Bringing history of photography to the masses, is it a crazy idea?

Your privacy page shows HoPT as an LLC - so does the bottom of the main page on your website. To be an LLC you would need to be a registered business. You said you are not a registered business so why are you promoting yourself as being an LLC?

If your name is Elisa then who is Arjuna Del Toso? Businesses usually disclose their officers or board members.

I've this feeling that my words are falling in a void :( I've already explained the hows and whys of our product market fit discovery strategy. I'm not going to reiterate again or dive into lengthly explanations about why it is an extremely good idea to test your
hypothesis about a product by presenting it as if it was coming from a company (it's well known that people react in different ways to products/services coming from individuals than those coming from a registered company, it's called "empathy"). If you keep digging around the web you will find a couple of more people behind HoPT, most of them are friends or family with a specific skill that helped us in some complex stuff (like registering a domain, or putting online a few webpages), you know, all for free, all as a favor. I will never thank them enough for the support and help.

But the real question here is: why are you so obsessed with names, registration numbers and addresses? Should we really think you are just a troll with too much time to spare? Clearly that would still be fine to us, we appreciate the work that millions of trolls do everyday across web forums to maintain active a multitude of lively conversations.

Nevertheless, to ease your pain and let you finally sleep well again at night, we have modified the website to include a clear explanation of what HoPT is at the moment. Check it out here History of Photography T-Shirts

Aaaaaaand since the goal of this thread is to gather feedback about the product itself, please tell us what you think about our t-shirt Talbot - An Oak Tree in Winter 1842

Thanks,
Elisa
 
Your privacy page shows HoPT as an LLC - so does the bottom of the main page on your website. To be an LLC you would need to be a registered business. You said you are not a registered business so why are you promoting yourself as being an LLC?

If your name is Elisa then who is Arjuna Del Toso? Businesses usually disclose their officers or board members.

I've this feeling that my words are falling in a void :( I've already explained the hows and whys of our product market fit discovery strategy. I'm not going to reiterate again or dive into lengthly explanations about why it is an extremely good idea to test your
hypothesis about a product by presenting it as if it was coming from a company (it's well known that people react in different ways to products/services coming from individuals than those coming from a registered company, it's called "empathy"). If you keep digging around the web you will find a couple of more people behind HoPT, most of them are friends or family with a specific skill that helped us in some complex stuff (like registering a domain, or putting online a few webpages), you know, all for free, all as a favor. I will never thank them enough for the support and help.

But the real question here is: why are you so obsessed with names, registration numbers and addresses? Should we really think you are just a troll with too much time to spare? Clearly that would still be fine to us, we appreciate the work that millions of trolls do everyday across web forums to maintain active a multitude of lively conversations.

Nevertheless, to ease your pain and let you finally sleep well again at night, we have modified the website to include a clear explanation of what HoPT is at the moment. Check it out here History of Photography T-Shirts

Aaaaaaand since the goal of this thread is to gather feedback about the product itself, please tell us what you think about our t-shirt Talbot - An Oak Tree in Winter 1842

Thanks,
Elisa


I think while this may indeed be an interesting project, you must understand that new members whose initial posts are spent trying to sell a product are often met with a higher degree of caution, and even skepticism, then more established members.
"dry run" aside, it is only natural for people to want to verify information before handing over money to a "business". Its simply a safety mechanism. I am sure that everyone who was wondering those same things will appreciate you answering the questions and clearing up any misconceptions about the business.
I would also like to add, that when you say "We are not here to sell the t-shirts", but then your only link is to a webpage selling the t-shirts, I can see where people might feel like something funny is going on.

This forum is a community, and like any other community, it takes a little time and effort to be fully accepted as a contributing member as apposed to someone just passing through dropping links. If your real interest is in photography and/or photographic arts, it would be well worth your time to dig in to some discussions and let people get to know you and your photographic interests. we have a little something for everyone here.
 
Thanks Jason for your explanation.

I keep asking questions Elisa because I don't feel like I've gotten straightforward answers and what you're saying doesn't seem credible to me.
 
I think while this may indeed be an interesting project, you must understand that new members whose initial posts are spent trying to sell a product are often met with a higher degree of caution, and even skepticism, then more established members.
"dry run" aside, it is only natural for people to want to verify information before handing over money to a "business". Its simply a safety mechanism. I am sure that everyone who was wondering those same things will appreciate you answering the questions and clearing up any misconceptions about the business.
I would also like to add, that when you say "We are not here to sell the t-shirts", but then your only link is to a webpage selling the t-shirts, I can see where people might feel like something funny is going on.

This forum is a community, and like any other community, it takes a little time and effort to be fully accepted as a contributing member as apposed to someone just passing through dropping links. If your real interest is in photography and/or photographic arts, it would be well worth your time to dig in to some discussions and let people get to know you and your photographic interests. we have a little something for everyone here.

Thanks @pixmedic, your reasoning is totally understandable and I agree with everything you said, as you can notice I've been asking several times to @vintagesgnaps why she/he wanted to know the people "behind" HoPT because my aim is to record potential "buy intent" from people to be able to assess the market size. Unfortunately, I haven't got a single reply from the user. A simple "I like the idea but I don't trust the website History of Photography T-Shirts because it looks funny so I'm not considering buying the t-shirt." would have been a much more effective conversation instead of the continuos passive-aggressive flow of comments we got from him/her.

Following on your narrative that @vintagesgnaps is genuinely interested in our product, I'll make extremely clear (again) what the situation is:

HoPT - History of Photography T-shirts
Company selling the t-shirt and managing the transaction: Spreadshirt Inc (A Delaware corporation)
People behind the company:
  • Phillip Rooke, CEO
  • Lukasz Gadowski, Founder
  • Matthias Spieß, Co-Founder
  • Rezzo Schlauch, Chairman of the Supervisory Board
  • Mark Venezia: President
HQ Address: Gießerstr. 27, Leipzig, Germany (Europe)
Legal Address: Spreadshirt, Inc., 186 South Street, 1st Floor Boston, MA 02111, USA
Fax: 1-877-202-0251
TOS: General Terms Conditions for Customers Spreadshirt
Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy Spreadshirt
In 2014, Spreadshirt hit global revenue of 72 million Euro, printed more than 3.3 million articles, and shipped to more than 150 countries.

The role of HoPT in this? We prepared a jpeg file and uploaded to spreadshirt.com. *Everything* else is handled by Spreadshirt Inc.

[vintagesgnaps]Hey but you are not answering my question, I want to know who is behind the company HoPT?![/vintagesgnaps]

As discussed many times, there is no HoPT company, it's not registered and thus there is no address, no phone number, no team, nothing.

If you want to know who is behind the HoPT idea (not a registered company), then I'll be happy to share my personal details but since those would be my home address and personal phone number I ask vintagesgnaps to send me a private message with her/his real name and number so I can call back and privately share the information he/she wants.

@pixmedic I still stand my position that vintagesgnaps is ultimately a trolling account or at least shows some trolling personality traits, this obsession with finding who is "behind" things Question re site ownership Photography Forum really doesn't look good, but I appreciate your comment and effort in having a civil conversation and explaining your point of view. I hope my explanation satisfies you and everybody else in this forum.

Rest assured that if we'll decide to register HoPT as a company we will make extremely clear on our web properties who the team behind it is and share all the contact details needed (we heard your feedback and we thank you for it!).

Meanwhile, I ask you to give us your honest opinion about our history of photography t-shirt Talbot - An Oak Tree in Winter 1842 inspired by Talbot (from a product and idea perspective). My feeling at the moment is that the market is not even close enough to be the size needed to sustain the activity, what do you think?

A big hug and have a great day,
Elisa
 
@elisa_hopt , when your first post is directing people to a website where we have to put credit card information in, people get a tad skeptical. I know I am.

Skepticism aside, I balked at the price for the shirt, then realized it was American Apparel. I'm kind of surprised you'd choose a company with such a tumultuous past. Why American Apparel?
 
Last edited:
Elisa, when your first post is directing people to a website where we have to put credit card information in, people get a tad skeptical. I know I am.

Skepticism aside, I balked at the price for the shirt, then realized it was American Apparel. I'm kind of surprised you'd choose a company with such a tumultuous past. Why American Apparel?

Thanks for your comment! Well, unfortunately Spreadshirt offers a very limited selection of t-shirt vendors (the only other being Gildan afaik). I printed this t-shirt for myself and I'm decently happy about the manufacturing (the gildan one seemed kind of worse), the idea (as previously mentioned) is that if we decide to bring forward this project we'll look into finding a vendor other than Spreadshirt that can provide higher quality fabric and hopefully a better printing technique. For this test Spreadshirt is just extremely convenient because it let us presenting the product to people without having to setup a company, we tried other online platforms (like RedBubble) but were not really satisfied with either the print or the online shop they provide you.

Your comment about pricing is really helpful, pricing is historically the most complex part in setting up a product, would your opinion change if we were to offer high quality fabric and better printing for the same price or do you have a max price you are willing to pay for a t-shirt? And if the latter, may I ask what that threshold is?

Have a great day!
Elisa
 
For me personally, $20 is about as much as I would ever spend on a t-shirt, and for $20 it had better have a pocket on it. If I were to consider spending around the $30 mark, it would be for a polo.
 
Thanks for your comment! Well, unfortunately Spreadshirt offers a very limited selection of t-shirt vendors (the only other being Gildan afaik). I printed this t-shirt for myself and I'm decently happy about the manufacturing (the gildan one seemed kind of worse), the idea (as previously mentioned) is that if we decide to bring forward this project we'll look into finding a vendor other than Spreadshirt that can provide higher quality fabric and hopefully a better printing technique. For this test Spreadshirt is just extremely convenient because it let us presenting the product to people without having to setup a company, we tried other online platforms (like RedBubble) but were not really satisfied with either the print or the online shop they provide you.
Understood that they have a limited selection, but there are other companies out there. I'm not sure if you followed my 'tumultuous' comment. American Apparel is one of those companies that makes me not want to buy from them. For example:
  • Its CEO has been repeatedly accused of sexual harassment
  • It was sued for allegedly firing a cancer patient
  • Its employees are allegedly hired and fired based on how hot they are
  • A factory worker died on the job
  • Its been accused of racism
  • Its ads get banned a lot
  • It almost went bankrupt
  • Its CEO allegedly throws dirt at people
  • It hired unauthorized workers
See the previous list with explanations here: 10 Scandals That Totally Rocked American Apparel PHOTOS

I won't step foot in their stores or purchase from them. So, there's that.

Your comment about pricing is really helpful, pricing is historically the most complex part in setting up a product, would your opinion change if we were to offer high quality fabric and better printing for the same price or do you have a max price you are willing to pay for a t-shirt? And if the latter, may I ask what that threshold is?
I'm a single data point, so please don't change pricing on my sole opinion. However, if the quality of the t-shirt was really, really good, and I really liked the shirt and it was one of a kind made by a local company with hopefully sustainable materials, I'd pay up to $30. Again, this is depending on the shirt and how much I liked it. For this type of shirt, my threshold would be at $20 (with me dragging my feet), even if it's a really good quality t-shirt.

I am more utilitarian with my clothing choices, and I would much rather spend my money elsewhere. If I do splurge on clothing, it's not on t-shirts. Sorry. It'd be on polos, dress shirts, suits, pants, shoes, and related accessories (e.g., ties, belts). Not t-shirts.
 
I've been a member here for a couple of years so people here know who I am.

The T shirt is a nice enough looking copy of the Talbot photograph; I have no idea if people would want to buy it or how well it might sell.

This has been presented as selling the T shirts, not just asking for suggestions and input. If you wanted to get some opinions maybe you could have shown a photo of your own T shirt to see if people liked it. But you are actually selling them, that seems to indicate a business.

The info. you cited seems to be for Spreadshirt, I'd already looked them up. That's my point, I can look them up like Wade looked up American Apparel and find out info. about the company. You say you're doing market research but then want potential customers to provide credit card numbers to purchase T shirts. That doesn't seem to make sense if you aren't yet in business.

If you are doing marketing to get a venture off the ground there are resources from professional organizations and websites. Some that are photography related are ASMP, PPA, and the Photo District News but those may not relate so much to selling photography themed apparel.
 
Understood that they have a limited selection, but there are other companies out there. I'm not sure if you followed my 'tumultuous' comment. American Apparel is one of those companies that makes me not want to buy from them. For example:
  • Its CEO has been repeatedly accused of sexual harassment
  • It was sued for allegedly firing a cancer patient
  • Its employees are allegedly hired and fired based on how hot they are
  • A factory worker died on the job
  • Its been accused of racism
  • Its ads get banned a lot
  • It almost went bankrupt
  • Its CEO allegedly throws dirt at people
  • It hired unauthorized workers
See the previous list with explanations here: 10 Scandals That Totally Rocked American Apparel PHOTOS

I won't step foot in their stores or purchase from them. So, there's that.

Awh, I knew they almost failed few years ago but had no clue about their CEO! Check out this fresh news Here Are the Gross Horny Texts Dov Bad Daddy Charney Sent to Employees
As soon as this test we are running is over we'll look into other brands, that's for sure! At least he was fired from the company. Anyway the dream for us would be to source fabric from developing countries by using secure channels that guarantee a safe work environment, decent salaries and a sustainable green production and have then the printing and handling done by a vendor in California. But that's just a dream, we need to scope the market size first =)
 
Anyway the dream for us would be to source fabric from developing countries by using secure channels that guarantee a safe work environment, decent salaries and a sustainable green production and have then the printing and handling done by a vendor in California. But that's just a dream, we need to scope the market size first =)
Your dream probably won't happen, and I think most people understand that. But, don't deflect. You need to scope the market first, but you CAN source from companies that have a consistent history. You say you need to scope the market first, but in this instance, you sourced first. And you sourced American Apparel.

People DO care about what product they're buying. They WILL care about the brand of the shirt.

People DON'T care about your unwillingness to find another source or another company.

First impressions mean a lot, and the problem here (at least for me) is that the American Apparel thing took me away from your company, and all I can now think about is the t-shirt source company. That's not a good thing. I got diverted from your company and your product line. You want to drive people to your business, not away from it. If I saw your shirt on a rack at some store, and looked at the tag and saw that company, I'd pass it by without thinking.

FWIW, other places I don't shop: Wal-Mart. Hobby Lobby. Chik-Fil-A. Barneys (not that I could afford anything in there anyways). Abercrombie and Fitch (then again, I'm not a 13 year old...). And any stores that seem to put politics/religion before their products. Or places that have ignorant signs in their windows. Especially ones where a 'requirement' is to 'speak English'. Or where they strictly sell 'Freedom Fries' in place of 'french fries'. But, I digress.
 
I would spend $25 on a niche T-Shirt. Not my everyday T-Shirts but something that is more personal and reflective of who I am than your everyday big box store brands.
 
It occurred to me that someone wanting my personal contact info. and not seeming to provide the same can often be the indication of a possible scammer. I think the .me used for the website is a red flag that this might actually be somewhere overseas but I can't tell for sure.
 
Last edited:

Most reactions

Back
Top