Facebook image theft

Discussion in 'Photographic Discussions' started by Overread, Feb 16, 2009.

  1. Overread

    Overread has a hat around here somewhere Staff Member Supporting Member

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    Putting this up here in disucssions as this ties in directly with image theft in modern times on the net

    If Facebooks original image rights were nothing special - claiming ownership for all uploaded content until you deleted it from their site - at which point rights reverted to you again - they have now changed things for the worst (For the public)

    British Journal of Photography - Facebook asserts perpetual rights on uploaded photos

    On Facebook, People Own and Control Their Information | Facebook
    In short they say that they own your copywrite materail now - and for ever if it arrives on their networking service. They say it will never be used outside of facebook, but they have left that door very open for themselves to change their minds if they choose to (oh and they don't have to tell you they just do it)

    for a slightly amusing (though risky) assessment (risky will appear at some point - I just know it will ;)) read here:
    Amateur Photographer & What Digital Camera: Get your snaps off Facebook!
    ps - do spread the image around - the more that take it up the more facebook will have to listen
     
  2. JerryPH

    JerryPH No longer a newbie, moving up!

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    Almost... if you read their "rules", they own everything... including what is on their backups and archives. If they or you delete it from facebook, the rights don't come back to you, it stays theirs pretty much as long as they have backups of it... in other words, you've lost your rights to your pics forever.

    Yes, I have a facebook account (out of necessity, trust me, I loathe the service) but I won't put one single picture there, hell, not even an avatar! I don't deal with thieves and extortionists on any level and I will not give them the chance to abuse me in any manner.
     
  3. Overread

    Overread has a hat around here somewhere Staff Member Supporting Member

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    yep it was their old rules that returned rights to you upon deletion from the system - the change is to remove that clause.
    and yes I keep an account as well (its a handy self updating address book!)
     
  4. Garbz

    Garbz No longer a newbie, moving up!

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    They can have the rights to my drunken out of focus profile picture of me pulling a funny face.

    If they can somehow make a profit from it then I could only congratulate them.
     
  5. Overread

    Overread has a hat around here somewhere Staff Member Supporting Member

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    I wonder - will you say the same when its your drunken face on the next national anti drugs campaign poster?
     
  6. JerryPH

    JerryPH No longer a newbie, moving up!

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    I wonder how they can do that... and in all openness get away with it?
     
  7. Overread

    Overread has a hat around here somewhere Staff Member Supporting Member

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    the TC? well ask yourself how many members of the service actually read the TC fully and clearly (and understand it all). Heck since noticing the Photobucket TC I have met several photographers who have missed it when they signed up for the service.
    So with that and the very quiet announcment of the change I think very few people would notice it.
    They would only notice when they see their image somewhere and then they have no leg to stand on - they agreed to the TC when they signed up. Legally they can't do anything
     
  8. jstuedle

    jstuedle No longer a newbie, moving up!

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    There is a movement to liberalize the copyright laws and give the public more and more access to our work. I expect to see more of our Copy-Rights to be eroded along with other rights in the near future. The digital revolution enables access of everything from our images to our medical records. Nothing is sacred. Anything that can be stored on a remote server can be accessed by any determined soul. Be they a hacker, corporation for profit or government bureaucrat.
     
  9. invisible

    invisible Been spending a lot of time on here!

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    I don't like Facebook at all. That being said, I don't think the clause is there for Facebook to abuse their users freely but likely to protect themselves. Against what? I can't possibly know, but I would assume it has to do with a problem that Facebook (or another monster website) had in the past.

    I can't imagine a scenario in which Facebook would profit or otherwise utilize their users' images for anything. As astute as the legal team at Facebook probably is, they are definitely aware that a class action would cost the company millions of dollars, a PR nightmare, and hundreds of thousands of users closing their accounts. It's simply not enough for this clause to just exist, buried somewhere in the terms of use; a clause of this nature (if Facebook really wanted to use the images) needs to be conspicuous for any judge to accept it and rule in favour of the company not the victims of the abuse.

    I wouldn't even upload my drunken-face photo to their website, though.
     
  10. Enough Already

    Enough Already TPF Noob!

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    Because, like all legal T&C's, are written in legal jibberish so that simple minded people like myself cant really understand what they are saying, can someone cut and paste the section of the contract that says they have the rights to all images. I have just removed mine in any case, but I would like to understand what it is that they are actually saying in regards to user content.

    Thanks
     
  11. sxesweets

    sxesweets TPF Noob!

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    Licenses

    You are solely responsible for the User Content that you Post on or through the Facebook Service. You hereby grant Facebook an irrevocable, perpetual, non-exclusive, transferable, fully paid, worldwide license (with the right to sublicense) to (a) use, copy, publish, stream, store, retain, publicly perform or display, transmit, scan, reformat, modify, edit, frame, translate, excerpt, adapt, create derivative works and distribute (through multiple tiers), any User Content you (i) Post on or in connection with the Facebook Service or the promotion thereof subject only to your privacy settings or (ii) enable a user to Post, including by offering a Share Link on your website and (b) to use your name, likeness and image for any purpose, including commercial or advertising, each of (a) and (b) on or in connection with the Facebook Service or the promotion thereof. You represent and warrant that you have all rights and permissions to grant the foregoing licenses.
    If you own or control a website, you may place Facebook's
     
  12. jstuedle

    jstuedle No longer a newbie, moving up!

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    To me it's not a matter of FaceBook covering there butt, but they now have digital copies of my property and could sell them to a stock agency. Share them with another online service, the government, or create there own stock photo service. For me it's a matter of principal. (That pic of you smooching someone of the same gender in a bar could be searched and found by a perspective employer. Costing you a valuable job sometime in the future, maybe 20 years down the road.)


    Let's examine a recent event that was in the news. A-Rod lied to Katie Coric and took steroids. How did the media find out? Some years ago the league tested/polled the players in what was supposed to be a blind study/poll. It was at a time when steroids were not banned, but the league was concerned and wanted to know if the use of steroids was by more than 5% of the players tested. As mentioned, the study was supposed to be blind and the tests destroyed after the findings tallied. The results were entered into a database WITH names and all other associated data. Someone in the media searched and found the data and could prove that A.R. lied to a member of guess who, the media. Yes, he lied and did something that was at the time looked down on but not a violation of league rules or law. So someone has now violated the law to play gottcha and won't be prosecuted for it. The real legal issue has been diverted away from.


    Facebook could be considered part of the media, if you want to stretch it a little. I believe facebook is privately owned. But who is to say what their intentions are with your data in the long term. Or what would happen to that data if and when they are sold.

    Another example. (please don't take this as a political argument for one side or the other, this is just the way I observed the facts) A private citizen is out playing catch with his son and a politician stumping for votes walks up to him with media cameras rolling. The citizen asks a question and the politician stumbles a bit and gives an answer that some find telling as to his hidden intensions. Half a country away a sympathetic state worker of the same party does a search usng government computers and data. It turns up the private guy owes a few thousand dollars on a tax lean. The media uses that information that was illegally obtained and released to them to destroy the citizen instead of probing the public official as to his true intentions.This data was used to redirect the argument and coverage to fit an agenda.

    In both of these cases data was stored and supposed to be kept private. In the latter case a proven felony was committed. In days gone by these records would be on paper locked in a file cabinet somewhere. Now the data can be copied and distributed world-wide in seconds. Once it's done, legal or not the damage is done. We used to keep our negatives safe, one copy and knew where they were at all times.

    My point is no matter it be images, medical data, tax records, whatever. If it is stored on a computer somewhere it can be sold, stolen, or "shared" with someone violating your privacy and/or copyrights.

    I know many of my images are "out there" and profitted from. It's impossible to know how many of what and where. That is the nature of the beast we have created and indulge every day. I fear soon it will be an ever increasing problem in all aspects of our lives. I for one am fortunate that I have lived most of my life already, I have much less to be fearfull of than the younger generation.
     

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