Do/would you show/send unedited images?

[mmaria]

In your case, I simply wouldn't do it. If she persists to bug you about it, invite her over to view the photos. Highlight all the ones you didn't want her to see, and let her watch as you hit the "Delete" key.

lol

 

[mmaria]

ok... I have a question for portrait photographers... it might not be related that much with my op but $ have been mentioned and I wonder how much is the price for a portrait session in USA and Canada, let's say 10 pictures per session?

 

[pixmedic]

ok... I have a question for portrait photographers... it might not be related that much with my op but $ have been mentioned and I wonder how much is the price for a portrait session in USA and Canada, let's say 10 pictures per session?

Our portraits for 1-2 people start at $200 which include up to 10 pictures.

We just shot a wedding the other weekend. Gave the bride and groom a 2-3 week turn around time. (Which is in the contract)
3 days later the bride is emailing us wanting to know when the pictures will be finished. After the wife tells her 2-3 weeks, the groom calls a few days later asking the same thing. The next day, the bride emails asking if she can have all the unedited files right away. The answer was no. (Also in our contract) bride was not happy.
Here's the part where I can't stress enough to have a proper contract that has been looked over by the appropriate lawyer...
The bride is an attorney working for a very large firm with offices covering much of central and south florida.

We referred her back to the contract for the delivery time of the photos, and not giving out unedited photos/raw files.

She emailed us back 2 days later saying she would wait for the pictures to be finished in 2 weeks.

The decision to give out what files to what people is up to you. I would hand over raw files for the right price.
Just make sure if your not going to give someone everything the want for free, that you have something legally binding on writing. You never know who you are going to do work for.

 

[sabbath999]

showing unedited images to the clients and to the editors can't be the same

and I think vast majority of photographers wouldn't mind showing other photographers their unedited work because we understand the mater and know the whole process

Seriously? I don't buy it, not even a little.

With all due respect, if one's shots suck enough that they can't show somebody an unedited image then the photographer should probably start working on his or her craft a bit more.

Now, allowing them a COPY of an unedited image? No, because those can get out.

If you are good, and if a client hires you because of your body of work, part of what they are hiring you for is your processing skill... they know this... this isn't 1972, they know that the final images will go through post processing to remove imperfections, smooth skin, whatever...

When I shoot a model, I always tell him or her EXACTLY what I plan to do with the pictures... I ask them (if they have a prominent feature like a mole) if that's something they like or if they want it to go away.

I shot a model a couple of weeks ago who had just chipped her front tooth and the appointment to get it fixed was the monday after the shoot... I told her I would just fix it in post, and I showed her the shots as they came up... she was happy with them although the tooth bothered her (the dentist did a great job, I saw her a couple of days ago, you can't tell it was broken).

I think transparency and honesty adds a complete level of service to a business... tell them what you are doing, say "x percent of my job comes after the photo is taken" and just be strait up about it. They know you are PP'ing it, they expect it, so why hide and pretend?

 

[DB_Cro]

If someone asks for unedited images, I say that I shoot RAW (and I really do) and that they can't even see the image until I process it without specialized software.
That usually ends it.

I ja fotkam samo RAW i objasnim im sve kao ti ali ne pali uvijek

I use the same explanation but it doesn't work every time.

Oh, hello there! <3

ok... I have a question for portrait photographers... it might not be related that much with my op but $ have been mentioned and I wonder how much is the price for a portrait session in USA and Canada, let's say 10 pictures per session?

You really don't want to see those numbers and compare them..

 

[Derrel]

SNIP...they want all the pictures because they're taken with a good camera and they usually don't have access to that kind of camera. Good camera=good pictures, for them

That does seem to be an attitude that MANY people hold. This goes way ,way back I think. It is something to consider.

 

[mmaria]

ok... I have a question for portrait photographers... it might not be related that much with my op but $ have been mentioned and I wonder how much is the price for a portrait session in USA and Canada, let's say 10 pictures per session?

Our portraits for 1-2 people start at $200 which include up to 10 pictures.

We just shot a wedding the other weekend. Gave the bride and groom a 2-3 week turn around time. (Which is in the contract)
3 days later the bride is emailing us wanting to know when the pictures will be finished. After the wife tells her 2-3 weeks, the groom calls a few days later asking the same thing. The next day, the bride emails asking if she can have all the unedited files right away. The answer was no. (Also in our contract) bride was not happy.
Here's the part where I can't stress enough to have a proper contract that has been looked over by the appropriate lawyer...
The bride is an attorney working for a very large firm with offices covering much of central and south florida.

We referred her back to the contract for the delivery time of the photos, and not giving out unedited photos/raw files.

She emailed us back 2 days later saying she would wait for the pictures to be finished in 2 weeks.

The decision to give out what files to what people is up to you. I would hand over raw files for the right price.
Just make sure if your not going to give someone everything the want for free, that you have something legally binding on writing. You never know who you are going to do work for.

thank you for telling me all this Jason

 

[mmaria]

showing unedited images to the clients and to the editors can't be the same

and I think vast majority of photographers wouldn't mind showing other photographers their unedited work because we understand the mater and know the whole process

Seriously? I don't buy it, not even a little.

With all due respect, if one's shots suck enough that they can't show somebody an unedited image then the photographer should probably start working on his or her craft a bit more.

I totally agree with you on this

If you are good, and if a client hires you because of your body of work, part of what they are hiring you for is your processing skill... they know this... this isn't 1972, they know that the final images will go through post processing to remove imperfections, smooth skin, whatever...

well I don't entirely agree with this.
Not everyone expects or knows about post processing.... but who are we talking about? Ordinary people/ neighbor/parents who want an ordinary portrait taken of them? High end clients/actors/models/average teenager obsessed with their selfies and filters on their phone who are very well aware that every picture goes trough Photoshop and on the other hand teenagers who aren't really aware how much the pictures in magazines are photoshoped?
Not everyone have an idea what "editing" "photoshop" means. I just recently got a message on my fb page: "I'm fascinated by your photography... blah blah... What camera you're shooting with?" The camera is most important to them ( I speak for the people I worked with, so , it's just my experience... yours might be different)

When I shoot a model, I always tell him or her EXACTLY what I plan to do with the pictures... I ask them (if they have a prominent feature like a mole) if that's something they like or if they want it to go away.
I think transparency and honesty adds a complete level of service to a business... tell them what you are doing, say "x percent of my job comes after the photo is taken" and just be strait up about it. They know you are PP'ing it, they expect it, so why hide and pretend?

I tell everything... and I really mean every little thing that can be important to the person I'm taking pictures of. I wouldn't like a photographer I let to shoot me surprise me with anything... People I shoot are aware of what kind of photography they expect to get from me and I consult them about every thing I would like to do.

 

[Trever1t]

People always ask me to show them images in camera while I'm shooting them. Sometimes I show them (even if they don't ask me) one image or two because I want them to relax more when they see that they look good (this is while I'm shooting them, on the back of my camera that is)

But.. I won't send unedited images.

I explain everyone that I won't give them unedited images and I nicely explain reasons for it. I usually say at the beginning of the shoot that they will hear/see me click numerous times but that I will delete most of those images because I made mistake with the settings, or they closed their eyes etc. and they know how many images will get from me.

Anyway, after they get edited images most of people say "Oh, there are certainly more of them, never mind they're not edited, just give/send me all"

One girl is particularly persistent with her "demanding" unedited photos and I'm going out of patience, really. Last night I explained her again (for the fourth time I think) that I won't do that.. but she doesn't hear me.

I'm curious, do/would you show people/clients unedited pictures?

On a TF shoot I never give unedited images. Like you, I'll show my models killer shots as we work, it does help relax the model and inspire. I explain that my work is what it is because I alone select which images I edit and release for public view. There's no debate.

Now a paying client I'll allow to view and select their favorites to edit. They're paying and I won't use for public view unless with permission.

 

[sabbath999]

I was just thinking "this is such a digital conversation..."

The other day I was shooting a model on film (she wanted a totally different look, so I got out the 6x7 and shot it on Portra 160)... she asked if she could see the pictures and I handed her a shot roll of film. She looked at it dumbfounded.

"Well," I said, "you wanted something different... so this is different..."

She ended up very pleased with the shots. Shooting large aperture film just gives an entirely different look than shooting digital, there's a certain "oomph" you don't get digitally. Can't really explain it.

 

[hopdaddy]

Comparing film to digital.. The preview on the back of the camera is a "In camera " processed JEPG ?
So wouldn't that be the same ,as having film processed in a lab where you have no input ? So with that in mind ,I will show some ,(one or two ) just so they can get excited and more enjoy the shoot.
As for giving them unedited files ,NO ! They came to me ,wanting MY work ,and that is what they will receive .We should know more as to what makes a Quality photograph, then they do ,and the customer can and will destroy your good work .

 

[Jim Walczak]

Let me begin by saying here that I haven't read any of the other responses, so please forgive me if I add anything terribly redundant. Likewise, these are, as always, just my own personal opinions.

To answer the OP's question directly, as a general rule, -NO-, I will NOT show people unedited images. There are VERY RARE exceptions...for a recent shoot, I did in fact provide the client with ALL the images from the shoot, however in this case "the client" was actually one of my former college professors...specifically one of my digital art professors, including my Photoshop teacher. In this very specific case, I did feel comfortable with the person seeing the "unfinished work", as I -know- said person not only has the experience and expertise to judge the work fairly (not to mention pick out some shots I may have over-looked), but I also wanted this particular person to have the option of editing the work if they choose. That said however, in MOST cases, they client will ONLY see the finished (or semi finished) images I provide. As with the days of film, depending on the commission, the contract, the number of prints requested, etc., I will usually provide the client with a "contact sheet"...a print out of various images that, at the very least have been processed thru Camera RAW with fairly basic adjustments. Once the client had decided which prints they want (whether the prints are physical, as with photo paper, or virtual, such as jpgs or pngs to use on a website), then I will put the finish on those images to provide for delivery.

As I've said elsewhere, in my mind photography is a process...what you do at the camera is only PART of that process. What I do in an image editing program after the image is shot is JUST AS IMPORTANT as what I did with the camera. It's NOT about making mistakes (NEVER tell the client you've shot multiple images because you "made a mistake"), it's about providing the client with the best options possible and in my mind, those options including image processing.

To use an example here, let's assume that I'm shooting a local "band". Let's say that said band has retained my services as they need some shots for either their website or even an album (CD) cover and the agreement was for me to provide 20 jpg images for said purpose (such details would ABSOLUTELY be included in the contract). When I go to their gig on the prearranged Saturday night, I may shoot as many as 80 to 100 pics OR MORE, depending on any specific shots they have requested (back stage shots? shots of the crowd? shots of the venue or marquis?) and depending on how long they have retained my services for (unless other specific arrangements have been made, I do typically charge BY THE HOUR). I will often allow the client to take a peek at a few select shots on the camera, if nothing else to put the client's mind at ease that they're getting their money's worth, however I do NOT usually tell the client how many shots I've taken in a given shoot. In my mind, even if I had to shoot 200 images to get those 20, it's irrelevant AS LONG as I'm able to provide those 20 shots (not that it should generally take that many shots, but you get the point). Once I feel I've gotten the needed shots and/or once the time clock has ticked down (LOL), I'll pack up my gear and head home. The next day (usually...give or take the confines of the contract), I sit down, weed out the bad shots, then do some rough initial adjustments (Camera RAW, perhaps a crop here and there, etc) to (hopefully) provide a contact sheet with 30 - 40 shots to choose from. FOR MYSELF this is important...even though the contract may be to provide only 20 prints, I've often found that by providing the client with some additional options, they may be willing to revise the contract and pony up some extra cash for a few more prints..in fact I'll often include such options in the contract itself ("additional 8x10 prints available for $20 each" or something to that effect). Once the client has selected the shots they want from the contact sheet, I will go ahead and put the finishing touches on said images, with any remainder of payment due on delivery (I will usually charge an up front fee for my services depending on the client and the job...$50 up front, with the remainder due on delivery). I do try to be as flexible as I can and obviously every situation and client is different, however that's pretty much my base modus operandi.

Now you should have noticed the repeated use of the word "contract". At the risk of being horribly blunt, if you're doing paid work for others and you're working without a contract, you're a complete fool! In the case of "One girl is particularly persistent with her "demanding" unedited photos...", you can simply pull out the contract and clearly show that no such stipulation was included in the contract THAT SHE SIGNED. While this obviously applies to MORE than just photography and while I'm sure it's going to sound terribly jaded, remember this one simple fact; PEOPLE SUCK! It's nice to believe that all people are good-natured and capable of doing business with little more than a "gentleman's handshake", unfortunately the reality is often quite the opposite....sooner or later you WILL run into clients who are demanding, if not totally unreasonable. You need to make it clear that unless it is otherwise specifically stipulated in the contract, that the client has no artistic say in how YOUR work is completed. You were hired to provide a service and the definition of that service should be clearly outlined in the contract. Consider this (and feel free to use it to illustrate the point to the girl in question); you wouldn't expect to walk into a JC Penny Portrait Studio and expect to have ANY creative control over how the images are processed. You go in (or take your kid in), you'll probably sign some form of contract or release, pose for the shots (just like a model) and pay at the cash register when you receive your prints. It's a business...period. Likewise a contract should also stipulate exactly HOW the images you shot are to be used, particularly regarding issues involving copyright and such. In nutshell legal definitions, unless otherwise stated in the contract, YOU retain ownership of the images shot. For example, if you shot a model and in a hypothetical situation, that model should become famous, you do NOT want to see your work used in a multi million dollar ad campaign up on billboards for Walmarts or something, if you only got a measly $50 for the image. "Royalties" should be an expected part of the business! Obviously this doesn't happen with the average client and but the POTENTIAL is there. Certainly there are business folk far better versed in all of this than I am (and obviously this is what a good lawyer is for as well), however the bottom line is this - ALWAYS cover your own ass!

In other words, whether or not you show your unfinished work to a given client usually depends on the conditions you set forth when your services are initially retained. In most cases, I don't advise it, however it's really up to you. Just make sure that both you and your clients are aware of any such conditions (preferably in writing) ahead of time so you don't end up with the proverbial can of worms.



Again, while again these are just my own personal opinions and I do hope they will be considered as such, in this case do keep in mind that I'm NOT a lawyer or legal counselor...when it doubt, consult your local bar association on such matters.

 

[petrochemist]

I don't mind showing unedited pictures, but would probably only do so on the camera back, or as thumbnails. This would generally either be before I edited any or if they've agreed to buy some extra prints and wanted to select the poses. I wouldn't normally allow them to have any.

 

[paigew]

I never show unedited images and rarely back of the camera. My clients pay me for the finished product and that is what they get & see [emoji4]. My sessions are $750 for all files mini sessions are $400 for 10

 

[pgriz]

Just came across this one... another thread I missed while being away from TPF.

If you were a chef, and someone wanted to see the "before", what would you show them, the ingredient list? Or if you were a painter, then a set of paints and a blank canvas? If you were a writer, would you show your rough drafts? Pretty sure it would be "no" in each case. As a photographer, you show the final version after you've finished your work on it. Unless you're doing family snaps and no processing - then sure, show them what the camera recorded. But if you're producing your work, using your skill and eye, your artistic judgement of what to frame and how to present your vision, then they have to wait to see the end result.