Can someone convince me about the professionalism of photography?

[The_Traveler]

PS: This is, in my experience, a very tough forum to enter into. Particularly when asking a question which is essentially about the value of someone's title or how they think of themself. No one, no matter how inexperienced they may be nor how honest their question, is beneath contempt by the "established" members. Approach the forum as if you were back in junior high school and you have been deemed not one of the "cool guys" and you'll know what to expect.

Good luck.

Until your last paragraph, I pretty much agreed with you.
(that in bold really doesn't make a great deal of sense to me)

I would say it differently.
Anyone who comes here and expresses, as the OP did, semi-disdain for photographers and evinces a belief that all it takes is a smart camera to take great pictures is going to take a raft of crap from people who know how hard it really is and have spent lots of time working at it.
He said, effectively, 'you guys don't know crap, now convince me I'm wrong.'
No one, professional or dedicated amateur, wants their efforts to be denigrated - particularly in their own space.
If the OP was less quick to be negative about our skills that he knows nothing about, he would have had a much more gracious reception.

 

[soufiej]

Is there anyone else out there who relies on auto in certain situations? I like having the control manual settings allow me, but there are some times I think my camera is going to be "smarter" or faster than me, and I just really want to get the shot.

I remember a lot of kids in Little League baseball would try to use a heavier bat than they were able to control. They did it because their favorite player - who happened to be 10 to 20 years older and 75 to 100 pounds heavier than they were - used a heavy bat. No matter what, you couldn't really talk them out of using a heavy bat.

A lot of people buy expensive DSLR's and then seldom if ever get off "Auto" shooting mode. I often suggest to a newbie wanting to understand the rules of photography they begin by allowing the camera to make the "decisions" in automatic settings. Pay attention to what the camera does and try to learn why it does so. Keep notes. If you're paying attention and can put this with that, pretty soon, you'll likely get tired of the overall similarity between shots when using strictly auto. That's when it's time to move a bit away from pure auto and try to stretch your skills and comprehension of how your camera actually operates and how you can control the camera rather than it controlling you.

I do think it's a bit of a shame though when someone new to photography buys an expensive camera set up and immediately tries to shoot in "Manual" because they've been told that's how the "pro's" do it. Photography has a large technical component to achieving good results. I wouldn't sit someone down at a metal lathe without any prior experience or training and expect good results first time out - let alone that they might not injure themself. Photography is not quite that dangerous but it must be learned as a process of this before that.

 

[jake337]

Many thanks all for the positive feedbacks and clarifications, I am newly registered here in the forum and I have never discussed anything related to photography here or anywhere else.

I am just surprised from some replies that attacked my self instead of replying positively and explain things, I already said I have a little experience in photography, and my question may appear to be not logic to some people, I also said the I know there are a lot of replies to my question those replies I didn't know till I get the answer from the wise people who discussed the question positively instead of criticizing and humiliating.

Someone says this topic is weird!! What could possible be my aim from asking this question, another one hey you don't understand ABS, I am sure that the owners of these replies don't understand neither photography nor ABS, these replies is not a mentality of someone who understands anything.

On the other hand the majority of the replies were really good and supportive.

Thanks to all of you for clarifications and reasonable replies.

Another question, I got camera with a 18-55 mm f3.5:5.6, actually the zoom it too small, 3x only due to its short focal length, what are the good lenses I may need? I believe 70-300 mm, and I also like the macro photos.

I understand photography and ABS.

Do you really think your ABS system is reading and understanding the road?

No, it just stops your brakes from locking up.

It is quite annoying when my car does something I'm not directly making it do.

Just like it's annoying when my camera would do the same in auto.

Which is funny because my camera body has no auto or picture settings.

It only has M, A, S and P just like every other professional camera body.

Is there anyone else out there who relies on auto in certain situations? I like having the control manual settings allow me, but there are some times I think my camera is going to be "smarter" or faster than me, and I just really want to get the shot.

What fun would that be? You wouldn't be getting the shot. The camera would. I have nothing against auto modes and I could care less if someone else uses them.

Also, this has nothing to do with which is smarter, me or the camera.

It has everything to do with me creating the image, not the camera

 

[soufiej]

[QUOTE="The_Traveler, post: 3445412, member: 12413

Until your last paragraph, I pretty much agreed with you.
(that in bold really doesn't make a great deal of sense to me)

I would say it differently.
Anyone who comes here and expresses, as the OP did, semi-disdain for photographers and evinces a belief that all it takes is a smart camera to take great pictures is going to take a raft of crap from people who know how hard it really is and have spent lots of time working at it.
He said, effectively, 'you guys don't know crap, now convince me I'm wrong.'
No one, professional or dedicated amateur, wants their efforts to be denigrated - particularly in their own space.
If the OP was less quick to be negative about our skills that he knows nothing about, he would have had a much more gracious reception.[/QUOTE]

Well, Traveler, since you wish to make this an issue, I have to disagree. As someone who was definitely not warmly welcomed to this forum and subsequently told I "got off on the wrong foot" with several members, I understand the op's question of why did so many jump his S**t.

Reading your response here I almost see someone itching for a fight. I don't think that's you, you and I seem to have gone along rather well. But look at the op's avatar, he claims to be a "noob". He's is not, IMO, "denigrating" what a skilled and talented photographer does or how long and hard they might work at their craft. He is, IMO, asking a honest and sincere question about a subject which escapes his comprehension at this time. He certainly is not berating anyone personally. He simply does not understand and is asking to be educated.

I remember one forum member who asked for critiques of her shots when everything, by her own admission, was taken in full "Auto" mode. She stated quite plainly she was content with that shooting mode and given her results saw no reason to adjust to someone else's opinion of what she should do and how she should be doing it. There really was no criticism of the technical merits of her shots. For what they were, there wasn't much to criticize. No, she wasn't stretching herself at all but the images on their own would have stood up against many taken by more skilled and knowledgeable shooters in some manual mode.

The folks on this forum, IMO, are too thin skinned and too ready to find an insult where none exists nor intended. And, really, what difference does it make to any of you whether someone thinks what you do is easy and the camera does most of the work? IMO if you are a real pro, you don't take offense at that. IMO you both would be better off if you instead took them by the hand and gently explained why you do what you do and why the camera can't. Educate not humiliate. That's why the question was asked in almost any instance on this forum.

The forum would be a lot better for it if people weren't so eager to see their results "denigrated". You can pretty much bet the op hasn't even looked at your gallery. So, how could he possibly be looking down on anyone? Looking at it from the outside, it almost makes one wonder just how secure you all can be with how much difference you really achieve over just a decent camera set to Auto.

 

[Vtec44]

Too much Internet typing and not enough photos.

 

[The_Traveler]

Sorry, as Vtec said, too many words.
I get it, we're nasty.
Less typing, more pictures.
That's what counts.

 

[timor]

This discussion goes nowhere. Photography is about photographs. Business one can make from anything. As long as there are buyers. This one thing I can assure you, guys: we all are buyers. Of mythology.
Vtek is right: if you want to shoot, shoot. Don't talk. (Tuco)

 

[sashbar]

My question is:
What is the professional photographer can do more than an amateur one?

Thanks

The answer to this question is very simple. The professional photographer can sell his photos and make a living photographing things or people. In other words, a professional can run a business side of photorgaphy better than an amateur who simply does not need to worry about it. That is the ONLY thing a professional photographer can do more than an amateur.

...and since you have compared cameras with cars and their ABS systems, that "feels the roadbetter than any driver", you need to understand that "ABS" is not what makes a good photo, it is just what gives you an opportunity to make a good photo.

If you are into cars and want some parallels, consider this:

If a car is a camera, then all its gears and pedals etc are just like camera buttons. You need to learn it to be able to start the engine and make the car moving
.
But you will not be able to drive anywhere even with the greatest ABS on earth, if you do not know the Highway code, road signs and basic rules of driving. If you do not know it, you will be sitting in your car in you garage or making rounds in the field behind your house, marvelling at all those buttons and ABS and driving nowhere.

Highway code, road signs and all that are an equivalent of basic photography rules like exposure, composition, contrast, visual weight, perspective, lines, proportions, spaces, angles, dynamic tension, focal point and all those formal aspects that help make a great photo.

Is knowing all that enough to become a good photographer? Have you earned your licence to shoot? Absolutely not. You need to actually start driving and aquire real driving skills . Which in photography language means basically aquiring practical skills, learning to use the light and making creative decisions that no ABS will make for you. Such as choosing the key tone in a scene you are about to photograph. How on earth a camera can make that decision for you if the dynamic range is too high for it to swallow? Probably you do not know yet what key tone means .

Anyway, after you will have learned all that and aquire all those skills, you will have a POTENTIAL. to become a great photographer.

Why just a potential?

Because here you will need to make by far the most difficult step. All that previous learning curve was easy peasy, just read, try, take some courses and practice, practice, not a problem. The next step is reeealy difficult and no photography course will teach you it.

Because even if you have learned how to drive your wonderfull new clever car and use its ABS and SatNav and know the Highway code and all what is needed, and you can safely drive down the streets around your block, skillfully overtake and park it in tightest of spaces, it all does not make any sense whatsoever, unless you KNOW WHERE YOU ARE GOING TO DRIVE , WHICH ROUTE AND WHY? You will become a great photographer only when you know what your journey is.

And that last paragraph is what separates a truly great photographer from a technically potent one. 99% of guys and girls with a camera,be it a P&S or the very top pro gear, will never ever figure out the destination and the path to it. This is a somewhat sad reality, but that is the nature of art and creativity.

Not many car lovers buy cars just to aimlessly drive around, taking random corners and play with it, having fun and showing off how good a driver they are. Most buy it with some particular destinations to drive to. Unlike cars, a lot of camera lovers buy expensive camears not having a clue what is their creative destination, neve mind the path to it.

As I said, that is normal, although a bit harsh.