Every Photographer needs to watch this

Discussion in 'Off Topic Chat' started by jsorrien, Feb 23, 2010.

  1. jsorrien

    jsorrien TPF Noob!

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  2. skieur

    skieur TPF Noob!

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    I am amazed that you can supposedly be arrested for "anti-social behaviour" in England, since the police can construe almost any behaviour as being "anti-social".

    It also contradicts the right to privacy, freedom from unlawful detention and freedom of movement, since no one should be intimidated into a choice between being arrested and providing personal information.

    skieur
     
  3. PhotoXopher

    PhotoXopher TPF Noob!

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    From what I saw they were pressing their luck, just give them your name and address - big frickin' deal. It's almost like he wanted to get arrested so he could film it.

    Without knowing the other side, and the manner in which it was conducting himself (conveniently NOT videotaped) it's hard to pick a side on this one.

    The how he was acting makes me suspicious as well.

    I guess I'd make a bad cop too.
     
  4. pharmakon

    pharmakon TPF Noob!

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    I kinda see both sides as well. I think it's messed up that the police can just tell you that you give your information or you are going to be arrested, but at the same time the fact that he was so adamently refusing to give basic contact information would just make him look all the more suspicious. But if you give it then what? are you flagged for suspiscous behaviour indefinately?

    Terrorism may not be defeating our governments, but it seems that it is slowly stealing the rights and freedoms of our citizens. It took me 2 hours to get through TSA screening last week, for a domestic flight. I ended up leaving some of my photo gear at home because I was concerned about what flack I would get trying to bring flash triggers in my carry-on. The last thing I wanted was some over inflated security officer to pull me in for questioning about having a "detonator" in my bags. Looks like I'm already giving up. :sad anim:
     
  5. skieur

    skieur TPF Noob!

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    Legally, you do not have to provide any sort of ID, when stopped by police. They can ask for it, but you are not obliged to provide it. This was admitted by a police veteran with more than 30 years experience on video.

    As a matter of fact, being stopped by the police for no legal reason is illegal, and part of a police state, not a democracy. Unlawfult detension is illegal as well and in New York that has resulted in $30,000 successful lawsuits against transit police.

    So, the gentleman was standing up for his rights and I would recommend that he follow up with a civil suit against the police.

    skieur
     
  6. Dominantly

    Dominantly TPF Noob!

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    Not true.

    It is Illegal to refuse to show identification to a police officer if they stop you. They may also detain you for a short period of time, but have to release you unless charges are brought against you.
     
  7. JohnMF

    JohnMF TPF Noob!

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    part of the problem is thicko's not understanding what it is exactly that they're trying enforce, or if it needs enforcing at all.

    Good on the guy for standing up for himself, and good on the press for reporting it. Stupid ideas, and stupid people, need to be challenged.
     
  8. skieur

    skieur TPF Noob!

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    You are incorrect. You need to show identification ONLY if you are driving an automobile or after you have been arrested and charged. They CANNOT detain you without REASONABLE cause and "anti-social" behaviour is certainly NOT reasonable cause.

    skieur
     
  9. PhotoXopher

    PhotoXopher TPF Noob!

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    This could vary by country, correct?

    Did they ask for ID? I thought they just asked for a name and address to write down. I got kind of bored with him asking if he was going to be detained so it's possible I missed it.
     
  10. Dominantly

    Dominantly TPF Noob!

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    How are you going to tell me I'm incorrect when you don't even live in this country?

    I hate to burst your bubble, but I AM correct.
    You are mixing Reasonable Suspicion and Probable Cause.
    FACT: Police may stop you and search you WITHOUT probable cause. They may conduct a search of the outside of your clothing (PAT Down) for their safety, if they feel a weapon, they may remove it, if they feel what may be contraband, they may not remove it. All the officer needs is reasonable suspicion that the person has committed, is committing, or is about to commit a crime. They may also temporarily detain you in their vehicles. All based on Reasonable Suspicion...

    Terry v. Ohio- 1968
    The US Supreme Court ruled it was NOT a violation of the 4th amendment, setting the standard for the "Terry Stop".
     
  11. skieur

    skieur TPF Noob!

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    Basic rights do not vary much in western democracies. They have no right to even ask for a name and address on the street. In the US many state laws that allowed this were struck down by the Supreme Court.

    skieur
     
  12. skieur

    skieur TPF Noob!

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    To burst your bubble, you are not in the UK where the video originated, or in Canada that has a similar legal history and your views are off base for the US as well.

    Even reasonable suspicion cannot be stretched to the normal activities of a street photographer. Moreover in England, where the video took place, there is no gun mentality like in the US, therefore even less reasonable cause for suspicion.

    Now, please.... a reasonable suspicion that a street phtographer is going to committ some act of terrorism...:lol::lol::lol: Surely even americans cannot be that paranoid or lacking in common sense.

    skieur
     

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