Confused

Hi there.
I have a strange question...

I am somewhat new to DSLR photography. I know my camera terms and how my camera works, but I am just struggling to feel the confidence in using anything other than Auto...
Reason being is due to time.

But that sounds like you really _don't_ know the ins and outs of how the camera works. Perhaps, when you're not shooting something where you're under pressure, you should take your camera and go shooting and *force* yourself to think through each shot. Ask yourself if you should give priority to aperture vs. shutter for the shot which aperture or shutter would work best, and make sure you're easily able to find the complementary exposure settings to make your primary setting and still render a good exposure.

I do a lot of kids parties and wedding in a particularly awkwardly-lit church.
Correction... that would be "normally-lit" church. ;-)

What's unusual is to walk into a church with fabulous lighting. Almost every church is much much less than ideal for photography.

I am known for getting the best facial shots and emotions and just basically getting perfectly timed shots that other photographers miss by a second.
That sounds great. It sounds like you're good at picking the "decisive moment" to shoot.
The thought of missing a shot because I am trying to sort out my ExComp etc just freaks me out.

As an example. In the church where I shoot, there is a huge stained glass window up in the front of the church and depending on where I'm aimed at for the couple, the difference in light is crazy. Then if I turn to view the congregation or the front of the couple, the room is extremely dark. So if I'm going back and forth, changing my settings is just so time consuming, and I'll be staring at my little screen more than taking pics. If time were not an issue, I could set up the shot with no problem... but these are moments that cannot be put on hold.

Ahhh... there's a secret to this. When I did weddings, I didn't actually meter the shot, then set the exposure, then take the shot. It's much much faster than that. I was shooting with a camera that didn't have any form of auto-mode (Hasselblad 500 CM)... it was an entirely manual film camera. We know, even before shooting, what the exposure settings need to be. We even know the focus based on the intended framing we plan to use. The camera is actually pre-focused and the exposure settings are already dialed in. We walk up, frame the subject -- we might need to touch-up the focus or exposure slightly, and then take the shot. But it all happens very quickly.

The main point to stress here is that the shooting is primary proactive and not reactive.

But keep in mind that as a pro wedding photographer, there's a point where you've done so many weddings, that you know the shots by rote. This is where the practice comes in... drill yourself.

Without looking at your meter, "guess" at what you think the right exposure will be. Then meter it and correct yourself. Do this and over and over and in enough situations and you'll get to a point where you're actually pretty good at guessing at what the exposure is going to be. I'm not saying you don't check the meter... my point is that you pre-set the camera before you even walk up to take the shot. Then the only thing you have to do is dial in the correction and that can be done rather quickly.

I think everyone should learn and be comfortable shooting entirely in manual... but that said I actually use most of the modes on the camera and I don't just stick to manual. I might look at a dimly lit church and decide that based on my subject and depth of field needs, that I can get away with f/2.8 which will collect as much light as possible and still get a single subject distance in tack-sharp focus (but blur the background). Since it's a church, I'm probably going to have the ISO cranked up a bit if I'm doing natural light photography... so maybe it's somewhere between 3200 and 6400 (not a problem for a modern full-frame camera). So now the _only_ thing I need to dial in is the shutter speed and I might have a good guess that it'll be somewhere around, say... 1/60th (again... I might be wrong, and need to change it. But I can change that very quickly.)

For even faster peformance, I might use Av mode, set my ISO to whatever I want (say 4000), set my aperture to f/2.8, and then let the camera pick the shutter speed for me.

Maybe someone will tell me I don't know my camera settings well enough. Maybe I am just doomed to shoot in auto forever... but like I said, although I know my camera, I am not fast at calculating DOF in my head and figuring out the best ISO:Fstop:Shutter value for that particular shot when the moment is only a second long.

How the heck do pro's do it? Do the pro's mentally know their DOF ranges with the different lenses they use at different F stops etc? Do they turn on and off the manual focus for high speed moving subjects (no flash). Do they just have trigger happy fingers and hope for the best? (chuckling at the daggers being thrown at me with that comment lol)

I'm just feeling a bit daunted, cause I really want to be the best in my field, but I feel like there is a piece of the puzzle missing for me to open that next door.

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Claire

As mentioned above, the pros have shot these shots so very many times that it becomes habitual and they can guess the correct (or pretty darned close to the correct) exposure settings before even lifting the camera to their eye.

I don't memorize the DoF table... but I know the character of the focal ratio and focal lengths. I know that with a normal to long focal length that I wont get much background blur at f/8 (it'll be more like soft focus than blur), a tiny bit softer at f/5.6, but f/4 will be pleasantly blurred, f/2.8 will be strongly blurred, and f/2 will be so gosh-darned sweet and creamy as to induce diabetes just by looking at the photo (don't shoot at f/2 if you have a heart condition!) ;-)

You need to practice, but don't just practice by shooting randomly... practice with a goal of learning to just one aspect at time. Practice learning the relationship of f-stop to background blur... imagine in your head how much blur you'd like (if any) and then set the appropriate f-stop you think you need to use to achieve that goal. Take the shot. Then see if you got the result you wanted. Keep doing that for a variety of wide and narrow depth of field targets. Keep your focal length constant (e.g. shoot everything at 50mm). Then start to vary the focal length (but keep the f-stop constant... say, f/2.8 or f/4 for every shot) and you'll notice that there's a relationship with the focal lengths (and subject distances) as well.

You can do the same thing for shutter speeds... decide when you want to "freeze" action vs. "imply motion" (let it blur).

Do the same for lighting... as mentioned above, "guess" what exposure you'll probably need and try it then adjust as necessary.

Notice, for example, that while I wasn't in YOUR church, I'm guessing settings such as ISO 6400, f/2.8 and 1/60th... that's because after enough weddings, you start to get a feel for what you can expect. If I'd actually seen the church in question I'd have a pretty good idea if it was brighter than normal, or normal, or darker than normal (all of which will tend to be on the dark-ish side. It's exceedingly rare that a church is nicely lit for photographic purposes.)
 
A refresher of the forum's guidelines:

To Our Working Pros:

* You know better than anyone how hard it can be to get started! Every working professional and experienced photographer had to start at the beginning at some point. Here is your chance to offer tips and advice to those just coming up in the field.

* This is a place to offer advice and encouragement. Rudeness, snide remarks and 'newbie bashing' will not be tolerated.


To Imagemaker46, CGipson and gsgary:

Your comments are all in violation of the above guidelines. The intent and spirit of this forum is for those working pros to contribute to someone’s photographic knowledge, someone who does not know, admits they don’t know, and comes here for HELP.

It makes me sick to read the continuous newbie-bashing that you three gentlemen continue to engage in, towards anyone who does not have the same level of experience and knowledge that you all claim to have. It must be wonderful to be you, and know it all, so you can sit around on this forum and amuse yourselves by bashing those lesser beings.

I deleted your first snarky comments, but I will leave the ones you followed up with since, despite your worldly expertise in the area of photography, you are greatly lacking in enough common sense to take a hint when you see it. I will tell you publicly that from here on out, I and the rest of the moderators will, in fact, delete each and every comment of yours that is less than helpful, and aimed only at making newcomers feel stupid, demeaned and incompetent.

Enough deletions and we'll grow tired of it, and bounce you all out of here like red rubber balls. So straighten up and play nice in this forum, or simply STAY OUT.
 
I realize that this thread and forum is for people that are hoping to or are just becoming professional photographers, but the Op has a camera that she is afraid of, it's really just that simple. She gets stressed at the thought of moving from full auto to manual, how does this say professional photographer, that too is very simple. She is charging money for her work and it doesn't matter if she is afraid of the camera she uses. As long as she is capturing those magical wedding moments, who really gives a sh*t. It doesn't affect my life or anyone else on this forum, it doesn't matter if I say she's an amateur with a camera she's afraid to use for fear of screwing up the magical settings.
 
I realize that this thread and forum is for people that are hoping to or are just becoming professional photographers, but the Op has a camera that she is afraid of, it's really just that simple. She gets stressed at the thought of moving from full auto to manual, how does this say professional photographer, that too is very simple. She is charging money for her work and it doesn't matter if she is afraid of the camera she uses. As long as she is capturing those magical wedding moments, who really gives a sh*t. It doesn't affect my life or anyone else on this forum, it doesn't matter if I say she's an amateur with a camera she's afraid to use for fear of screwing up the magical settings.

It's all in how you deliver your opinion, which in this forum actually does matter, which is why we have the guidelines you are in violation of.

In fact, the OP made several comments about the need for her to "practice, practice, practice". She admitted her faults and is eager to learn. SHE GETS IT. Lay off.
 
So you decide who's opinions are valid and who's are not. So when all the rude and snide comments are directed at me, one of the working pros, as have been for several months, you decide that they are ok? The thread is locked, but the comments are not deleted. Lets play fair. :er:
 
Just so everyone is aware, in case it was not made clear enough in the forum description.... This particular section is specifically for aspiring pros, or new pros that want advice or to present business ideas without fear of disparaging comments. This includes, but not limited to, "telling it like it is" and "not sugar coating things"...

In THIS section only, comments will be more closely monitored, and non helpful or disparaging/inflammatory comments WILL be deleted with extreme prejudice, and without warning.

The rest of the forum will continue to operate as per usual. If you are not able to offer advice in a "nice" manner, please refrain from commenting in this section and stick to the other forum sections.

Again, this is a special "protected" (so to speak) section, with different moderation rules than the rest of the forum, and was implemented with the full support of the moderation team.

Thank you for your cooperation.
 
On behalf of myself I would like to apologize for statements that I made regarding anything negative towards anyone that has posted a question looking for help. While I stand by my comments I will show more restraint in the future. I would also appreciate if the same courtesy was attached to the comments made by certain members on this forum that are directed to the working professionals, including snide comments directed from several of the moderators.

"It must be wonderful to be you, and know it all, so you can sit around on this forum and amuse yourselves by bashing those lesser beings"

Shall we all play fair now?
 
On behalf of myself I would like to apologize for statements that I made regarding anything negative towards anyone that has posted a question looking for help. While I stand by my comments I will show more restraint in the future. I would also appreciate if the same courtesy was attached to the comments made by certain members on this forum that are directed to the working professionals, including snide comments directed from several of the moderators.

"It must be wonderful to be you, and know it all, so you can sit around on this forum and amuse yourselves by bashing those lesser beings"

Shall we all play fair now?

A bit late to be acting like the wounded party here. ;) Playing fair kind of means that you don't apologize in one sentence then say you stand by your comments in the next. All that is asked and expected from you is to abide by the posted guidelines. When that happens, there are no reported posts, and no one taking offense.

Let's keep the thread from going any further off the rails than it already has, please. We would like to keep it open, so further comments about guidelines should be made via PM if deemed necessary. Thanks!
 
That is my best political apology. I would just like everything on a level playing field, and as Forrest Gump says "and that's all I have to say about that" :er:
 
That is my best political apology. I would just like everything on a level playing field...

I think the point being made by the moderators is that this area of TPF is not a level playing field with regards to the rest of TPF. Pixmedic pretty much laid it all out.

I'm sure you'll be treated equitably here, in the "Aspiring Pros" section. Elsewhere, though, it's been made pretty clear that different rules apply.

As for you taking exception to the comment about you "bashing lesser beings", frankly, Terri's comment was warranted.

When I saw this forum, I knew what was going to happen. I've a long history here of having a problem with people who demean, deride and prove to be unhelpful, and I've often been called on the carpet for my comments regarding that. When I saw the rules for this particular area, I knew it wouldn't take long before someone ran afoul of those rules.

Belittling people who are trying to get started accomplishes nothing, and I applaud the mods for making special considerations...
 
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You don't need to look at your screen. You can see all the important info through the viewfinder. Personally using manual focus takes longer for me and if the subject is moving, forget about it especially depending on the f stop you're at.

You said you aren't sure about calculating DOF quickly. The smaller the number (ex. F2.8 )the less in focus and the more open the lens is. The bigger the number (ex. F11) the more in focus and the more close the lens is.
 
That is my best political apology. I would just like everything on a level playing field...

I think the point being made by the moderators is that this area of TPF is not a level playing field with regards to the rest of TPF. Pixmedic pretty much laid it all out.

I'm sure you'll be treated equitably here, in the "Aspiring Pros" section. Elsewhere, though, it's been made pretty clear that different rules apply.

As for you taking exception to the comment about you "bashing lesser beings", frankly, Terri's comment was warranted.

When I saw this forum, I knew what was going to happen. I've a long history here of having a problem with people who demean, deride and prove to be unhelpful, and I've often been called on the carpet for my comments regarding that. When I saw the rules for this particular area, I knew it wouldn't take long before someone ran afoul of those rules.

Belittling people who are trying to get started accomplishes nothing, and I applaud the mods for making special considerations...

Well put Steve, thank-you!

This is exactly right. This forum was created specifically to provide an area for those who have recently started or are thinking of starting a business to ask all of those questions that to some seasoned veterans may seem stupid or pointless, but........ if you think back, are they all so far wrong from the questions you had when you started? Probably not! You can still give honest, and straight-forward answers to questions in here, but keep them helpful and respectful!
 
That is my best political apology. I would just like everything on a level playing field...

I think the point being made by the moderators is that this area of TPF is not a level playing field with regards to the rest of TPF. Pixmedic pretty much laid it all out.

I'm sure you'll be treated equitably here, in the "Aspiring Pros" section. Elsewhere, though, it's been made pretty clear that different rules apply.

As for you taking exception to the comment about you "bashing lesser beings", frankly, Terri's comment was warranted.

When I saw this forum, I knew what was going to happen. I've a long history here of having a problem with people who demean, deride and prove to be unhelpful, and I've often been called on the carpet for my comments regarding that. When I saw the rules for this particular area, I knew it wouldn't take long before someone ran afoul of those rules.

Belittling people who are trying to get started accomplishes nothing, and I applaud the mods for making special considerations...

Well put Steve, thank-you!

This is exactly right. This forum was created specifically to provide an area for those who have recently started or are thinking of starting a business to ask all of those questions that to some seasoned veterans may seem stupid or pointless, but........ if you think back, are they all so far wrong from the questions you had when you started? Probably not! You can still give honest, and straight-forward answers to questions in here, but keep them helpful and respectful!

Trouble is it looks like most of the posters have just bought their cameras and come here instead of beginners forum, i think people are going to get fed up of answering stupid questions that an aspiring pro should know
 
Hi there.
Maybe someone will tell me I don't know my camera settings well enough. Maybe I am just doomed to shoot in auto forever... but like I said, although I know my camera, I am not fast at calculating DOF in my head and figuring out the best ISO:Fstop:Shutter value for that particular shot when the moment is only a second long.

This statement is what I focused on.
If I have to shoot in a dim environment, I use aperture preferred, set the shutter speed lowest bounds to be what I can hand-hold and that will be satisfactory for the situation. The iso is set on automatic to float as is needed and I use EC when necessary. I take a few shots before action time so I know how much ec I'll need for the various sites.

In shooting, I vary the aperture for depth of field, let the camera manage the shutter speed and iso and use ec to compensate when the camera is being misled.
Not much thinking is necessary because I know what ec settings I will be using in which areas and I am only resetting the

If you shoot raw, you'll be close enough to correct when the ec is a bit off.
 

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