difficulties to find the right new camera

useroo · Feb 15, 2017

Hello everyone, i can call myself an amateur with an artists eye in photography, with mere point-and-shoot experience.

I am trying to lift the quality of my photos by buying a new camera and spend endless hours, days, months, in fact already more or less a year doing online and in-store research on what might suit my needs and my budget.

So i'll start with the budget: around 600 Euro's plus or minus.

Body overall: pocketable (i don't mean pants pockets, but say coat pocket or a small bag, camera should be below 400 grams in weight in ready to shoot mode).

I'd like to go for a MFT or APS-C sensor size.

Not sure about lenses, fixed, removable, zoom or flat, but prefer something crisp and small in size and weight. (i mostly do landscape, macro but would also like to do wider angle indoor shots, i try to keep peoples faces out of my photos for respect of privacy, so street photography not my thing unless it's buildings and graffiti etc.)

Let me bring up some of the cameras i have found so far, but did not buy because of various reasons:

Panasonic has a few that looked real good on paper within my criteria: LX100, did not buy because a bit to bulky and has NO USB CHARGING (this turns me off quite a bit, so used to just leave the camera plugged into my lappy after uploading all photos and let it recharge via USB while i do the editing, removing a battery always triggers a reset of time and date, just to inconvenient). Next up the GX80 (or elsewhere called GX85), also a bit bulky, still in the running. There where also 2 other models from Panasonic, one with interchangable lenses one with a fixed ultra zoom lens.

Now coming to the real crux. I discovered the Ricoh GR II, and i was impressed by the crisp images even at full size viewing edge to edge. It is a pocketable size camera of reasonable weight - but it has a fixed lens, and that's what i later read in forums from to many people "dust can enter through the retractable fixed lens and get onto the sensor"!! Now that is something i absolutely don't want in a camera that costs 700 bucks!

What a shame, there goes my fav camera. My current point and shooter, an old Kodak EasyShare has the exacts same problem, eventually dust ended up on the sensor, and because the lens can't be removed to get access to the sensor and clean it it's basically game over for all such fixed lens cameras, or are there some that are well built enough to keep duct out??

The Fujifilm X70 was my next thing, similar to the Ricoh GR, but the photo quality just can't match the Ricoh GR, colors maybe a bit nicer, but sharpness is nowhere near the Ricoh.

So, am i left with no other choice than to eventually buy a camera with removable lens so i can clean the sensor if there should be any dust on it??

If so, what would be a good choice within my budget??

jcdeboever · Feb 15, 2017

useroo said:
Hello everyone, i can call myself an amateur with an artists eye in photography, with mere point-and-shoot experience.

I am trying to lift the quality of my photos by buying a new camera and spend endless hours, days, months, in fact already more or less a year doing online and in-store research on what might suit my needs and my budget.

So i'll start with the budget: around 600 Euro's plus or minus.

Body overall: pocketable (i don't mean pants pockets, but say coat pocket or a small bag, camera should be below 400 grams in weight in ready to shoot mode).

I'd like to go for a MFT or APS-C sensor size.

Not sure about lenses, fixed, removable, zoom or flat, but prefer something crisp and small in size and weight. (i mostly do landscape, macro but would also like to do wider angle indoor shots, i try to keep peoples faces out of my photos for respect of privacy, so street photography not my thing unless it's buildings and graffiti etc.)

Let me bring up some of the cameras i have found so far, but did not buy because of various reasons:

Panasonic has a few that looked real good on paper within my criteria: LX100, did not buy because a bit to bulky and has NO USB CHARGING (this turns me off quite a bit, so used to just leave the camera plugged into my lappy after uploading all photos and let it recharge via USB while i do the editing, removing a battery always triggers a reset of time and date, just to inconvenient). Next up the GX80 (or elsewhere called GX85), also a bit bulky, still in the running. There where also 2 other models from Panasonic, one with interchangable lenses one with a fixed ultra zoom lens.

Now coming to the real crux. I discovered the Ricoh GR II, and i was impressed by the crisp images even at full size viewing edge to edge. It is a pocketable size camera of reasonable weight - but it has a fixed lens, and that's what i later read in forums from to many people "dust can enter through the retractable fixed lens and get onto the sensor"!! Now that is something i absolutely don't want in a camera that costs 700 bucks!

What a shame, there goes my fav camera. My current point and shooter, an old Kodak EasyShare has the exacts same problem, eventually dust ended up on the sensor, and because the lens can't be removed to get access to the sensor and clean it it's basically game over for all such fixed lens cameras, or are there some that are well built enough to keep duct out??

The Fujifilm X70 was my next thing, similar to the Ricoh GR, but the photo quality just can't match the Ricoh GR, colors maybe a bit nicer, but sharpness is nowhere near the Ricoh.

So, am i left with no other choice than to eventually buy a camera with removable lens so i can clean the sensor if there should be any dust on it??

If so, what would be a good choice within my budget??

x70 image quality is on par with the GR from the comparisons I have seen. The GR has had a very common, dust and dirt issues, so that would be a deal breaker for me, you have to send it in for the repair. The fixed lens moves in and out to focus and it's not sealed, hence a design flaw/issue.

goodguy · Feb 15, 2017

Another recommendation for the Nikon D3300, excellent camera, modern sensor and gives you future access to Nikon's huge lens offering and its third party lenses.

useroo · Feb 16, 2017

Thanks goodguy, sure such a Nikon would be great as far as image quality and options are concerned .. (as i can see at your Flickr photostream) but look at the size of this thing, even if it was half the price it is, i can not buy anything this monstrous because i travel a lot, i mean globally, no space or weight left over for such a huge clunker plus eventual lenses unfortunately, i need something handy, one camera item plus an USB cord .. My Flickr stream useroo’s albums | Flickr

useroo · Feb 16, 2017

Hi jcdeboever, i have spent endless hours at Flickr camera search comparing endless numbers of photos taken with
A: the said Ricoh GR and GR II and
B: the Fujifilm x70
This was much easier to judge because of their fixed lenses so you never have to guess what kind of super mega lens was used to achieve especially crisp nicely colored photos like you have to with any interchangeable camera.

The Fujifil x70 output is a tick brighter and a tick richer in colors - but not even close in sharpness when you view the full size images on a large pc display - and that matters a lot for a prime lens because you want the sharpest possible image at full original size so you can crop out the part you like at original size, which, in the end, may still be bigger and better in quality than the same scene taken with some zoom lens, that's kind of how i like to work with images, no color or sharpness editing, just cropping and all or nothing otherwise.

dasmith232 · Feb 16, 2017

Have you looked at, or ruled out, the Sony a6K series? APS-C sensor (so larger), industry leading sensor, USB-charging, small but still reasonably comfortable to hold... Not as many lens options as a M4/3 system, but getting better.

jcdeboever · Feb 16, 2017

useroo said:
Hi jcdeboever, i have spent endless hours at Flickr camera search comparing endless numbers of photos taken with
A: the said Ricoh GR and GR II and
B: the Fujifilm x70
This was much easier to judge because of their fixed lenses so you never have to guess what kind of super mega lens was used to achieve especially crisp nicely colored photos like you have to with any interchangeable camera.

The Fujifil x70 output is a tick brighter and a tick richer in colors - but not even close in sharpness when you view the full size images on a large pc display - and that matters a lot for a prime lens because you want the sharpest possible image at full original size so you can crop out the part you like at original size, which, in the end, may still be bigger and better in quality than the same scene taken with some zoom lens, that's kind of how i like to work with images, no color or sharpness editing, just cropping and all or nothing otherwise.

I suppose that committing the AA filter in the GR would probably help the detail out. If your into pixel peeping than I guess you may have to live with the dirt issue.

Designer · Feb 16, 2017

A little over your stated budget:

http://thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-point-and-shoot-camera/

table1349 · Feb 16, 2017

useroo said:
Hi jcdeboever, i have spent endless hours at Flickr camera search comparing endless numbers of photos taken with
A: the said Ricoh GR and GR II and
B: the Fujifilm x70
This was much easier to judge because of their fixed lenses so you never have to guess what kind of super mega lens was used to achieve especially crisp nicely colored photos like you have to with any interchangeable camera.

The Fujifil x70 output is a tick brighter and a tick richer in colors - but not even close in sharpness when you view the full size images on a large pc display - and that matters a lot for a prime lens because you want the sharpest possible image at full original size so you can crop out the part you like at original size, which, in the end, may still be bigger and better in quality than the same scene taken with some zoom lens, that's kind of how i like to work with images, no color or sharpness editing, just cropping and all or nothing otherwise.

Ahhh..........suppositions that lead you down a sordid path. The quality of the photographer AND the quality of the Post Processing will skewer your perceptions. When it comes to photography in many ways you can make a silk purse out of a sows ear.

The only real way to tell is to personally use the cameras in question and judge for yourself.

Derrel · Feb 17, 2017

The ONLY people who bought the Rocoh GR series cameras were hardcore shooters. It is **NOT** the camera of the P&S digital crowd. If ever there were a digital camera that attracted almost totally, exclusively serious, hardcore SHOOTERS, it was the GR series models.

Fuji has had issues with their various sensors and Adobe raw decoder software, but the SOOC JPEGs and color palette Fuji creates makes images look pretty good, but you're right, some of the X-trans Fuji models had low resolution images compared to traditional Bayer array cameras of similar MP counts.

As griph mentions, the ONLY way to really tell is to use a camera yourself. Look at the Ricoh GR limitations, lens-wise. But please, realize something: Ricoh GR and GR II cameras were the darlings of hardcore shooters! People who LIKE a 28mmE-view lens? Almost all are street shooter types. People who really, really, really know HOW to shoot a semi-wide camera like the GR, and how to leverage a 28mm equivalent angle lens!

greybeard · Feb 17, 2017

I have a Sony A6000 which is very similar to the A6300 and A6500. It fits in my coat pocket, has interchangeable lenses, is APS-C format, and has great IQ. I have a small bag which I carry a Nissin i40 flash and a 55-210 extra lens. I think the A6000 with the 16-55 f/3.5-5.6 is also in your price range.

useroo · Feb 18, 2017

Thanks greybeard and dasmith232, yes, the Sony A6000 has been in my sights already for a while ... and somehow i am afraid i'll keep on observing Sony cameras until they are no longer produced, and i can't say exactly why, since they produce digital cameras i always checked them out - but never felt like buying one because there always was this or that little nag i did not like.
Panasonic, Nikon, Fuji, Pentax and maybe Olympus i can see a bit better.

useroo · Feb 18, 2017

Yes Derrel, i noticed that most photos declared as taken by either of the 2 Ricoh GR's on Flickr camera search where .. well, let's say not from the most gorgeous side of nature and just to often also in b/w (color photography for homeless people

??
Jokes aside, a bit of a shame your photos at pbase are not categorized by camera and lens, but than again, i probably have reached the end of the rope with my pixel peeping on Flickr to determine which camera takes the best pics - because as soon as editing and different lenses come into play the camera body aspect alone just can't be determined by looking at photos of strangers.....

useroo · Feb 18, 2017

Thanks Desgner.
that Lumix LX10 is nowever in a store here in Budapest HU, only the various other ones, mostly a bit dated models or those with slightly smaller sensors like the ... hmm, wait a moment, with all the confusing names Panasonic uses, could it be that the LX10 is actually the LX 15 around here - this one i could get, but i have read a dozen reviews in 2 different languages and they where not flattering, the LX100 and TZ100 or the nice and small GM5 or the heavy GX 80 seem to be within my budget from Panasonic, each with this or that minus point

Derrel · Feb 18, 2017

useroo said:
Yes Derrel, i noticed that most photos declared as taken by either of the 2 Ricoh GR's on Flickr camera search where .. well, let's say not from the most gorgeous side of nature and just to often also in b/w (color photography for homeless people ??
Jokes aside, a bit of a shame your photos at pbase are not categorized by camera and lens, but than again, i probably have reached the end of the rope with my pixel peeping on Flickr to determine which camera takes the best pics - because as soon as editing and different lenses come into play the camera body aspect alone just can't be determined by looking at photos of strangers.....

I've let pBase slide for the past two years now. I never have categorized images by camera nor by lens. Because the photographer and his/her software and his/her lighting and subject matter make the biggest influence on the final images. If you've actually spent the better part of a year pixel-peeping, YOU likely now more than almost anybody here, would know or suspect very strongly, which camera might be best for YOU.

I kind of like the looks of the new high-end Sony cameras with the big zoom and the 1-inch sensor. To me, the 28-200mm "e-quivalent zoom range", but the deeper DOF the smaller sensor delivers, makes a lot of sense. The Canon PowerShot G-series cams are nice too: I like the top-mounted control layout of the newer models. I had the FIRST 10x optical zoom, OS Panasonic Lumix P&S a decade ago...nice range on the zoom, but overall quality only so-so. I think you could probably make a good, solid choice, better than all of us combined. I'm not that "up on" small cameras these days.