D4s

mikeschmeee · Feb 10, 2015

This is addressed to anyone who has plenty of D4s experience shooting in similar situations.

I've been photographing birds for a few years now but I'm still always learning so I don't consider myself anywhere near the amateur level. I'm still a beginner. Overall, I've been photographing for 8 years now. This does not include my off and on periods during my younger years.

Lets get right into it:

I'm shooting birds in flight with a D4s, 300mm f/2.8G ED VRII and TC-20E III teleconverter. Most of my images are out of focus when shooting birds in flight coming towards me. My current settings:

AF-C, release + focus, group area AF, focus tracking with lock-on is off, f/8, VR is on when hand held regardless of shutter speed, VR is off when on a tripod.

The camera will focus when I press and hold the shutter release button halfway to focus on the bird. Once focus is acquired, I press down the rest of the way and hold the shutter release button as a bird flies towards me, firing off multiple images (around 20 or so). When I preview the shots on the camera, the first two-five frames are alright but the rest of the 10 to 20 are out of focus. I had better luck with the same lens, teleconverter and similar settings on my D7100 and my D90 but the D4s is giving me a hard time. This is a new camera (bought on Jan 31, 2015) so I'm still learning but I'm interested to know if my settings are wrong? The lens and teleconverter were purchased late October 2014.

I also tried the following combinations:

AF-C, release, group area AF, f/8

AF-C, release, every dynamic-area AF, f/8

AF-C, focus, group area AF, f/8

AF-C, focus, every dynamic-area AF, f/8

When AF-C priority selection is set to release, I can shoot up to 44 shots with my SanDisk 64gb 160mb/s Compact Flash card but very little are in focus.

When AF-C priority selection is set to focus, my frame rate drops dramatically and it feels like I'm shooting with a D40. However, the focus rate does increase but not by much (I have not experimented enough with this combo just yet)

I shoot RAW, large, uncompressed, 14-bit

So far I've been shooting at a local lake but the weather has been quite cloudy with low lighting and I'm not sure if it's the fairly little contrast between the bird and what's behind it that may be causing this focus issue? Male and female mallards have a bit of contrast in my opinion but maybe not enough under these weather conditions? Perhaps it's the lens and/or the teleconverters but I did not run into this problem with my D90 or my D7100 so I'm still thinking that the D4s has a setting that I overlooked or I am not aware off.
I am supposed to be shooting in bursts? Focus, shoot 2-3 frames, let go of shutter release button, focus again, shoot 2-3 frames, so on and so on? I've also tried using the AF-ON button to focus and only use the shutter release button for snapping the image but that has little effect as well.

When shooting anything stationary with the D4s, the sharpness is great, no matter what lens I put on. But as soon as I start to shoot birds in flight it all goes south.

I have not experimented with AF-C single point yet as I'm under the impression that I should be using group area AF when shooting birds in flight. I'm determined to figure this out and I want the camera to work properly so all of the assistance I can get is greatly appreciated. I just want to know the best setting in order to photograph birds in flight and have crisp, sharp focused photographs 95% of the time whether or not the frame is filled. This issue is really concerning to me and at this point very disappointing. I am not ruling out that it may be the operator just not knowing how to use a professional camera

Looking forward to hearing from anyone who may have some insight

Please and thank you,

Mike

MSnowy · Feb 10, 2015

I don't have a D4s but a D3s I shot almost always AF-C single point center. Most times focus and sometimes release

AKUK · Feb 10, 2015

Hmm. It sounds like you have tried just about everything possible on the camera. Initially I thought it would be an issue with the shutter priority but you then went on to cover that. The only other thing I can think of as a potential problem is the VR mode on the lens. Is it set to normal or active? Do you use a tripod and gimbal head, or shooting freehand?

mikeschmeee · Feb 10, 2015

Thanks for the quick replies.

I will be trying single point and focus priority next time I'm out.

99% of the time the lens is set to normal. I'll try active next time but from what I read in manuals and online, normal should be fine. However that doesn't mean its always right.
Yes, I use a tripod: Induro Carbon 8X CT314 tripod with Induro GHB2 gimbal head. When I use the tripod VR is turned off. When I shoot handheld (freehand) VR is turned on no matter what shutter speed, usually above 1/1200 or much higher, up to 1/4000.

Out of curiosity, why do you think VR has something to do with the images being out of focus? I'm leaning towards something to do with the autofocus system.

Thank you

AKUK · Feb 10, 2015

It was a long shot to be honest. As the VR shifts the elements about in side the lens.

It can be difficult sometimes to nail these problems down. Are you experiencing the same thing in brighter conditions? Also are you getting the same focus issues just using the lens without the TC? Upon review, it sounds like the bird is moving beyond the focal plane between the time you are focusing and releasing the shutter. Another long shot - have you checked the exposure delay mode to make sure it's off?

Mach0 · Feb 10, 2015

I would try to shut off the vr and see what happens

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Dave442 · Feb 10, 2015

How many focus points did you have active, I would try the single point and lock it to the center point for some testing. I would use the AF-ON button for focus and set release priority for AF-C and focus priority for AF-S. The Group Area or 9 point Dynamic would be what I would also be inclined to use, but try the center single point to test.

curtyoungblood · Feb 10, 2015

I shoot Canon, so I may be way off base, but this sounds like a mix of a setting and technique issue. It doesn't sound like you have the camera set to track properly, and that you're expecting too much out of the camera.

When you set it to release priority, the camera is going to take pictures as quickly as possible, regardless of if they are in focus or not. When a bird is moving towards you, the camera a is going to need to continually refocus to make a sharp photo, but you're not letting it. I would suggest shooting a burst of 3-5 frames instead of 10-20, letting off the shutter and shooting another quick burst.

mikeschmeee · Feb 11, 2015

Thank you all for the quick replies.

AKUK,
Exposure delay mode is off
I have not been able to test the camera and lens combo in brighter conditions as it has been nothing but overcast and fairly low lighting. ISO was between 3200-4000. I will try again on the weekend as the weather report has stated that there will be some sunshine for the weekend. I have not tested without the teleconverter on the 300 f/2.8.
The bird is also not out of focus plane.

DAve442,
I tried both 51 and 11 number of focus points. I tried dynamic-area AF (9 points), dynamic-area AF (21 points), dynamic-area AF (51 points) and Group-area AF.
I have not tried using a single focus point but I will do so the next time I am out shooting.
AF-C priority selection set to release will take photos as quickly as possible regardless if the subject is in focus or not. I believe its best to set it to focus but I will try it anyways.

curtyoungblood,
I perfectly understand but shooting in bursts is not what the D4s was intended to do. I'll try to shoot in bursts though and see what results I come up with.

I found a few interesting videos to share with you all.

Thanks,
Mike

JacaRanda · Feb 11, 2015

Not sure what you meant by 'shooting in bursts is not what the D4s was intended to do'.

It is proven by the videos you posted.

Dave442 · Feb 11, 2015

Check that you are not set to 11 fps as you will not have autofocus from shot to shot in a burst. Have to lower to 10 fps max to have autofocus for each shot on the D4s.

mikeschmeee · Feb 11, 2015

JacaRanda,
Sorry I should have been more clear. I meant to say that from my understanding, the D4s can handle shooting in one continuous burst (pressing and holding the shutter release button until you feel like letting go and it will capture everything in focus)
That's why I posted those videos to show that is exactly what I'm doing with my camera but my results are horrible.

Dave442,
I am set to 11fps. Do you have a source on why it should be on 10fps in order to have each shot in focus? It does not say anything like this in the users manual when I went through the whole thing front to back. Unless I missed it of course which is highly possible.
I'll change it to 10fps and give it a go.

Perhaps I will make a similar video with my German Shepard running towards me to show what I am doing. I'll also do it with some ducks flying towards me in both low light cloudy conditions and sunny conditions.

Dave442 · Feb 11, 2015

Actually I remembered this note for the D4 and not the D4s, should have had my coffee first this morning. Just checked and the D4s is supposed to go to 11 fps, but might as well try at 10.
What memory card(s) are you using?

mikeschmeee · Feb 11, 2015

I am using a SanDisk Extreme Pro 64gb 160mb/s Compact Flash memory card

this one: SanDisk 64GB Extreme Pro CompactFlash Memory SDCFXPS-064G-A46

mikeschmeee · Feb 14, 2015

I spoke with three people so far and I received different suggestions from them all. I contacted the camera store which I purchased the D4s from along with a different camera store for a second opinion and I got a hold of someone at Nikon. It seems like nobody really knows the right answer but that's alright because I am determined to figure this out. I will not give up until this is resolved.
Hopefully, today will be the day to put the camera to the test. It's currently foggy here on the north west coast but I am waiting for that to clear up and I'll be shooting until straight into Sunday evening as weather reports have predicted nothing but clear skies and sunshine for this weekend.

I'll report back with the results for those who may be interested. I'll be trying birds in flight with single point focus, with and without the 2x and 1.4x teleconverter as well as changing up the AF-C focus priority. I'll also try shooting in burst as well. I'll see what gives me the best results.