Do you ever reject clients?

[Robin Usagani]

If it is a wedding, didnt you have a meeting with them prior to the wedding to show your portfolio? By then you have a feeling what they like and dont like.

 

[aw2633]

If it is a wedding, didnt you have a meeting with them prior to the wedding to show your portfolio? By then you have a feeling what they like and dont like.

This was an engagement session and yes, she saw my portfolio and said she loved it. Her email this morning caught me off guard since her images are on par with my portfolio.

 

[KmH]

Your contract should have language that covers this kind of situation, essentially saying: the client has seen your portoflio, is familiar with your editing style, and that image selection and editing are at at your sole discretion.

It is essential to qualify clients, however, once the contract is signed you are committed.

As Mike said, your pricing is a very effective way of qualifying your clients.

When your pricing is low, the client does not value your work nor your time, because apparently you don't either.

 

[IlSan]

First off - fully agree with the pricing.
As long as the price resembles the "budget" category, then that is exactly what the clients are looking for that come to you. They want a relatively cheap photographer who will do a few photos for them in the style that they like.

Think about this - if you charged, I dunno, 2000 for a wedding people would take a lot more time studying your work as they are forking out a lot more money - and we all know, when it gets to money people tend to pay attention.

Yes, putting all this into a contract beforehand would help greatly, and you can then always refer back to the contract in case of disputes.

What I generally do is, I meet the potential client and have a coffee / tea. During this initial meeting I will bring some of my material along (specific to what the customer is looking for) and show them what style I shoot / edit. If they like what they see there, excellent - we go forward. If they do not like it, I either ask them to pass some samples along (only if I really want to work with them - that is a vibe thing, surely...) or refer them to a colleague. In my experience, never leave them hanging...always have a back up plan as this shows the customer that you are customer service oriented.

However, in this particular case - yeah, just gotta grind your teeth, smile and re-edit the way she wants...

 

[aw2633]

First off - fully agree with the pricing.
As long as the price resembles the "budget" category, then that is exactly what the clients are looking for that come to you. They want a relatively cheap photographer who will do a few photos for them in the style that they like.

Think about this - if you charged, I dunno, 2000 for a wedding people would take a lot more time studying your work as they are forking out a lot more money - and we all know, when it gets to money people tend to pay attention.

Yes, putting all this into a contract beforehand would help greatly, and you can then always refer back to the contract in case of disputes.

What I generally do is, I meet the potential client and have a coffee / tea. During this initial meeting I will bring some of my material along (specific to what the customer is looking for) and show them what style I shoot / edit. If they like what they see there, excellent - we go forward. If they do not like it, I either ask them to pass some samples along (only if I really want to work with them - that is a vibe thing, surely...) or refer them to a colleague. In my experience, never leave them hanging...always have a back up plan as this shows the customer that you are customer service oriented.

However, in this particular case - yeah, just gotta grind your teeth, smile and re-edit the way she wants...

I understand what you mean by pricing- and you're right about paying attention to the work. I'm uncomfortable charging 2k until I have a little more experience. I shot a wedding last weekend and dealt with my first rogue family member: An over zealous aunt who felt her Nikon L22 point and shoot meant she was the lead photographer. First time having to assert myself.


Once I shoot a few more weddings I will raise my prices and get out of the "budget category"- until then I will my grit my teeth

 

[aw2633]

When your pricing is low, the client does not value your work nor your time, because apparently you don't either.

In my experience, you build things from the ground up. I just got finished laying a solid foundation. But hey, if you have the ability to start at higher levels good for you. I like having something to look forward to

 

[Heck]

I don't make money with my camera but in my business I have banned, thrown out and sometimes called the cops on customers. I often lie to some just to get rid of them. I find that having a successful business is not getting all the customers but getting and keeping the right customers.

 

[KmH]

When your pricing is low, the client does not value your work nor your time, because apparently you don't either.

In my experience, you build things from the ground up. I just got finished laying a solid foundation. But hey, if you have the ability to start at higher levels good for you. I like having something to look forward to

Have you ever heard of discounts?

It is WAY easier to lower prices than to raise them.

 

[aw2633]

When your pricing is low, the client does not value your work nor your time, because apparently you don't either.

In my experience, you build things from the ground up. I just got finished laying a solid foundation. But hey, if you have the ability to start at higher levels good for you. I like having something to look forward to

Have you ever heard of discounts?

It is WAY easier to lower prices than to raise them.

I recently raised my prices and haven't encountered any issues. As you gain experience and become better people are willing to pay more. Would you hire a brand new construction company with minimal experience for the same price you could hire a company with lots of experience and an established reputation?

The photographer I hired for my own wedding charged 1500 for six hours of coverage- today people pay her 3k for the same coverage. People are paying it because she has gotten better. My wedding pictures were good, but she lacked experience handling people and different situations. Judging by her reviews, she found her stride. Wedding photography isn't just about good pictures, you have to be able to work with people effectively and the only way you learn is by doing it.

So lets agree to disagree. Your business model works for you, mine works for me.

 

[magkelly]

Not as a photographer but I've worked practically all my life in an industry where difficult and demanding people are par for the course. I'm all for accommodating them if I can reasonably but there's always that one person who has to be a total PITA no matter what and there's little you can do about it except smile, do whatever it is they want you to do if possible, and get them done and out the door as fast as you can.

I'm not saying I always do because some people are just plain nuts when it comes to what they want and how much they want to pay for it, and if they are THAT bad, I'm just going to show them the door regardless, but sometimes if you can stand to do it it's just more practical and less time consuming to let them just have their way than it is to stand there arguing with them over it.

Also, you never know sometimes even if it does make you grit your teeth working with them it does turn out to be a good thing. I've more than once had some very difficult people send other not so difficult people my way just because I was willing to be polite and to try to accommodate them and I've also had people come and seek me out because they heard I was willing to actually deal with so and so and could apparently do it with a bit of grace and a real smile.

Difficult people are just something you have to deal with whenever you do any kind of business. That doesn't mean you have to seek them out, but it's pretty much inevitable that no matter what type of work you do you're going to run into a "Mr/Ms Impossible" from time to time.

It does seem like weddings bring out the worst in some people though. I've seen perfectly lovely people turn into complete monsters when it comes to their wedding and anything related to it. It's a crazy industry for everyone involved. If you're not extremely flexible and capable of being cool as ice 99% of the time it's a very hard industry to work in. If you don't have a really strong backbone, you're in real trouble.

 

[ConcretePicture]

It is OK to say NO. If you think that your shoot will not go well, walk away while still on good terms. If you agree to the job, do it and do it well - even if it takes 10x longer and you lose money/time on it. I have learned the hard way that the "gut feeling" is worth listening too. That gut is usually right, especially when it comes to food.
At least this experience should increase your future pay, assuming your rates are directly proportional to your experience.

 

[JodieO]

Lesser experience should NOT be reflected in your prices...

EXACTLY! People who charge little are dragging the industry down.

Take the emotions out of it.

Pricing is black and white. It's simple business management 101. You price for your time and what it takes to turn a decent profit that will sustain your business and keep it afloat. That has nothing to do with your experience. You are a BUSINESS OWNER, and business owners need to act like business owners.

Nothing like all the people that charge $250 and give away all the digital negatives after they have spent hours editing them. Can you say working for $3/hour (after you take expenses, etc. out)? NO THANKS. You can work at starbucks for much more. You price as a BUSINESS OWNER, not a minimum wage employee and definitely not less than minimum wage, wth? Doesn't matter if you are new or not. It's about business management.

$2,000 is nothing for a wedding when you really break down expenses, time, etc.

My average client sales are $2,000-$3,000 just for 2-hour child or baby portrait sessions, and I'm not rolling in extra money. $2,000 to spend hours at a wedding and hours editing, and hours with administration, phone calls, emails, etc. is really not much when you really look at it.

 

[IlSan]

Quote: Originally Posted by IlSan
First off - fully agree with the pricing.
As long as the price resembles the "budget" category, then that is exactly what the clients are looking for that come to you. They want a relatively cheap photographer who will do a few photos for them in the style that they like.

Think about this - if you charged, I dunno, 2000 for a wedding people would take a lot more time studying your work as they are forking out a lot more money - and we all know, when it gets to money people tend to pay attention.

Yes, putting all this into a contract beforehand would help greatly, and you can then always refer back to the contract in case of disputes.

What I generally do is, I meet the potential client and have a coffee / tea. During this initial meeting I will bring some of my material along (specific to what the customer is looking for) and show them what style I shoot / edit. If they like what they see there, excellent - we go forward. If they do not like it, I either ask them to pass some samples along (only if I really want to work with them - that is a vibe thing, surely...) or refer them to a colleague. In my experience, never leave them hanging...always have a back up plan as this shows the customer that you are customer service oriented.

However, in this particular case - yeah, just gotta grind your teeth, smile and re-edit the way she wants...




I understand what you mean by pricing- and you're right about paying attention to the work. I'm uncomfortable charging 2k until I have a little more experience. I shot a wedding last weekend and dealt with my first rogue family member: An over zealous aunt who felt her Nikon L22 point and shoot meant she was the lead photographer. First time having to assert myself.


Once I shoot a few more weddings I will raise my prices and get out of the "budget category"- until then I will my grit my teeth

Well, of course you need to build up a portfolio, to show to potential clients what you are able to do...but (yes, there is always a but) once you place yourself in the budget category, it is extremly hard to get out of it. Sure, it does happen to a few, but most people I have met, that started there, ended there, pretty much.
And - experience is one thing.
As an example - the first ever fashion shoot I did back in London I had hardly any idea about the genre. I had shot a few lions, elephants and the odd crocodile, and so on - had my fair share of landscape photography, but no clue what to do about studio lighting, posing...but, I dod not offer them any discount. Instead, I teamed up with a colleague, who had a loooot more experience than me, made a deal that he'd get 70%, me 30%, and watched him work.
Today, a studio session would cost a client around USD 4000, and I'm nicely booked And trust me, I still have a ton to learn.
But the moment you sell short, may it be lack of experience, uncertainty, etc...it get's hard to get back up there, were you can make a living on photography.
Just my own experience here...

Well, people like the aunt, you will encounter them where-ever you go. I generally smile at them, think my part (which is seldomly good) and only really say something if they are getting in my way

 

[smokinphoto]

Just like JD said earlier, the customer is not always right... oftentimes they are poorly informed folks who understand very little about the goods/services they are purchasing from you. I would just try to end it on a good note and come up with a solution that is mutually agreed upon by both parties.