Classic example of the problem of pro photography today

goodguy · May 7, 2017

A guy contacts me on facebook asking me about Nikon D3300 if its a good beginners camera and if its good enough to shoot weddings.
I ask the guy what are most essential things to shoot a wedding, he was right with few things but he didn't mention experience (even thought eventually got what I was waiting to hear).
He doesn't even know the basic.
Nice guy don't get me wrong but he represented for me what is wrong today with modern photography.
Every Tom, Dick and Harry feels he or she are ready to shoot weddings because they got a t3 or D3300 or even a 5D IV for their birthday.
They will work nearly for free just to get clients and get experience and the poor saps that know about photography about same as these so called photographers will pay little and feel they got a good deal and get crappy results of their one very special day in their life.
I get people asking me for quotes for weddings and other events and my prices are really not high and I get the same reply "its expensive".
No professional can compete with 20$ an hour, its ridiculous and infuriating.
I shot years as an amateur getting slowly better and more serious and when I decided I want to get even more serious I volunteers working for free for well over 6 months doing lots of weddings and other events as second or main shooter under the supervision of a very good mentor.

If I buy a set of Japanese or German chef knife set does that mean I am ready to be hired as a chef in a high end restaurant ?

Vtec44 · May 7, 2017

This is how I see it...

Clients all have different budget and expectations. Some people feel that a few snap shots of their wedding would be good enough, others expect every single little details and artistic capture. There will always be starting photographers who will do it for cheap and produce photographs that may not be up to par compare to others. There will always be clients for different price range. As long as they set the right expectations and their clients are happy, hey I say go for it. I compete with photographers in my area who are a 3rd cheaper than me but I book solidly every year in the past 3 years. Clients come to me because I can do what others can't in my area, at least not at their price range. I always deliver what I promised. I won't be able to book everything and there will always be clients who think I'm excessively expensive. That's totally okay with me. If they don't see the value in what I do, it's not the other photographers. It's because I failed to convince potential clients that I'm worth it.

KmH · May 7, 2017

Vtec44 said:
It's because I failed to convince potential clients that I'm worth it. (emphasis added)

A B S O L U T E L Y. ! ! ! ! !
A successful photography business relies on the photographer having business and S A L E S skills.
Ideally, about 1/3 of your customers should think you are over priced.

table1349 · May 7, 2017

goodguy said:
A guy contacts me on facebook asking me about Nikon D3300 if its a good beginners camera and if its good enough to shoot weddings.
I ask the guy what are most essential things to shoot a wedding, he was right with few things but he didn't mention experience (even thought eventually got what I was waiting to hear).
He doesn't even know the basic.
Nice guy don't get me wrong but he represented for me what is wrong today with modern photography.
Every Tom, Dick and Harry feels he or she are ready to shoot weddings because they got a t3 or D3300 or even a 5D IV for their birthday.
They will work nearly for free just to get clients and get experience and the poor saps that know about photography about same as these so called photographers will pay little and feel they got a good deal and get crappy results of their one very special day in their life.
I get people asking me for quotes for weddings and other events and my prices are really not high and I get the same reply "its expensive".
No professional can compete with 20$ an hour, its ridiculous and infuriating.
I shot years as an amateur getting slowly better and more serious and when I decided I want to get even more serious I volunteers working for free for well over 6 months doing lots of weddings and other events as second or main shooter under the supervision of a very good mentor.

If I buy a set of Japanese or German chef knife set does that mean I am ready to be hired as a chef in a high end restaurant ?

Welcome to the 20th century. It got easy, and cheap so every Tom, Dick & Harry is now a photographer.

Pixilox · May 7, 2017

The OP's story reminds me of when my son was little and I was still shooting film. We had gone to the park and I brought my camera (Minolta X-700) to take some pictures of my son playing. A woman came up to me and asked how much I charged. I said 'for what?'. Well, she had just gotten a Rebel and proclaimed herself to be a 'professional photographer' and wanted to know how much to charge. I asked her how much experience she had and she said (I never forgot this) "I don't need any, since the camera is digital it does everything. All I have to do is aim and shoot!". I just smh and walked away.

I think around the same time is when the 'I have a digital camera, I am a professional now' phenomenon started and sadly by the OP's story it must still be alive and well.

goodguy · May 8, 2017

All I can say is thank god I have my day job because if I had to pay bills with what I get from my events I'd be starving, market is saturated with people offering to shoot events, I look at their portfolio pics and many just not impressive but clients care mostly of price and not quality and I will not go so low that it will hardly cover my gas expenses.

AlanKlein · May 8, 2017

Try passing your business cards out with managers at the more expensive catering halls and upscale wedding dress stores. Also try tuxedo stores. Contact upscale hairdressers and get to know them so you can exchange contacts for each other. Make those offers to the other I mentioned earlier. You help them they help you.

beagle100 · May 10, 2017

goodguy said:
A guy contacts me on facebook asking me about Nikon D3300 if its a good beginners camera and if its good enough to shoot weddings.
I ask the guy what are most essential things to shoot a wedding, he was right with few things but he didn't mention experience (even thought eventually got what I was waiting to hear).
He doesn't even know the basic.
Nice guy don't get me wrong but he represented for me what is wrong today with modern photography.
Every Tom, Dick and Harry feels he or she are ready to shoot weddings because they got a t3 or D3300 or even a 5D IV for their birthday.
They will work nearly for free just to get clients and get experience and the poor saps that know about photography about same as these so called photographers will pay little and feel they got a good deal and get crappy results of their one very special day in their life.
I get people asking me for quotes for weddings and other events and my prices are really not high and I get the same reply "its expensive".
No professional can compete with 20$ an hour, its ridiculous and infuriating.
I shot years as an amateur getting slowly better and more serious and when I decided I want to get even more serious I volunteers working for free for well over 6 months doing lots of weddings and other events as second or main shooter under the supervision of a very good mentor.
If I buy a set of Japanese or German chef knife set does that mean I am ready to be hired as a chef in a high end restaurant ?

yes, it's crazy, hourly wages and every 'Tom Dick and Harry' gets a Canon 5D4 and does weddings
what's the difference between professional photographers compared to say, dentists and engineers .... ?
www.flickr.com/photos/mmirrorless

chuasam · May 11, 2017

a D3300 is good enough to shoot a wedding if the photographer behind it is competent. A D810 isn't good enough if the photographer behind it is clueless.

astroNikon · May 11, 2017

Many people moving from a cell phone/small sensor camera get away with sloppiness in relation to aperture, shutter speed, ISO control as they use auto settings. Of course even in low light they have bad images.

But in Social Media "pictures" of people are positively revered because everyone knows everyone.

I've seen hideous photos that are splattered with words of "beautiful" "gorgeous" etc etc when in fact I'm sure 10 of 10 of us would BIN those pics as those would be the ones where we accidentally hit the shutter release as we were lowering the camera.

So they step out of that "box of social media happiness" with no real expectations and step into the world of real expectations and don't know it.

When they get to a DSLR all of those are more critical in a larger sensor camera.
And they screw everything up. You can't do anything about those people, but just mention it in passing when you're trying to sell your services.

But in business it's never good to compete to the low end.
Always strive to compete on the mid or high tier customers. Because that's where the money is at. If you think your skills deserve the higher fees then push yourself up to that level and try to find clientele in that level that care about quality. You'll have to learn to sell your skill set better.

Don't forget, you started with a D3300 too (and still have it?) just that you've "been there/ done that". So put the Low Pay stuff in the "been there / done that" category too.

Solarflare · May 13, 2017

chuasam said:
a D3300 is good enough to shoot a wedding if the photographer behind it is competent. A D810 isn't good enough if the photographer behind it is clueless.

A competent photographer can get a great shot with an iPhone or even inferior hardware ... needs to be the right kind of shot though.

I doubt any photographer would be very happy with the D3300 in typical situations during weddings - i.e. very poor lighting and no flash allowed. Theres a reason these professional photographers typically use bright zooms or even brighter prime lenses, and very high ISO capable cameras.

Derrel · May 13, 2017

I think the D3300 is being under-sold here...for over two decades, MOST weddings were photographed with Kodak VPS color negative film...an ISO 160 film that was typically down-rated to ISO 100. After the late 1970's arrived, 400-speed color negative film was invented, and was pretty good. The D3300 is BETTER at ISO 1,250 than 400-speed color negative was.

Nikon makes plenty of good, fast-aperture,moderately-priced lenses like the 28mm f/1.8, 35mm f/1.8, 50/1.8, and 85/1.8, all of which are modern, sharp, well-corrected lenses capable of high-quality results.

I really, really do NOT see a D3300 as being an inferior camera; it is in fact, a better picture-maker than the decades' worth of "pro cameras" from Hasselblad, Rollei,Bronica,Mamiya, and others, which were used to successfully shoot millions of weddings every year.

High ISO capable camera is a relative term! I grew up with good color film being ISO 64 or 100, and 200 being fast color film, and 400-speed color film being only marginally acceptable...the D3300 is so,so,soooo good on technical image quality compared to even $8000 d-slr cameras from the early to mid-2000's era...

I'm with chuasm when he wrote, "a D3300 is good enough to shoot a wedding if the photographer behind it is competent. A D810 isn't good enough if the photographer behind it is clueless".

And as for "second card slot"...I really,really disagree that that is a necessary requisite for pro work...pro cameras never had more than one card slot....pro film cameras will NEVER, EVER be able to shoot more than one, single roll of film at a time.

But back to the OP: people no lkinger "value photography" the way they did prior to smart phone cameras and low-cost digital cameras. Pictures are not used or valued the way they were in earlier years. There are now tens of millions of "All photos on CD for $50" shooters. Sign of the times. The dead-easy money is long gone. SEE POST #4 ABOVE!!!!

chuasam · May 13, 2017

I shot my first wedding with a D70s. It's a toy by today's standards. I had a backup F100 with film should the digital camera have failed

Derrel · May 13, 2017

I shot my first two weddings with a Cosmorex SE... Cosmorex SE (Zenit EM) - Matt's Classic Cameras

The D70s was a Modern Miracle by comparison with the Cosmorex, which had a rubberized cloth focal plane shutter, with only a few shutter speeds: those of 1/30,1/60,1/125, 1/250, and 1/500 second. It had a NON-coupled selenium cell light meter! KNOB film rewind! ASA Speeds of 25,50,100,200,400,and the top ASA speed was 500!

Cosmorex SE (Zenit EM) - Matt's Classic Cameras

I find it amusing that today's younger shooters think something like a Nikon D70s is "a toy"...it's an INCREDIBLE picture-making machine: a camera with instant development of photos, in-camera, direct to the capture medium! The ability to spot a screw-up within one second!