Buying a camera is frustrating

[usayit]

Yes but Minolta's digital SLR range were actually Konica-Minolta... so now they would have to be called Sony-Konica-Minolta! Or Sony Monica

Sonicolta?

 

[usayit]

My guess....

Most of the consumer market do not see DLSRs as a photographic product.. more like a consumer electronic product. Hence why the small mom and pop camera shops are going out of business. Now a days, the biggest resellers are your typical Best Buy, Compusa, and Circuit City. It is also why most people looking for a "camera" are more concerned with compactness (point and shoots) rather than great optics. Less of the population are going to camera shops for cameras. Instead they are going to electronic stores. With that in mind.... Sony has a bigger name in consumer electronics than Minolta or Konica.

When was the last time you saw Leica/Hasselblad/Voigtlander etc at a consumer electronics store? Nope.. because those names are still attached with photographic equipment.

 

[Don Simon]

My guess....

Most of the consumer market do not see DLSRs as a photographic product.. more like a consumer electronic product. Hence why the small mom and pop camera shops are going out of business. Now a days, the biggest resellers are your typical Best Buy, Compusa, and Circuit City. It is also why most people looking for a "camera" are more concerned with compactness (point and shoots) rather than great optics. Less of the population are going to camera shops for cameras. Instead they are going to electronic stores.

I think you're completely right. Normally I would start complaining about this, because it's likely to encourage the kind of situation where the staff are selling expensive cameras with crappy lenses and not knowing the first thing about photography... but then that's always happened. Maybe I'm just noticing it more now. The other day I wandered into a camera shop (not an electronics shop but a photographic shop, although naturally they only sold digital products), took a look around and asked if they had any prime lenses... the assistant didn't know what I meant. The most depressing thing is I wasn't even slightly surprised.

 

[usayit]

To think of it... I'm not surprised either...

Zooms out sell primes several times to one. Why? Because consumers see zooms as technology to bring things closer as a matter of convenience. Rarely do consumers ( not photographers ) see how focal length actually change the composition. A prime lens (even cheap ones) would never sell at an electronics store since "foot" zoom would never stack up against the convenience of optical zoom.

Why do you think P&S rate zoom range in terms of 5x, 10x, 14x.. etc? Its a whole lot easier for the typical consumer to understand than 50mm, 100mm, 200mm, 400mm..

Whether or not we like it... our beloved Digital Cameras are nothing more than disposable electronics. They are no longer the mechanical wonders of precision that they used to be.... This is the reason why I find enjoyment with older manual cameras and rangefinders. (Iron and I own Leicas in much the same way people own Rolex watches)

I'm totally excited with Sony's entrance into the market.. I do hope they are eventually excepted by professionals as well. The only sad thing I can see happening from Sony's entrance is that much of the market they can steal will initially eat away at the small guy on the block.. meaning Pentax. Sorry Jeremy..

btw.. Pentax recently merged with Hoya. I don't think it will help much.. Asahi Pentax is a company that has pioneered the 35mm SLR and has a wonderful history. They are the ones that proved that compactness is a good thing... unfortunately now... they are a company without much of a identity. It pains me as I love my Pentax.

 

[Jeremy Z]

The only sad thing I can see happening from Sony's entrance is that much of the market they can steal will initially eat away at the small guy on the block.. meaning Pentax. Sorry Jeremy...

Oh geez. :roll:

You made me go and break out this old chestnut:

Seriously though. Pentax isn't down for the count just because they're merging with Hoya. Hoya is owned by the same company that owns Tokina. It may actually be good for Pentax's lens line in the long run.

Plus, Pentax (at least very recently) has been very good at seeing what people really want instead of just mindlessly increasing resolution.

Time will tell.

I love the old mechanicals too.

 

[usayit]

Its easy to say troll... but you can't ignore the fact that between Canon, Nikon, Olympus, Pentax, and Sony they (Pentax) are the small kid on the block. I never said they were out for the count... simply stated as Sony (with much deeper pockets) moves in and grabs market share, that market share will come out of Pentax before it will come out of Nikon or Canon's share.

The key is that Pentax needs to re-establish its identity.

 

[usayit]

Oh yeh.. forgot to mention the shrinking lineup of lenses from Tokina.. oh well.

 

[cloose]

Whooohoo...
Read what ZaphodB said... read it again... Landmark photos have been made well before IS was around.

In regards to Sony.....

Sony is HUGE.. with pocketbooks and R&D capability.
Sony is a leader in CONSUMER and professional electronics.
Sony IS a camera company. For YEARS they have made cameras... not DSLRs but cameras.
Sony did not have any SLR camera design group to compete with Nikon and Canon.
Sony makes more than 80% of all the CCDs used in digital cameras today.
Face it... cameras todays are electronic gizmos.. they are not the mechanical wonders they used to be.

Take all that

Add the purchase of Minolta.
Add the puchase of Minolta's expertise
Add the partnership with Zeiss to produce high end lenses
Add the backward compatibility of Minotla's equipment and pre-existing customer base.

and you guys still think they don't have a chance? My opinion, the only thing that can really screw this up is mismanagement and planning oversight on Sony. NO... I do not shoot with Sony (although I have a Minolta 7000) but I find their entrance into the market very exciting. I've already bet money on it.

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While I agree that the Sony entry is exciting from a number of perspectives (competition is GOOD for the consumer) lets not kid ourselves that they are so far above the others in revenues that they can buy their way into the leading market share. They are all multi-billion dollar sales companies. Sony will have a camera division that has a specific budget. And guaranteed, it will be tiny compared to what they have for TV or even audio components divisions.

 

[sothoth]

Sony makes more than 80% of all the CCDs used in digital cameras today. Face it... cameras todays are electronic gizmos.. they are not the mechanical wonders they used to be.

I agree. However I also think it will take some time for their DSLR cameras to penetrate the "serious" market. I'm guessing the pros will stick with other brands for a while. Not that Sony isn't capable of building their reputation (and they certainly do an awesome job at anything they put their mind to) but they also make some collosal blunders (betamax, mini-disc, etc) and often try to force things on people that no one wants. Sony has a lot going for them. They should start by convincing serious ameteurs to buy their stuff and then work on the high end folks if they want to be serious. And they have to continue to build out their selection of branded lenses, accessories, etc, to start getting more traction.

Sony will have a camera division that has a specific budget. And guaranteed, it will be tiny compared to what they have for TV or even audio components divisions.

I think they may underestimate what else is involved with a camera besides having a good CCD inside it. It's like the old saying about buying a 35mm body: buy a cheap/basic body, buy quality/expensive lenses. It's less true these days since the body's sensor is important and image processing is JUST AS important, but it's still correct to say that a serious ameteur or a pro might spend 2x-100x as much money on the other components as they did on the camera body. The real question is what is Sony's commitment to DSLRs (as opposed to P&S) and will they do it all correctly. If they do, they'll be a major player.

 

[jimiismydaddy]

Hmm, imagine if Sony and Google merged. lol

 

[Don Simon]

Hmm, imagine if Sony and Google merged. lol

Snoogly?

 

[eravedesigns]

Get the Sony. I currently own the Sony alpha 100. Its a great camera and is getting amazing reviews. like some other users said sony is comming out with a bang and has tons of lenses and new technology under its belt. I just watched a video of an interview with the sony camera department and they said they have a new body ready to go that they will be releasing when the time is right. Noise is a bit high but why the hell would you shoot at 1600 in the first place thats just nasty. Sony has the newest craziest stuff like the auto eye detecter stuff and with their potential of more professional cameras to come and a amazing lense line up already there should be no doubt in which camera to get.

 

[cloose]

Get the Sony. I currently own the Sony alpha 100. Its a great camera and is getting amazing reviews. like some other users said sony is comming out with a bang and has tons of lenses and new technology under its belt. I just watched a video of an interview with the sony camera department and they said they have a new body ready to go that they will be releasing when the time is right. Noise is a bit high but why the hell would you shoot at 1600 in the first place thats just nasty. Sony has the newest craziest stuff like the auto eye detecter stuff and with their potential of more professional cameras to come and a amazing lense line up already there should be no doubt in which camera to get.

Personally, I would rather take a camera body that performs well against "crazy stuff". Can't shoot at 1600 ISO? Not much technology there if you ask me.

 

[table1349]

Get the Sony. I currently own the Sony alpha 100. Its a great camera and is getting amazing reviews.

If reviews mean anything to you read this one. Just out from Popular Photography.

http://www.popphoto.com/cameras/3569/10mp-dslr-shootout.html

 

[Don Simon]

Sony has the newest craziest stuff like the auto eye detecter stuff

As you've probably seen I'm all for considering a Sony system, but let's not give praise where it's not due. The "auto eye detector stuff" is far from new; it's been on Minolta SLRs for at least 15 years.