Carreer in photography?

wintertest46 · Jul 25, 2007

Hey, 1st thread here.

Im intrested in a carreer with photography. i have been shooting off and on for the last few years. beyond the basics i dont know much. however i have been told i have a good eye for it. im 25 and have been to college but EXTREMELY dislike the profession i chose. the only up side to it is that its REALLY good money, but it is hard work.
i found there is a tech school close to home that offers a 2 year degree in digital photography/image processing. i know photography isnt something that can be tought, i know there is ALOT of art involved.
so here is whare i stand. i like taking photos(mostly nature/landscape shots) and i love to be outdoors. if i could make a living doing this i would be a happy camper. so my question is how imparative is it that schooling is necessary? have any of you gone to school for it? and if so whare did you start off in the industry?
i dont know anything about the industry but i imagine its a hard one. being that every industry with art involved is hard to make a decent living.

so any info you can give will help.

thanks!

Alpha · Jul 25, 2007

The short answer is that you'll find it is very very difficult to make a good living as a professional photographer unless you do commercial or fashion work. If you're interested in either of those, find someone who does them very very well and apprentice/assist. Don't hold your breath on making a living as a "fine art" photographer. If you want the long answer, I'm sure I can dig up the thread where I posted it.

skieur · Jul 25, 2007

wintertest46 said:
Hey, 1st thread here.

Im intrested in a carreer with photography. i have been shooting off and on for the last few years. beyond the basics i dont know much. however i have been told i have a good eye for it. im 25 and have been to college but EXTREMELY dislike the profession i chose. the only up side to it is that its REALLY good money, but it is hard work.
i found there is a tech school close to home that offers a 2 year degree in digital photography/image processing. i know photography isnt something that can be tought, i know there is ALOT of art involved.
so here is whare i stand. i like taking photos(mostly nature/landscape shots) and i love to be outdoors. if i could make a living doing this i would be a happy camper. so my question is how imparative is it that schooling is necessary? have any of you gone to school for it? and if so whare did you start off in the industry?
i dont know anything about the industry but i imagine its a hard one. being that every industry with art involved is hard to make a decent living.

so any info you can give will help.

thanks!

OK, I am going to sound brutal here, but I do not want to give you any false hopes. Please excuse my very direct comments. Saying some things gently is difficult. There are two levels of photographers: the photographic technicians who know how to use cameras but display minimal creativity, business and marketing skills etc.Their literacy and communication level displays spelling and grammar mistakes such as I have noticed in your posting. This is a problem if you are communicating with CEOs, communication directors, or television station managers.

They tend to sell their work at the customer or lower business level and average yearly salaries of $30,000 to $45,000 depending on location and other variables.

At the other level are well-educated photographers who have good business skills and/or a course background in that area as well as a university degree, excellent communication and marketing skills and background. They run a diversified business that may include video production, photojournalism, public relations photography, producing and giving business presentations and workshops, wedding and portrait photography, and work for publications from scenics to educational textbooks. They also have computer skills in both graphics and animation. Some may have a job on the edge of media and do a lot of freelance work as well. They make $65,000 to over $100,000 and some make far beyond that.

Of course other factors such as resistance to changes in photographic technology and techniques, or whether you are on the cutting edge or behind the times also influences the degree of success in this field as well.

So, yes, a career in photography is possible, but getting to the top category or level is a considerable challenge that requires education as well as skills and talent.

skieur

wintertest46 · Jul 25, 2007

i know its a long way to the top if ya wanna rock and roll, and i appreciate the straight up answer. its pretty much what i was expecting, but your reply definatly put things into a *better perspective. i guess i never really thought all those things would come into play. but now that i think about it, it makes sense. my spelling and grammer is horse s*%$ and my communication skills are even worse. and my knowledge on photography is minimal as well. i shoot with a sony r1, and out of the hundreds of shots ive taken, i have found half a dozen print worthy. sad thing is i used to shoot on a 82 nikon f4, and i had a better print ratio shooting with B&W than i do with my sony. so lesson learned there.
and as far as school goes unfortunatly im not book/educationally smart, so i rely on my gut and creativity to get me through the day.
i just knew nothing about the industry, so thats why i posted. my post has only been up a few mins and i have 2 good replys so thats good news. but im still intrested to hear what everyone has to say, so ya all please keep em comin if ya got the time(including skieur and truffle shuffle)

its good to be critiqued(sp), as soon as i get back home in a couple weeks ill post some of my best shots, and ill expect nothing but a burtal and honest answer!

JIP · Jul 25, 2007

Well I think a course, especially a 2 year program, is a good start. With this you will be exposed to alot of things you might not see being self-taught and on a budget. I think a good knowledge of things like Photoshop is imperative. You are wanting to get into an extremely competitive field Outdoor/nature photography but you can do it if you push things right. I think it has been mentioned here that a good knowledge of how to market yourself and a keen business sense are very important and with this I agree strongly. You need to hustle get your work out there and make people see it. Do not go into this expecting to come across an ad in the paper one day reading "wanted: 9-5 nature photographer for big magazine good bennies and great pay" you will be sorely dissapointed this does not happen. shoot shoot shoot all you can submit your pics to magazines where do you live? you might find places you can sell your work do you live near a good natural area with alot of tourists you can sell your images to them. Just remember this in this business noone will hand you anything you need to kick doors in and let people know who you are otherwise just keep shooting for yourself.

usayit · Jul 25, 2007

The handful of those I have met make a living with photography does so as in addition to some other specialty or skill. For example...

A journalist who writes but illustrates with photos
A graphic artist that uses photos as part of their work
A catalog designer using product photos in their layout

etc..

A wedding photographer is the closest to pure photography but people don't realize that they are really business men with a camera.

I have no experience in making a living from photography but it seems the best way for you to get into outdoorish photography would be through a journalism field of study.

three_eyed_otter · Jul 25, 2007

I have a friend who was a waitress for many years and decided she wanted to make a living do photography. She worked w/an established typical photographer (e.g., weddings, family portraits) for about 2 yrs. while continuing to wait tables at night. Slowly, she gained confidence/business knowledge and started bldg. her own network of clients--if you do good work for a competitive rate friends will tell friends. She now does photography full time but I couldn't give you a clue as to her income. The upside is she has a chosen career.

have a good one
3Eo

Chronicle · Jul 25, 2007

I agree with everyone.

gizmo2071 · Jul 26, 2007

Gotta agree with everyone else.
Something that caught my eye in your post was:
"the only up side to it is that its REALLY good money, but it is hard work."

Well to be honest, photography as a job is probably even harder, longer hours and at the end of the day you probably won't be earning as much as other professions.

While I was at college, we were taught by professional photographers.
The one is considered one of the best product photographers in my city.
Yet he was having to do teaching for extra money because his business was struggling.

I'm lucky in the fact the my fiancé earns good money doing what she loves and she wants me to be happy with what I do for a career.
So I know what my route for the future is and I know I can make money from my work. I will still work my ass of, because that's the sort of person I am.

If your looking for an easy ride, then maybe look somewhere else.

IrishCameraGirl · Jul 26, 2007

Maybe your best bet is to try out an apprenticeship and decide if that's really what you want to do as a career. You'll get to see the ins and outs of the business side of it instead of just the "taking pictures" part. Photography is demanding and tiring, and unfortunately, it's not always fun...but you CAN have fun with it. If you decide it IS something you'd like to do, continue with your apprenticeship and maybe take a few classes (at least). I've never asked for credentials from a photographer, so I don't think school to actually get gigs is a must, but you definitely have to have some business sense and be a good business person before you can succeed on your own.

jstuedle · Jul 26, 2007

Most good to great photographers are bad business people. A fair photographer with good business and communication skills will almost always make more money than the former. I really believe to survive today in this field, major in business administration and minor in photography.

Hertz van Rental · Jul 26, 2007

jstuedle said:
Most good to great photographers are bad business people. A fair photographer with good business and communication skills will almost always make more money than the former.

Not always true. If you sign up with a Photographer's Agent he'll get you the work - and a good accountant will take care of the financial side.
That's how most of the top photographers work

PhotoSlip · Jul 26, 2007

I do not do photography professionally. However, I have also recently changed careers and am now self employed and working at a managerial level.

My advice/opinions are as follows:

Intern/Assist first. Learn about what you're getting into and see if it's what you really want to do. As an intern/assistant, you may be able to retain your current job while exploring your options. Do not intern for only a short period of time. This does not give you the chance to experience everything about the career and you may leave with a inaccurate opinion. With your current job, I believe you're not in a rush to change. Though, if you were not making enough, I would probably only advise to be paid as an assistant if you could.

Do whatever work you are given during this time even if it's not enjoyable and do it well. Learning to be a great assistant makes you an even better boss.

Learn everything you can from your mentor/boss. Whether he delivers respectable work or not, learn everything he is doing. Analyze what he is doing right and what he is doing wrong. Second guess your analysis. You will find you drew the wrong conclusion sometimes. Learning from your mentor/boss is your main salary. You will only be paid peanuts for a short period of time, but you will gain it back when you work for yourself many times over if you learn what you need to. You may have to ask a lot of questions to get all this information. Never sit back and expect an explanation later.

If you find that you want to become a photographer professionally, I say, do the course. Not only will the course teach you photography, but I'm sure they will give you some insight in to becoming a photographer as a profession. If not, you can approach any of the professors for advice. Make sure you ask your professors everything you can. They are part of the school fee and not approaching them is like missing 1/3 of the course you paid for.

Always learn accounting for yourself and understand the financial side of your business. Your business is always you first. Invest in yourself by educating yourself. Whether you delegate your accounting to another is irrelevant. You need to understand the foundations of what he's reporting back to you, not just the last line on a balance sheet.

Definitely learn to market yourself and your products. You sell any product more profitably and in higher quantity by marketing the product and yourself better than others.

Best of luck with your venture.

Jon, The Elder · Jul 26, 2007

Wintertest.....you don't mention where you are located in your profile, a little more details helps.

You have some very lofty ideas about making a living at this thing called photography. Start thinking that it is a craft where you produce a product. Essentially, you will be in the manufacturing business.
There are well known and critical skills that have to be fulfilled to be successful in creating, marketing and selling your product.

I spent years as an industrial photographer. An area by the way, that still can provide a decent living.

Consider the fact that anyone with 10-15 grand can buy gear, get a website and Viola...instant photographer. And, they are doing it everyday.

Very, very few can make a decent living at it. Why?
Lack of good business sense is probably the main cause for failure. Followed by the realization they aren't as good consistantly as their friends and relatives told them. Then we have those that just can't or won't make the personal sacrifices this craft demands.

I use the 80% business and 20% photography ratio when I discuss this subject. It may vary a bit, but not much.

If you are satisfied with weddings at a marginal profit, thats fine. If you want to sell Landscape or 'fine art' look into the market and where you are located. Is there money in it?

My customers give me compliments all the time, but they also BUY, and that is what counts at the bank.

skieur · Jul 26, 2007

I should also indicate that education is necessary to be successful in photography in the higher levels. That does not necessarily mean courses in photography but spelling and grammar mistakes in your advertising and promotional materials for example would not inspire confidence from well-educated clients. Neither would limited literacy and communication skills. Associated with education is a certain level of social behaviour which is defined vaguely as "class", and functionally useful for a photographer to exhibit in some environments and when working with well-respected celebrities or business executives.

skieur