Color Management and Workspace Questions

[smoke665]

Okay, despite being a firm beliver in the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" rule, I had to tweak my monitor calibration. Ever since I've had an ongoing problem with photos rendering correctly when uploaded to social media sites, as well as this forum. These were my settings. I was also working in 16 bits per channel





Colors would just not render correctly online, but prints came out great, not only on my inkjet, but the online lab I use. At the suggestion of someone on this forum I started looking at these settings. I tried leaving it on sRGB but dropping back to 8 bits. It was better but still not the same as what I was seeing on my monitor. When I made the following change to AdobeRGB1998, everything matched, but I haven't had the change to order more prints.



Am I incorrect in thinking that sRGB should work for online photos? And will leaving AdobeRGB1998 cause any problems when I upload to my online photo lab for prints? What am I missing???

 

[Ysarex]

sRGB is a device independent color space -- so is Adobe RGB. Neither are appropriate as monitor profiles. How have you calibrated your monitor? You should be using a calibration device like this: Amazon.com : X-Rite ColorMunki Smile (CMUNSML) : Computer Mice : Camera & Photo

A display calibrator will generate a device dependent profile for your monitor. That's what you should show listed for Monitor Profile:

Where did you get the printer profile that you have listed?

Your working space should be sRGB and your files that you post and send to be printed should be tagged sRGB.

Joe

 

[manaheim]

The problem is not so much the color spaces, as the fact that some browsers (*cough* IE *cough*) do NOT handle color spaces properly... or at all.

sRGB/8bit has widely been considered your safest option, as it's "close enough" even in IE. However, as I've recently noticed IE tends to over-accentuate the reds even in sRGB... though it's more noticeable on wide-gamut monitors, such as many IPS panel displays. (though very few people have those)

The way I work is I process in Adobe RGB or Prophoto... then convert to sRGB for anything I want to share on the web.

 

[smoke665]

Sorry the monitor profile got switched when I was doing the clips. I've been using a profile for both the monitor and the printer supplied by manufacturer. I'm confused as to why my prints match my monitor but not the online photos I upload after processing. Don't have any other problems with viewing Web sites or other people's photos. I've used paintshop (x8 currently) for several years and have been reluctant to switch, however there appears to be a known issues with Web photos. Currently reviewing the work around.

 

[manaheim]

Re-read what I said above.

 

[Ysarex]

Sorry the monitor profile got switched when I was doing the clips. I've been using a profile for both the monitor and the printer supplied by manufacturer.

You're working with an uncalibrated and unprofiled display. The display profile supplied by the manufacturer is a generic equivalent of zip.

I'm confused as to why my prints match my monitor but not the online photos I upload after processing.

Your prints match your monitor because you're lucky and not your uploaded photos because you're working with uncalibrated equipment.

Don't have any other problems with viewing Web sites or other people's photos.

How do you know?

I've used paintshop (x8 currently) for several years and have been reluctant to switch, however there appears to be a known issues with Web photos. Currently reviewing the work around.

I took an sRGB JPEG, uploaded it to Flickr and then opened that file in both Paint Shop Pro and Flickr (using FireFox as brower) -- the file displays the same in both.

Joe

 

[Watchful]

Each monitor needs to be calibrated for what it is, ie no 2 monitors made by the same company on the same day in the same production line are the same. They pass within a range and the range is fairly wide.
You can't just plug in someone else's profile to your monitor and expect it to be accurate. Even a manufacturer's profile will not be accurate on every monitor of that model number.
Buy a spider or x-rite (I use and like the X-Rite Color Monkey (CMUNDIS).

 

[Ysarex]

Sorry the monitor profile got switched when I was doing the clips. I've been using a profile for both the monitor and the printer supplied by manufacturer.

You're working with an uncalibrated and unprofiled display. The display profile supplied by the manufacturer is a generic equivalent of zip.

I'm confused as to why my prints match my monitor but not the online photos I upload after processing.

Your prints match your monitor because you're lucky and not your uploaded photos because you're working with uncalibrated equipment.

Don't have any other problems with viewing Web sites or other people's photos.

How do you know?

I've used paintshop (x8 currently) for several years and have been reluctant to switch, however there appears to be a known issues with Web photos. Currently reviewing the work around.

View attachment 120370

I took an sRGB JPEG, uploaded it to Flickr and then opened that file in both Paint Shop Pro and Flickr (using FireFox as brower) -- the file displays the same in both.

Joe

Here's the same file in Paint Shop and uploaded to Flickr with IE as the browser.

Joe

 

[smoke665]

Calibrating my monitor has been on my to do list but I just haven't gotten to it yet. Thanks for the recommendations on this.

However, the confusing part is that sRGB prints match my monitor fairly close when printed on my ink jet or when uploaded and printed by the photo lab. Anything uploaded direct to social media shows way off on all monitors including my own. If I convert to Adobe and upload. They match? If my monitor was off calibration would it not be off across the board on everything?

Psp8 documentation is saying that you have to work in sRGB at 16 bit or above for most editing functions to be availabl, but then goes on to say to decrease the color to 256 for web. Haven't had time yet to explore thier workaround.

 

[smoke665]

took an sRGB JPEG, uploaded it to Flickr and then opened that file in both Paint Shop Pro and Flickr (using FireFox as brower) -- the file displays the same in both

And they look pretty much the same on my monitor. Could the fact that you're uploading to photo sharing site, and then linking have any effect vs uploading directly to a site? Also, notice that you're using X7. I went from X6 (not experiencing problems) to X8, about 2 months ago. I also used their calibration wizard for the monitor, which has me wondering now? I need to go back to some jpegs that where saved using Pentax software and try uploading them as well.

 

[manaheim]

Either you're not listening or we're failing to communicate.

Honestly, all the answers are in this thread... in some great amount of detail... so I'm unsure where we're mis-stepping.

Your prints coming out the same as your monitor... is pure luck.

If you sent your images to a lab, generally they can (and will- though, depends on the lab) make minor corrections before they print... because they KNOW most of their customers are not color-calibrated.

As I said, work in higher color gamut, then knock down to sRGB/8 bit when saving for web.

 

[manaheim]

And calibrate your monitor with an external calibration device.

The ENTIRE conversation is moot until you take that step.

 

[Ysarex]

Calibrating my monitor has been on my to do list but I just haven't gotten to it yet. Thanks for the recommendations on this.

Get to it.

However, the confusing part is that sRGB prints match my monitor fairly close when printed on my ink jet or when uploaded and printed by the photo lab. Anything uploaded direct to social media shows way off on all monitors including my own.

Social media is a pretty big category. All kinds of possibilities there. Provide a link to one of your social media photos that's not displaying well and I'll check it out.

If I convert to Adobe and upload. They match? If my monitor was off calibration would it not be off across the board on everything?

It is.

Psp8 documentation is saying that you have to work in sRGB at 16 bit or above for most editing functions to be availabl, but then goes on to say to decrease the color to 256 for web. Haven't had time yet to explore thier workaround.

This is seriously wrong. PSP will let you set the working space (sRGB or Adobe RGB or other) and correctly color manage in that working space as well as convert between color spaces.

Bit depth is unrelated to color management, PSP works with 8 and 16 bit photos equally well. If you're editing a photo it is hopefully 16 bit and has to that point never been 8 bit. When you're finished editing a photo and want to save it for output as a JPEG you then convert to 8 bit and save.

The suggestion to sample down to indexed color at 256 colors for web is something we pretty much stopped doing around 1994 -- that's just bonkers.

Your photos that you put on social media should be sRGB. Your photos that you print and send out to print should be sRGB. Adobe RGB is inappropriate for your usage and you should avoid it.

Joe

 

[smoke665]

As I said, work in higher color gamut, then knock down to sRGB/8 bit when saving for web.

I'm listening to the calibration step, and fully intend to. The point we are losing communication on is that (thanks to your suggestion in an earlier post) I follow the same procedure to a point. I edit in sRGB/16 bit, but in order for it to render properly on the web, I can't simply change the image to sRGB/8 bit. I have to close my file, go in and change color working space to AdobeRGB1998, then reopen the file and save the image or upload. When I do that everything renders properly and matches not only my monitor but three other devices I use to check against. sRGB files that are printed either on my printer or by the lab (which does not do color correction unless you specify)While my monitor may not be calibrated properly it is pretty close across the board, so if it were strictly a calibration issue, I would think it would show up elsewhere as well. In thinking back my problems pretty much started with the installation of X8, I still have X6 installed so I'm going back later today and do some comparison.

 

[smoke665]

This is seriously wrong.

Have to leave for doctors appointment. Will post the documentation from X8 later today.