composition help

'. . .subject matter and how to shoot it.'

The last few posts pointed out ways to sharpen your photographer's 'eye.' Let me add a bit.

One problem we sometimes face is that we are too familiar with our surroundings. It's always easier to take interesting pictures in a new locale. But there are pictures all around us all the time. Learning how to see these is an important part of becoming a better photographer.

Sometimes playing a little game with yourself can help you to see things in a different light. Take the town you live in (or near.) Now pretend a magazine has given you the assignment of taking eight shots of the town for a two-page spread in an up-coming issue. You have to complete the shots by the end of the week.

Or eight shots of 'life' on the main street of your town.

Or eight shots of the buildings and architecture of your town.

Any of these 'projects' should result in you looking at the work of the 'pros' in a new way. You'll absorb something of their approach to composition and lighting along the way. You'll look at your town differently, too. And you'll probably take better pictures of it.

On photographing people: think of someone you know well. What if you had to describe that person to someone who didn't know him/her? What's the most important thing about that person's personality/character? Now how can you show that in a picture? A good portrait doesn't have to be the traditional 'head-and-shoulders' pose.

Finally, think of an artist working in oils or watercolors. He starts with a blank canvas and adds to it. He adds until he has added just enough and then stops.

A photographer starts with the entire universe. He subtracts from it. He continues to subtract until what is left is just enough.

Both end up with a composition. They just have different starting points.
 
Way back in my high school days...(A long time ago...in a galaxy far........far......away)
I had an art teacher tell me to take a figurine like a (god this is dating me) Six Million Dollar Man ACTION Figure and prop it up. Then turn out the lights, and turn on a flashlight. Move the flashlight around and get different shadow effects. The different angles of the flashlight highlighted different aspects of the figure. By putting the flashlight under the figure's chin, the shadows made him look almost satanic. Over the forehead, the figure looks solemn. From each side, dramatic, etc.
That along with the advice above should help you to some degree.

Here are some examples of what I mean:

From an acute angle, the lighting is directly behind me:

ba516587.jpg




Lighting and subject 'centered':

PICT0198.jpg




Different elements particularly lines heading toward a centered vanishing point, but with alot of balance between mass of the clouds, and buildings:

Clouds1.jpg




The tree although centered, is taken from below, and the sky occupies only 1/3 of the image the rock face a third, and the tree a third... Hence rules of 3's, rule of thirds, etc.

CopyofPICT0241.jpg



I hope this helps. http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f157/Soocom1/Red Clay Photography/CopyofPICT0241.jpg
 
When it comes to so called rules of composition, there are none, none what so ever, none to follow or not follow. Following some of these "rules" that have been mentioned only limits ones creativity and growth.

Techique can be taught how to compose should not be.
 
JC1220 said:
When it comes to so called rules of composition, there are none, none what so ever, none to follow or not follow. Following some of these "rules" that have been mentioned only limits ones creativity and growth.

Techique can be taught how to compose should not be.

Nothing works all the time, but something work most of the time in the same situations. What you want to do is master basics, then have a reason to ignore them.

We almost agree.
 
My wife says much of the same as you did, she is a RISD grad, and designer. When it comes to that form of work, I can see the need for rules and knowing when to break them, etc. But, with photography especially in the pursuit of art, absolutly no rules of composition it just crushes creativity.

Since you mention Weston and his Day Books:
He said, "Composition is the strongest way of seeing."
That has nothing to do with rules.

I would agree we are not far off.
Cheers.
 
lean all the rules you can about composition, then forget it all.
 
I wish there was a rule for every situation and every viewer. If there had been, I could have retired rich. Unfortunately that is not the case and times they do change.

For instance the number of verticle pictures has shrunk (is that a word) with the difficulty of shooting them. Because there was and is no reason for them? I think not. More because people have gotten used to the empty frame, Tv and computer screens you know.

It is hard if not totally impossible to shoot bounce flash off a side wall. that is what would happen with most on camera aux flashes. Back in my day (lol) I had an L bracket that I could swing down so that even with the camera turned up for verticle shots, the flash was up not to the side. They still make those, just not many people think to use them... Too much trouble I assume. Why they don't crop verticle is a pixel issue I expect..But I digress.

For Me (and since there are no rules, I am the only one who counts) it's all about the image. Now if you put a person in the right hand third of a shot. and there is nothing to Balance it out, hanging on the wall that image looks as though its going to fall under its own weight... That is NOT good composition to me (the only one who counts)...

Then again who are we shooting for. It's really hard to say. It's kinda like porno... I can't give you a definitive definition, but I know bad porn when I see it. So I know good composition (for me) when I see it. I also know bad composition when I see it. It helps to know what the old rules were, so you can pull out those elements when you need a little extra push. Like that foreground to create the illusion of depth when you do landscape. You can shoot a thousand shots and get a couple of great ones. The trick is to raise that to a much higher percentage. For that you need to shoot what people judge good (lol) good composition.

I think we should divide picture into NEW compostion and OLD composition for they are far different. Now I shall stand back and prepare to be assaulted.
 
JC1220 said:
When it comes to so called rules of composition, there are none, none what so ever, none to follow or not follow. Following some of these "rules" that have been mentioned only limits ones creativity and growth.

Techique can be taught how to compose should not be.


ummmmm.....
 
Remi M. said:
I consider my self a beginner too. But there is one thing that I learned that has not been mentioned here.

Pay attention to whats in the viewfinder. When your shooting your so focused on the subject you don't notice whats around the subject. I try to keep things simple. And try to find lines that lead to the subject.

All good advice.... and harder to follow than you might imagine.

Pete
 
I swore I wouldnt do this again but a quick story... In my late twenties I dated a clenical psychologist. We were discussing child as father of the man when I said I just wanted to forget my childhood.

She said, "No, you have to understand it and make peace with it. YOU CAN NEVER KNOW WHERE YOU ARE GOING IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHERE YOU HAVE BEEN...." not sure that will make sense to many of you or any of you for that matter. But it does to me...
 
mystery you are an interesting person and i enjoy reading your rambles
 
but its cool. :)

my take on compositon.
It alot like jazz....there are rules, lots of them, scales to follow chords to play, modes etc. (Rule of thirds, converging lines, foreground etc.)
yet the best jazzers dont always follow the rules, hell some of them made careers by breaking every single rule.
The saying is, you learn the chords, you study the modes, you practice your scales every single day until you can do it in your sleep or drunk as hell. (jazzers like the boos and drugs) Basicaly you learn the rules like the back of your hand, then you forget it all. You play what you feel, and because somewhere in the back of your mind you know the rules, you can take what you feel and put it into sound, you can make the 12 notes say what you want. and the same is true with composition. learn all the rules, learn what subject on the left side of the frame do as opposed to the right side. practice it. give your self assignment where you go take pictures of patterns, or converging lines, or verticle etc etc. IF you do it enough, you eventually begine to see it with out thinking, you see how it needs to be composed. Then once you have learned all that, you dont think about composition, you just see it. You see if it needs to be dead center or off to the side...

thats my 2 cents...
 
The "rules" are there for a reason. People tend to have certain responses to certain stimuli. Light from the upper left usually signifies "normality", while light from below tends to come across as spooky. If you try to shoot a romantic scene with the light coming from below the person's chin, you may not get the response you are looking for. Someone who throws out the rules and shoots haphazardly runs into a crap shoot of responses. Someone who knows the rules and how to use them to get the responses they are looking for tends to have more success.

It may look like someone like Picasso doesn't follow rules, and he didn't in the sense that anyone was telling him what to do, but he knew them inside and out and extactly how to manipulate them.

Rules don't dictate your creative choices, but they do inform them. Just like an actor generaly isn't going to shout angrily to express a gentle idea, or a painter will use blues and greens to express a burning hot feeling.
 

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