Canon 400D

[wiltshireflyer]

Hi everyone.

I am wondering if anyone can streer me in the right direction here. I run, as a sideline, a licensed private investigation service. I undertake quite a lot of covert photography and have bought a new Canon 400D.

I would like to know some optimum settings, which I know will be a bit hit and miss, because the light will vary on every shot, but I want to at least have a starting point. I usually have a photgrapher do this for me, so Im struggling a little with clear crisp shots at present.

My main photos will be of subjects usually within 30 - 40 feet of my camera, usually in the street or outside somewhere. These targets will usually be moving (ie) walking pace etc

I need to take pictures, without flash of said moving person sometimes in twilight and more often than not during daylight hours. What F numbers should I be using and ISO? I have tried on one subject but end up with a blurred image, so obviously my settings arent quite ball park.

I normally use a 70-210ef lense for this purpose.

Any ideas?

 

[darich]

To capture images in low light you need a higher ISO. I'm not sure what the max rating for the 400D is - possibly 3200 if you can extend the range using a custom function.
A fast lens is also necessary - something like a 70-200 f2.8.

someone, probably on here once said that a noisy sharp image is better than a quiet blurred one. Never a truer word was said.

I'd be inclined to have the ISO high or even at maximum all the time so you don't need to worry about it for every shot. a fast lens will help capture images in low light too.

 

[Sw1tchFX]

I understand why you bought the rebel. It's cheap, it's small, it's easy to conceal. But not the lens you're going to need to put on it. like what darich said, 70-200 f/2.8. Better yet would be 2 bodies, one with an 85 prime and a 180mm prime. the lower the f/ number the better becuase it lets in more light. High ISO's are key becuase it increases the sensitivity of the sensor. and that will help in low light. also, if it's at dusk or dawn, you might want to expose for the shadows instead of highlights so your subject doesn't look black. You'll figure this all out when you start fiddling around with the camera.

 

[darich]

I understand why you bought the rebel. It's cheap, it's small, it's easy to conceal. But not the lens you're going to need to put on it. like what darich said, 70-200 f/2.8. Better yet would be 2 bodies, one with an 85 prime and a 180mm prime. the lower the f/ number the better becuase it lets in more light. High ISO's are key becuase it increases the sensitivity of the sensor. and that will help in low light. also, if it's at dusk or dawn, you might want to expose for the shadows instead of highlights so your subject doesn't look black. You'll figure this all out when you start fiddling around with the camera.

Considering the use of the camera and lens will be for private investigations and therefore secretive , i think a zoom lens is a far more practical idea.
I agree primes are faster but a 70-200 f2.8 L is among the best lenses Canon makes and having a zoom function is something i'd consider vital when shooting a subject whose distance to the camera can vary. The zoom is what keeps the photographer distant and unseen. A fixed length lens may mean having to move closer (or further) from your subject to get the shot required.

 

[wiltshireflyer]

Hi and thanks for the info.

Concealment of the camera is not an issue, as most pictures are shot from a stationary car, through glass. Is my ordinary canon zoom lense EF 75-300 1:4-5.6 II (as listed on the lense) not good enough for this type of work?

 

[DeepSpring]

If you are shooting in sunny conditions that should be fine but as it gets darker the aperture

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of 4-5.6 (the numbers go up as you zoom) might not be fast enough. That is why a 2.8 zoom has been recommended

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[Stevedevil]

I think that the point is being missed, The set up can be the lower end of f stop, as he is not trying to win a competition on the photo, exposure, sharpness, etc, the main aim is to get some evidence.

All I will add is that if you adjust your photo from the Camera's original then you will not be able to use this in court, as any adjustments can NOT be made, It really depends on what your gonna shoot, If its for someone who needs to see their Husband / Wife with someone else then you can adjust ISO to suit a faster shutter speed at Higher F stop, as with any noise you will still see a good image, but not a great one

If you need to shoot a car at high speed at midnight and get the licence plate then yes get some lenses that are around f 1.4

Its all about what YOU need for your application

 

[Stevedevil]

You mention that the 300mm lense is not any good, but if your setting the higher end f stop ( 4 - 5.6 ) then yes it may need a slower shutter speed, or higher ISO

But adjust the camera f stop to arounf f22 and I feel that you may a higher shutter speed at lower ISO

 

[Stevedevil]

At night with no flash you will need some light, or mount a tripod in the car, as Stability will be needed as to take longer shutter speeds, or as you say use some high ISO values ( 3200 )

 

[sothoth]

Hi and thanks for the info.

Concealment of the camera is not an issue, as most pictures are shot from a stationary car, through glass. Is my ordinary canon zoom lense EF 75-300 1:4-5.6 II (as listed on the lense) not good enough for this type of work?

Hmm, what part of the world do you live in? What kind of car do you drive? I'd like to keep a lookout for you if I'm doing something I'm not supposed to.

 

[PhotoHeather]

If you ever do get out of the car the 70-200 2.8 is going to STAND OUT! It is mostly white and quite large. You WILL attract attention.

http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelDetailAct&fcategoryid=150&modelid=7469

 

[darich]

If you ever do get out of the car the 70-200 2.8 is going to STAND OUT! It is mostly white and quite large. You WILL attract attention.

http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelDetailAct&fcategoryid=150&modelid=7469

Very true when looking side on.

But when the camera is aiming at the subject i'd suspect that the white lens would only be very slightly more obtrusive or visible than a black one. Especially if the body of the camera is black too

 

[darich]

I think that the point is being missed, The set up can be the lower end of f stop, as he is not trying to win a competition on the photo, exposure, sharpness, etc, the main aim is to get some evidence.

All I will add is that if you adjust your photo from the Camera's original then you will not be able to use this in court, as any adjustments can NOT be made, It really depends on what your gonna shoot, If its for someone who needs to see their Husband / Wife with someone else then you can adjust ISO to suit a faster shutter speed at Higher F stop, as with any noise you will still see a good image, but not a great one

If you need to shoot a car at high speed at midnight and get the licence plate then yes get some lenses that are around f 1.4

Its all about what YOU need for your application

like you said - the aim is not to win a competition with exposure, sharpness etc so i a noisy sharp image will be inifinitely more useful and helpful than a blurred one with lower ISO.

I'd also point out that my 20D had amazing low noise at 1600 and 3200 so i'd expect the 400D to be the same. The noise will have no major detrimental effect on the image - definitely not to the point where a face is not recognisable.

as for shooting a car plate at midnight - high iso in a built up area will be fine on a 2.8 lens. but if it's a rural area with no light other than moonlight i'm not sure even a 1.4 would be enough.

 

[Alex_B]

You mention that the 300mm lense is not any good, but if your setting the higher end f stop ( 4 - 5.6 ) then yes it may need a slower shutter speed, or higher ISO

But adjust the camera f stop to arounf f22 and I feel that you may a higher shutter speed at lower ISO

errm, amybe i am misreading, but this seems to oppose generally accepted knowledge here:

f/22 (very small aperture) -> longer exposure time ("shutter speed") and/or higher ISO are required

f/4 or f/5.6 (much wider aperture) -> shorter exposure time and or lower ISO are required

Therefore:
f/2.8 or less are better at low light to achieve shorter exposure times at lower ISO.

 

[table1349]

All I will add is that if you adjust your photo from the Camera's original then you will not be able to use this in court, as any adjustments can NOT be made, It really depends on what your gonna shoot, If its for someone who needs to see their Husband / Wife with someone else then you can adjust ISO to suit a faster shutter speed at Higher F stop, as with any noise you will still see a good image, but not a great one

As a 25 year member of law enforcement currently assigned to a specialized unit that does covert surveillance, I have to take issue with what you said above. There is absolutely nothing wrong with color, contrast, saturation adjustments made in photographs used as evidence in court. Adjustments are acceptable. Alterations are not. Anyone with any darkroom time knows that the same kind of adjustments are made when printing photos from negatives. Standard practice, even in police labs. The addition, removal or aleration of something(s) in the photograph however is an entirely different matter and is not acceptable.

When we are shooting surveillance photos we typically use prime lenses. Big, Fast, prime lenses. I would love to be able to bring home the 400mm f2.8 to play with on my own Canon gear. Also multiple bodies are almost a must. A couple of different camera bodies with two different lenses as suggested above is very handy.

Another thing that is quite handy is the Gen IV night vision we have that is camera adaptable. Great for those night time surveillances. Since Gen IV is not available to the public I would suggest that you look into Gen III equipment. It is expensive, but Gen III is good enough for identification purposes.