Buying attitude

Discussion in 'Photographic Discussions' started by panocho, May 16, 2007.

  1. panocho

    panocho TPF Noob!

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    Well, I didn't really know how to title this thread, so I tried that.

    The thing is: day after day, I keep noticing that a lot of people post asking about what to get (most of the times on Canon, by the way), and normally it is a set of things which amounts to serious money. And, also normally, the posts come from people who are getting their first (d)SLR.

    I must say I'm surprised. I'm not old, so I couldn't say "this didn't happen before", but I really suspect it didn't. I guess that people just got some SLR (a cheap one, to start with) with a 50mm, and only after some (long) time and a lot of shots, they started getting more lenses, etc. At least that's how it worked with me, anyway.

    So my questions, or simply my thoughts, are:

    -why does people do that?
    -is it a good idea?

    to number 2 I definitely answer NO. I think it's crazy spending such money in a first camera. Specially considering that a first dSLR is already really expensive. But no, that's not all: people considers buying (and buy!) extra lenses, and all of great quality, if possible. Again, I think it's crazy!

    to number 1, I just guess: and guess that it has to do with the bombardment of publicity of every kind, and that there are no cheap dSLR's, so since you have to spend money anyway, why not going for the best!
    -and then, of course, that people have the (many) hundreds (even thousands) to spend -on something that, sometimes (and please, nobody be offended!) they just don't know how to use
     
  2. Sw1tchFX

    Sw1tchFX TPF Noob!

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    I agree, but alot of it is done on themselves. There was a newer thread where someone had just bought a new Rebel and was already asking what other lenses they should buy without knowing what the kit 18-55 was good for.
     
  3. Don Simon

    Don Simon TPF Noob!

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    All I can say is, I wish I could afford to have that attitude :lol:
     
  4. gmarquez

    gmarquez TPF Noob!

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    People (at least Americans and Japanese) like toys. The more expensive toys also seem to confer some degree of "status" to the owner...for example, "if that guy can afford to buy that expensive camera, he *must* be rich".

    The advertising business helps foster this attitude, to sell more products (and more expensive products) to willing consumers.

    As long as it's not my money they are spending, I have no problem with someone buying more equipment than they have the ability or time to use.

    My response would be equivilent to the older California saying: "whoa, dude, whatever!" :headbang:
     
  5. panocho

    panocho TPF Noob!

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    know what you mean, but that's not what I had in mind when asking why do people do that. I rather think on people who seem to worry about photography (in fact they post here) and have the weird idea that they need a good and big equipment.
    to me this sounds like a saying we have: something like "to start the house from the roof".
     
  6. LaFoto

    LaFoto Just Corinna in real life Staff Member Supporting Member

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    Yes, Panocho, it is surprising.
    And I was equally surprised to see that there are some teenagers on this forum (and I am HAPPY for all those who might "recognise" themselves now) who already use cameras that are better and more expensive than mine ... and I got round to getting my very first SLR camera in 1999, the year I turned 40 (!). Things have developed a little faster from then on, I used a borrowed Finepix of the earliest generation as the first digital camera I ever held in hands between 2004 and early 2005, then had to hand that one back and bought myself a compact digital camera (Powershot) because the borrowed one had "infected" me with the "digital virus". I myself got my first (and for a long time also last, cause one and only) DSLR on the day I turned 46 (!), that is 40 years later than some here.

    This fast and quick buying (of expensive things) is not what I am used to and should not be what my children will get used to, although in a way they do, albeit in other areas of life - my son will never be happy any more with a run-of-the-mill racer or mountain bike. He'll always look for the "brand", the hand-tailored variety, the EXPENSIVE one, in other words... so there. :roll:
     
  7. panocho

    panocho TPF Noob!

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    just another remark: I also like toys. very much. in fact, i firstly think on my cameras as toys: toys to play with. but, as i mentioned, some people do not even know how to function the incredibly expensive set-of-toys they buy
     
  8. Garbz

    Garbz No longer a newbie, moving up!

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    There are a few reasons why people would go for something nicer but I agree mostly they are unfounded. I think back to a recent thread where someone with his brand new D200 wanted to take photos of his kid playing soccer or baseball or whatever it was, and not knowing anything about exposure or ISO and I believe the pic he posted was at ISO100 f/8, he was honestly considering getting the 70-200mm f/2.8 VR from Nikon's professional range to combat blurry photos. Well if he has $2000AU laying under his bed good for him, but he would have had the same blurry photos as he got using his current lens.

    The most I can ever recommend for beginners is a 350D or a Nikon D70, I don't recommend the D40 because often beginners aren't all that rich and could benefit from autofocus on second hand lenses.

    To be honest I would be happy with a D70. I only bought a D200 because I can't afford to replace a DSLR which dies, and because of how I use it. (I have dragged it through the snow, used it in the rain, on the beach, at +45degrees, at -20, and I have even scaled the side of a cliff with it on my back and I needed the durability. But really the picture quality isn't THAT much better.
     
  9. Peanuts

    Peanuts TPF Noob!

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    I vote all people who start into SLR photography should buy a used film camera with the run of the mill lens and a bulk load of slightly expired film. Relatively cheap and effective :) That was the method I was brought up on as well, and I am actually reverting back to film partially. I have acquired a used Canon 650 and dug out my old Pentax Spotmatic F - though it needs to go in for a cleaning.

    As the economy in areas of the world (as previously mentioned) are booming (that is debatable), consumerism has defintely risen, and the whole 'digital revolution' has produced many photography enthusiasts. Which is great! But as stated, is it truly necessary to buy the best? Probably not.

    (That probably didn't add any constructive discussion to this thread, but felt I had to post)
     
  10. LaFoto

    LaFoto Just Corinna in real life Staff Member Supporting Member

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    On more general terms, I can add that in his later years in life, my dad has always said that if something came up that needed to be bought (let's stick to the bike for the sports he does and my son now does), it would need to be "the best quality there is", and that it was more expensive in the end to start out with a cheap "on offer now" bike from a big departement store than an expert bike for ... yes, well, let's name it ... an expert... erm: extra big amount of money. A question of durability and reliability.

    And I kind of feel that back when I was still too little to understand, when he and his brother ran their little photography business on the side, he already felt the same about things, else I don't know where all the cameras came from that are now stored at my sister's.

    But - and here is the difference to what I feel is what you feel is "wrong" today, Panocho - my father and uncle only started buying their expensive cameras when they were well into the business, with money they had earned. So with my dad it was a learn - earn - buy - thing. When he got his newer, better, more expensive camera, he knew what it was for and how to put it to its best use.

    Same about the bikes - they are there AND THEY ARE GOOD (= expensive) for a reason. They have to endure quite a lot! But both my dad and son KNOW how to use their bikes, and (still) take some training with a coach (my son, my dad need no longer at 77, I think).
     
  11. fightheheathens

    fightheheathens TPF Noob!

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    hmmm.... i guess i can see both sides of this issue. I do get annoyed with the people who go out and buy a D200 with out knowing a thing about photography
    but then i look at myself and i tend to also buy good "equiptment"
    i was raised with the theory that you buy something good once instead of something of lesser quality several times. I recently bought a light backpacking tent. I have never been backpacking, but i want to get into it. As i see it, no matter what, for the rest of my life i will have a well built quality tent that i can use even if i only ever go car camping for the rest of my life (im 23 so hopefully i have some time left :)) my dad still has his backpacking tent that he bought 35 years ago. why should i invest in a cheap tent now thats more within my budgit and then buy another one again when i realize that my 10lbs tent is way to heavy or cheap to endure a 2 week long trip?
    i can see the same thing for a camera, pay a bunch now, but even if you dont really like photography in the end you still have a camera that is very good and will last you for the rest of your life. (i guess i dont know how long digitals will last but my dad has his nice pentax MX for 35 years....until i had it stolen from me :()


    erm...maybe that was just the tequila talking...
     
  12. panocho

    panocho TPF Noob!

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    I understand the idea of buying the best (or at lest something good) available on which both you fightheheathens and LaFoto comment different things. I understand it, but don't really agree with that of "if you're going to buy, buy something good"

    I think quality is more subjective (relative) than it seems. We are accustomed to objective approaches; you know, comparatives, analysis, reviews, on the internet and magazines, and thus tend to follow it, so that objectivity may easily apply and led us to buy the "quality" ones. But that is not really so. Quality depends very much on oneself. Garbz mentions a good example of someone for which the extra quality of a pro lens doesn't really exist, because (s)he is just incapable of "reaching" the so-called quality. The same goes for any other example. For instance, get a D200 instead of a D50 because it will last longer and resist better the use? Well, suppose that the buyer will never take the camera to tough conditions and will only use it for the holidays (as it often happens!!). Does the built quality of the D200 over the D50 apply here? No.

    I guess you get my point. Quality is something a camera (or any other thing) offers for someone who requires it. And the requirement comes first! If newer cameras can shoot 8 fps over the 2 fps that older cameras did, it is because someone needed more fps, not because an objective quality simply made the upgrade natural.

    So what annoys me is that A LOT of people who just start (in photography or whatever) expend a lot of money in really expensive equipment to just go and point&shoot. Something like if it were the first time ever someone tries wine and asked a 50-euro bottle, when he couldn't tell the difference with a 3-euro one.

    Sorry if I sound rude, since I really don't mean to. But I live in a very touristic town, and constantly see great cameras completely wasted in the hands of mere tourists who have no idea at all of photography but just bought a D80 over a p&s because it was the quality one. It makes me mad!

    Now you understand why I usually recommend things like e-series lenses and the like. Because their quality is far above what a newbie could need and it would take someone many years of learning to reach a point where a nice e-series lens (very nice, indeed) just don't do the job anymore
     

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