Color versus black and white

[Hooligan Dan]

Nothing really to add, but today my photo essay and story on my Tent City ran and up until a few minutes ago there was only one comment left on our site. It's basically a reader ripping into my photos because they are B&W and not color.

Clearly color VS b&w to readers is just a matter of taste while to me it seems like it's a matter of context and what you want to emphasize in the photos.

 

[Fox Paw]

"Unless you're totally inflexible, work in B&W and color." Absolutely. It's just how you lean.

 

[Garbz]

That's all good and fine, but I find I can't do that when working with a digital camera. When I see a colour photo and then convert it to black and white in post, even if the original intention was black and white then 95% of the time I hate it and revert to the colour.

I shoot black and white all the time these days, but only ever on the film camera, with my own development, and own set of colour filters. I find it makes a world of difference knowing an image will be only black and white to how you treat the picture.

For me black and white is about expressing using tone control, whereas colour is about capturing the real, or surreal at times. Dunno maybe I'm just weird.

 

[blash]

For me black and white is about expressing using tone control, whereas colour is about capturing the real, or surreal at times. Dunno maybe I'm just weird.

Your problem is that your description of black and white is too scientific. "Tone control"? Gimme a break. Go back to the soul of the image and you will find good B&W prints.

I'm also one to believe that although you might be able to better control the approximate output of a B&W photo digitally (since you can apply the effects of any color filter in photoshop, not just what you might've shot in the field on film), the best total output will be done optically. There's nothing like a rich B&W print right off the fixer with deep blacks, bright whites, and a smattering of grain to complement the subject.

 

[EhJsNe]

I prefer colour, but some shots just look better in black and white. Some shots look good as both.

Most the shots I took this winter, I made into black and white. Snow just screams B&W to me. The contrast is nice.

It all depends on what floats yer boat.

 

[Hooligan Dan]

You guys should check out the link to my newspaper that I posted. The argument going on right now is that my photos being in B&W is me "spinning" the truth. I so wish I were allowed to comment with arguments rather than just sit and let ignorant people continue to be completely stupid. It's like they've never picked up news magazine or a photo-based magazine like National Geographic. I wonder what they'd have to say about James Nachtwey's photos since he shoots a majority of his shots in B&W. Surely Nachtwey is lying about the horrors he's seen in life because b&w photos are art and don't tell the truth. :er:

I've taken plenty of photos before that the readers haven't liked and I have no problem with that. But to question my integrity as a journalist because the photos are in b$w is ridiculous.

 

[blash]

You guys should check out the link to my newspaper that I posted. The argument going on right now is that my photos being in B&W is me "spinning" the truth. I so wish I were allowed to comment with arguments rather than just sit and let ignorant people continue to be completely stupid. It's like they've never picked up news magazine or a photo-based magazine like National Geographic. I wonder what they'd have to say about James Nachtwey's photos since he shoots a majority of his shots in B&W. Surely Nachtwey is lying about the horrors he's seen in life because b&w photos are art and don't tell the truth. :er:

I've taken plenty of photos before that the readers haven't liked and I have no problem with that. But to question my integrity as a journalist because the photos are in b$w is ridiculous.

What in the world are you talking about? You talking about me?

If so - hell no. I saw your thread and I have mad respect for your work. But you have to realize - there's no such thing as a photo that tells the absolute truth, because there's no such thing as the absolute truth. The way the world works, different people hold different perspectives and thus different truths, because a truth is not something that is given to be absolutely correct but rather that we think to be absolutely correct (i.e. like how ancient people thought the Earth being flat was true). The thing about photography, in general, versus the real world is that while the real world can accurately convey all of these truths for anyone who looks, photography (especially your work) shows only 1 truth, which is therefore over-represented and taken to be absolutely correct. Black and white photography magnifies this effect, on a technical (and therefore sub-conscious) level by reducing differing truths (the color) so to speak. For example, your work - if the guy is wearing a dark shirt, a color photograph would better show if the shirt was dirty or not. Therefore, in essence your work "spins the truth" by not showing the subject exactly how he was. A BIG HOWEVER - that's the whole point of your work! It shows readers that these aren't just "sewer rats" or dirty bums but people, glowing people, who should be respected and brought back to society. By spinning the truth, you eliminate what mainstream society takes to be truth (the dirt, which through B&W is no longer visible) and show only the homeless people's truth - which makes it a much, much more powerful and valuable work.

Hope I cleared that up for you a bit - I'm a big proponent of B&W photography.

 

[skieur]

Well, there is always that one person who does not agree, and in this case it happens to be me. Maybe, it is hereditary. My mother started photography in the 1950's and never did black and white. I have never take any interest in black and white either. I see in colour, so I shoot in colour. Black and white is more unnatural and unrealistic than any adjustment or postprocessing technique in Photoshop, or for that matter any other imaging technique. Perhaps black and white "photos" should be considered images and not true photos, since they are not remotely realistic due to their two colours.

At least when film was all the rage, some photographers, working with large format cameras and considerable darkroom work, mastered the tonal range and attention to contrast and other details to produce a quality black and white image.

Since the advent of digital, most of the black and white work that I have seen is pathetic in quality, contrast, detail, and tonal range. The attitude even mentioned on this site by some is that photographic weaknesses will be less noticeable if the image is converted from colour to black and white.
So, now it seems that the interest in black and white by some digital photographers is because it seems less difficult and easier to cover up problems created by colours and weaknesses in tonal quality.

skieur

 

[Hooligan Dan]

What in the world are you talking about? You talking about me?

If so - hell no. I saw your thread and I have mad respect for your work. But you have to realize - there's no such thing as a photo that tells the absolute truth, because there's no such thing as the absolute truth. The way the world works, different people hold different perspectives and thus different truths, because a truth is not something that is given to be absolutely correct but rather that we think to be absolutely correct (i.e. like how ancient people thought the Earth being flat was true). The thing about photography, in general, versus the real world is that while the real world can accurately convey all of these truths for anyone who looks, photography (especially your work) shows only 1 truth, which is therefore over-represented and taken to be absolutely correct. Black and white photography magnifies this effect, on a technical (and therefore sub-conscious) level by reducing differing truths (the color) so to speak. For example, your work - if the guy is wearing a dark shirt, a color photograph would better show if the shirt was dirty or not. Therefore, in essence your work "spins the truth" by not showing the subject exactly how he was. A BIG HOWEVER - that's the whole point of your work! It shows readers that these aren't just "sewer rats" or dirty bums but people, glowing people, who should be respected and brought back to society. By spinning the truth, you eliminate what mainstream society takes to be truth (the dirt, which through B&W is no longer visible) and show only the homeless people's truth - which makes it a much, much more powerful and valuable work.

Hope I cleared that up for you a bit - I'm a big proponent of B&W photography.

I think you need to calm down a bit, my friend. Unless you go by the name "Gary Cloud" and are a user on my local newspapers website that I linked to I am most definitely not talking about you.

Also, thank you for having "mad respect" for my photos, haha.

 

[Garbz]

Your problem is that your description of black and white is too scientific. "Tone control"? Gimme a break. Go back to the soul of the image and you will find good B&W prints.

Nah the problem was it is too simplistic. I didn't mean that every black and white image that has great tone is a great image. I mean that once all other things are taken out of it such as finding the interesting view of the subject and perfectly framing it, it comes down to tone control, thinking if the red filter or a blue filter would be better, what should be dark what should be light, should the image be high contrast etc.

These are things I don't consider when doing the last mile work on digital colour pictures because well there isn't that much of a choice. Beyond limited dodging and burning I find the tone in colour images are set by the scene, whereas in black and white, the decision to have either the grass or the sky white or black or both makes a big difference in the way I approach the art.

Anyway not saying it's right or wrong. I enjoy both equally. Just saying this is what I do and how I feel about it. This desire to control tone in strange ways also brought on my love for IR photography.