I was in 2001 (broke and struggling but very much in love) was not "deserving" of having any photographs taken because I didn't have the thousands of dollars in the bank account. Its this snobby elitist (not calling anyone here that) mentality that I see everyday that is a real turnoff.


btw... The photographer I hired for my wedding was paid $400 and I lent him my Canon Elan with a Tamron 28-135 f/2.8 Asph plus a Canon Flash. He managed to borrow a Canon F1/lens/flash from a friend so he can shoot B&W simultaneously. If he had a point and shoot, I would not have cared. The point was that our special moment was recorded. He stayed the entire event.... before ceremony, during, and reception. I got to keep the negatives.

 

[usayit]

Around me with school portraits, there is one photographer who is contracted through ALL the schools. He makes a killing, lives in a giant house (one of the biggest around), and drives expensive luxury cars.

A large number of the major metropolitan areas' schools districts are subcontracted to a company called LifeTouch. They are one of the largest photography/portrait companies in the entire US. The studios in Target, Flash, Babys'Rus and numbers others are all rebranded services coming from lifetouch. In my immediate area, they are pretty much a monopoly... ranging from newborn daycare to retail to high school pictures.

What you are observing is the same thing that I and many members of this forum have been saying for years!!!! Starting a photography business is mostly about BUSINESS not PHOTOGRAPHY. That fellow you mentioned might not be a better photographer than most but he sure is a better businessman than most.

 

[UdubBadger]

A mid-range DSLR, an assortment of lenses, a good flash, and all the accessories and fixin's = $3000ish

Back-up gear = $3000

Other stuff you need = $1000

Professional software = $1000

A computer that will run it all = at least $1000

Add in assorted costs of running a small business, and it's up to $10,000ish (I'd say my estimates are bare bones low).

$10,000/400 = 25 weddings just to break even on gear and basic business costs, and that's not considering anything like print or album costs, gas, insurance, basic expenses, etc....

If they did a wedding every Saturday they'd make another $10,000. The gov wants 25%. Oh boy!! $7500 for a year of working.

People can set their prices where ever they want, but the basic definition of professional is that they are actually making money. If someone hires a "pro" that is really only paying off their gear, then maybe they've actually hired a "hobbyist".

problem with that is that the people sabbath is referring to (i think) go buy a Rebel XT and kit lens form Best buy for $799 and a cheap $30 1 gig memory card, maybe even some cheap case too. Then they charge $400 per wedding, are pretty much paid off after 2-3 weddings and don't even bother with the rest of the gear, taking their CF cards right to the Walmart or Walgreens kiosk without even thinking about post processing them (unless you consider post processing rotating the picture). You'd also be mistaken if you think these people report what they make to the IRS, most of them have regular jobs M-F. I think the bottom line is its insulting to see that they don't take it as seriously as a lot of other photographers, but because they charge a lot less for low quality they deem that to be ok.

 

[monkeykoder]

A mid-range DSLR, an assortment of lenses, a good flash, and all the accessories and fixin's = $3000ish

Back-up gear = $3000

Other stuff you need = $1000

Professional software = $1000

A computer that will run it all = at least $1000

Add in assorted costs of running a small business, and it's up to $10,000ish (I'd say my estimates are bare bones low).

$10,000/400 = 25 weddings just to break even on gear and basic business costs, and that's not considering anything like print or album costs, gas, insurance, basic expenses, etc....

If they did a wedding every Saturday they'd make another $10,000. The gov wants 25%. Oh boy!! $7500 for a year of working.

People can set their prices where ever they want, but the basic definition of professional is that they are actually making money. If someone hires a "pro" that is really only paying off their gear, then maybe they've actually hired a "hobbyist".

I'd love to think your numbers were a bit on the high side (for a minimal kit) but unless you want to drive yourself crazy switching lenses every 5 sec you'll be at least that (might be possible to get the body+accessories (including lenses) down to $2500 if you're really good). I decided to check your numbers using adorama as my source If someone wanted me to I could post the kit I was pricing to get my numbers and you can laugh at how minimal it is.

P.S. I'm pretty sure you could go a little lower on the computer but that is a relatively minor expense in this scheme so I won't go price that out.

 

[Lacey Anne]

A lot of so-called photographers today charge for crap. People who care will pay for quality. The others... Well, if they aren't willing to spend the money I guess they get what they pay for.

 

[Big Mike]

Part of the problem is that these cheap crappy photographers are spawning others just like them. In a few courses that I've taken, a good percentage of the students were people (women mostly but I'm not judging) who had been disappointed with their own wedding photos...and figured they could spend a grand on a camera and do it themselves.

At least the ones I saw were actually taking a class...many don't even go that far.