creative careers are foolish

[bribrius]

I get what you're saying, bribrius.

There's plenty of room for emotional displays in our society, we're affluent and lucky. But even here, when the stuff is hittin' the fan someone's got to get down to business and get things done. Even if it's trivial, the wife is sick, and someone's gotta put the kids to bed and wash the dishes. Getting on facebook and whining about how hard your life is isn't going to get the dishes any cleaner.

This doesn't mean there's no love, there's no sadness, there's no anguish. It's there, but you put it down for a bit to get the dishes washed, or get the kid to the ER, or plant the corn, or bury the cow, or whatever.

I had NO idea what this has to do with the OP's remarks, though.

Me either. Lost track.

 

[AlanKlein]

Why do you have to have a job in the arts to be creative? I've been a boss, an application engineer, a project manager of specialty construction work, etc. Every job I've had required to think out of the box, be creative in getting the job done, dealing with people, banks, management, design, execution, how to make money, how to make payroll weekly, and even relaxation. The idea that only artists can use their creative talents isn't correct.

 

[Austin Greene]

Giving an old-fashioned reply, enough of side-tracked discussion in suicide, imho.

Is the passion to create enough to justify the hardships?

In my case I spent most of my time fighting for respect, justifying my position, and convincing people with zero creativity that my idea and opinions are valid. I spend many night away from my family to create things for people who are ungrateful. All for the same pay as a retail manager.

Sometimes I wonder if accounting or plumbing would have yielded less stress and more money to enjoy creative hobbies.

I believe so.

The people I've met thus far in my life, the happiest people, are those who do what they love for a living. No exceptions.

As for earning people's respect, my take on that is simply that I don't want your respect if you won't freely give it. You need no person's validation besides your own, and nobody is going to stop you from doing what you want to do besides you. That's what gets me when people talk about how few individuals "make it" in photography. I can promise you that those master, celebrity-status photographers never once thought to themselves "Man, I probably won't make it, so I should just not try." If they had, they wouldn't be where they are. You need complete and utter confidence in yourself. That applies to any area of work.

Also, if you're getting paid the same as a retail manager, target bigger fish. For example, I work full-time at my current studio job, but I'm building a wedding client base on the side. I have ZERO wedding experience, but this year I'm scheduled to pull in an extra 50% income from weddings alone, and that's at dirt cheap prices ($2k / wedding). Next year, when I actually have photos besides landscapes to show clients, I'll be doubling my prices and specifically targeting weddings in the $4-8k price range. My goal is 15 weddings for next year, more than doubling my income. I won't be able to do that, let alone get the clients, if I don't have absolute confidence in my abilities, even in areas I have never shot before.

Things will look good if you give them no other option.

 

[Buckster]

My hat's off to those who pursue the arts as a career, whether they are very successful or "starving".

Though I fantasized as a boy and young man that I would love to make my living making art with painting, sculpting, photography and music (and also as an engineer and inventor, and possibly an astronaut ), I didn't see the arts (nor the astronaut) career as very practical, the more I opened my young eyes to the reality that surrounded me.

Having seen the real-life financial struggles of the artists in my own circle of family and friends while growing up definitely put me off the idea that I should make a real attempt myself. Too many of them were SO good, yet SO destitute. Some were formally educated in the arts, some not, but that didn't seem to matter either. It seemed that the only thing that really separated the successful from the "starving" was "a lucky break". And while that happened to a couple of them, the odds seemed very much against it, from what I could see.

For me, pursuing a career outside of the arts turned out okay. I very much enjoyed my work and the people I worked with, lived an adventurous life with lots of travel through it, was able to provide well for myself and my family, was able to use my creative, inventive, engineering and artistic facets in association with my regular career, had plenty of time and money to pursue my artistic hobbies without deadlines or worries of any kind associated with them, and socked enough money away into Social Security to enjoy a good monthly allotment now that I'm retired.

I think, for me, it was the right decision to go with a more traditional career, and I have no regrets over it.

 

[KenC]

I agree with Alan and Buckster. Many of us get to be creative in different ways at work, and then we get to be creative in other ways in our hobbies, and all this without starving!

 

[limr]

I agree with Alan and Buckster. Many of us get to be creative in different ways at work, and then we get to be creative in other ways in our hobbies, and all this without starving!

I think the point is less about being in a 'creative' career, and more about being in a career that isn't valued as highly, thus making it harder to make a decent living at it.

The essence of the question as I see it is, it is worth it to pursue a career that is meaningful but doesn't pay as well and gets less respect, or keep your work and your creative/meaningful/emotionally fulfilling activities separate?

And ultimately, I feel it's impossible to answer this question in anything more than an individual level. Some people are able to make it work, but not everyone can. And NOT for lack of effort or talent or passion. There are other factors to consider, and especially personality type. Are you someone that is bothered by instability? Then the lack of adequate financial compensation might stress you out more than it's worth. That kind of stress can kill creativity or motivation.

There's also the question of burnout. Spending my days focusing so much on teaching writing, for example, often leaves me little left over to do my own writing. I just have no energy left, and so I get very little of it done. However, on the days when I am doing work completely unrelated, or if I'm not teaching over the summer, I find that a creative impulse grows stronger and stronger, to the point that I can barely contain it anymore. I'm not getting that impulse fulfilled at work, so it comes out after work.

And for me, it makes me not want to make writing my "work." It makes it a little easier to think about working at a more boring, less satisfying job that will a) lessen my stress about finances, and b) allow my creative energy to be put towards the activities that WILL be satisfying to me.

I do still struggle with this on a daily basis, though. These are the questions that having been filling my head for months, even years. It's not an easy question to answer. How exactly does one balance our need to feed ourselves with our desire to feel intellectually, emotionally, or spiritually satisfied?

And in the meantime, while I'm figuring it out, I'm getting my sh*t done, even while having emotions! *gasp*

 

[DanOstergren]

but I can also tell you how being told to "man up" all my life has caused me all sorts of damage that I am struggling to fix as an adult and has resulted in me finding myself in a crisis clinic before.

Indeed, it's a good phrase for developing sociopaths.

I still struggle a great deal with being emotional as it was drilled into my head that emotions are for the weak and women. Man up, bury feelings under a layers of alcohol is the method I was accustomed to.

But hey, no worries I am getting better.

Have you ever seen this?

 

[DanOstergren]

but I can also tell you how being told to "man up" all my life has caused me all sorts of damage that I am struggling to fix as an adult and has resulted in me finding myself in a crisis clinic before.

Indeed, it's a good phrase for developing sociopaths.

I still struggle a great deal with being emotional as it was drilled into my head that emotions are for the weak and women. Man up, bury feelings under a layers of alcohol is the method I was accustomed to.

But hey, no worries I am getting better.

sounds like you were raised like me. It isn't that they are for weak or women, it is that it isn't about you. It is about your responsibilities and obligations. All emotional and frigged in the head you aren't beneficial to anyone. Ever hear the term "build your house on solid rock". Well NEWS FLASH. Soon as you reproduced you became that solid rock. And if you can't hold it together who else is going to be that rock? The wife or the baby? Go chop some wood. Life goes on. Get over it.

That isn't a good thing. IMO. The men are crying more than the women of thirty years ago did. You guys are putting a total spin on this. It is these old mentalities that survived the great depression, made it through wars, settled the plains. I get that it is "old school thinking" but there is a reason it is there. And i am not "discounting emotion" because of lacking sympathy. Just the reason some of these mentalities existed is because it revolved around sheer survival and building a country. It is easy to say "we shouldn't think like that anymore" but the ones saying that weren't the ones that built the country. Most of those in the emotion camp never built anything. Emotion does little good when you are starving or need to build a house or keep a farm or anything independent and productive. I could cry over the snow in my driveway but it isn't going to move it out of the way any quicker.

Bullsh*t.

It's disgusting and appalling.

 

[runnah]

but I can also tell you how being told to "man up" all my life has caused me all sorts of damage that I am struggling to fix as an adult and has resulted in me finding myself in a crisis clinic before.

Indeed, it's a good phrase for developing sociopaths.

I still struggle a great deal with being emotional as it was drilled into my head that emotions are for the weak and women. Man up, bury feelings under a layers of alcohol is the method I was accustomed to.

But hey, no worries I am getting better.

Have you ever seen this?

Very strong indeed! I am trying to raise my son without all the crap that I grew up with so we'll see how that goes.

 

[DanOstergren]

but I can also tell you how being told to "man up" all my life has caused me all sorts of damage that I am struggling to fix as an adult and has resulted in me finding myself in a crisis clinic before.

Indeed, it's a good phrase for developing sociopaths.

I still struggle a great deal with being emotional as it was drilled into my head that emotions are for the weak and women. Man up, bury feelings under a layers of alcohol is the method I was accustomed to.

But hey, no worries I am getting better.

Have you ever seen this?

Very strong indeed! I am trying to raise my son without all the crap that I grew up with so we'll see how that goes.

I think the result will be him growing up to be highly confident. I wish my step-dad raised me that way.

 

[limr]

Very strong indeed! I am trying to raise my son without all the crap that I grew up with so we'll see how that goes.

Fight the good fight. THAT is worth it, for sure.

 

[photoguy99]

I'm pretty sure you can raise a kid to understand that there are times when you've just got to get on with it, without yelling "don't be a *****!!" at them all the time. Kids are not morons.

The point is not that we have to beat the emotions out of the kids. The point is to teach them that they're in charge of their feelings, not the other way around. That particular message seems to be getting lost.

 

[runnah]

but I can also tell you how being told to "man up" all my life has caused me all sorts of damage that I am struggling to fix as an adult and has resulted in me finding myself in a crisis clinic before.

Indeed, it's a good phrase for developing sociopaths.

I still struggle a great deal with being emotional as it was drilled into my head that emotions are for the weak and women. Man up, bury feelings under a layers of alcohol is the method I was accustomed to.

But hey, no worries I am getting better.

Have you ever seen this?

Very strong indeed! I am trying to raise my son without all the crap that I grew up with so we'll see how that goes.

I think the result will be him growing up to be highly confident. I wish my step-dad raised me that way.

That's my hope! The good thing is most educators seem to have adopted this mentality so that is good.

 

[bribrius]

I'm pretty sure you can raise a kid to understand that there are times when you've just got to get on with it, without yelling "don't be a *****!!" at them all the time. Kids are not morons.

The point is not that we have to beat the emotions out of the kids. The point is to teach them that they're in charge of their feelings, not the other way around. That particular message seems to be getting lost.

lol. Everyone has different approaches. My sons are pretty young. So far i am raising my sons talk softly and carry a big stick. They are young though. Will see. Even my daughter spent years in martial arts competitions and has a closet of weapons..Doesn't mean i don't give her hug every day and she doesn't call me daddy. Just means if anyone ever attacks her or tshtf she takes their head off (hopefully). I think my goal here is to balance it with prudence and discernment. My cousin (leo) is raising his kids all no b.s. Gun dealer i know, all three of his boys "talk softly and carry a big stick". Balance it out with some wits and all is good. But crying in your cheerios.. eh... no.

 

[Fred Berg]

Denying and or suppressing emotions is dangerous practice.

“Unexpressed emotions will never die. They are buried alive and will come forth later in uglier ways.”
— Sigmund Freud