Father & son

[Rick Waldroup]

I guess it depends. You cant take a recognizable photo of someone and sell it without a release even if it is on the street. laws vary beyond that and are complicated.

here is my issue. My husband and I have 4 kids. Two teenage boys (his from his first marriage) and then two toddlers from our marriage. They are both adopted and are Mayan/Hispanic. Our older two are half Asian. My husband and I are white white. My husband uses a wheel chair, he is paralyzed. This doesn't stop him from parenting working, providing our family a very comfortable life.

But if someone thought it was neat to see him with one child on his lap, the other standing on his feet (thats how he carries both toddlers) or thought our "rainbow family" and snapped a photo, I would be super pissed. We arent a public oddity to be put on display and we are human and should be respected. You don't really know how much we get stared at or talked about because we are "different".

You are exploiting this man by not asking his permission, even if it was after the fact. Go up to him and tell him who you are, that you thought he embodied something special about fatherhood and you took his photo and would love to send him a print or two. Taking his photo and not telling him and getting away with it cause he is blind...just kind of shady in my book.

It is attitudes like this that is slowly eating away at the art of street photography. That, and also that folks now look at street photographers as either possible terrorists or child molesters.

How is this fellow being exploited? I mean, think about it. Just exactly what is being done to him that is wrong? What I take from the image is that this is a sight you do not see everyday and to me, it shows an inner strength in the man to live a normal life, just like everyone else. He is taking his child for a walk. That's it.

Of course, people see different things in street shots and that is the beauty of the art.

However, I do agree that I would have snapped the shot first, then walked up to him and explain who I am, give him a card, and offer to send him a print. But then again, I do that to a lot of folks I shoot on the street. If the shot is not a candid and someone sees me shooting them, as soon as I get the shot, I walk right up to them, explain who I am and give them a card and I always tell them that it may be posted on my website. I also tell them to email me and I will send them a copy of the photo. It is very rare when someone complains and if they do, I do not use the photo. About the only subject I will not shoot on the street are homeless people. In my 30 years of street shooting, I can count on one hand the shots I have of the homeless- and I shot those because I really felt the image was compelling and could possibly help show the absolute devastation of being homeless. I do not like to shoot the homeless, because if ever there were a group of people who are easily exploited, it is them.

As far as the photo goes, I would get rid of the glow completely. Have you thought about doing it in B&W?

 

[Sarah23]

I think it in B&W would look really good.

I dont think its exploitation....hes in a public area, and not doing anything wrong/illegal. Obviously if he were to SELL the photo that would be another story, but hes not.

Great pic!

 

[Emerana]

It is attitudes like this that is slowly eating away at the art of street photography. That, and also that folks now look at street photographers as either possible terrorists or child molesters.

How is this fellow being exploited? I mean, think about it.

ATTITUDES LIKE THIS??? you have got to be kidding me, its my life not my theory on street photography, you have no idea the struggles that my family has to go through and when you add that people think we are art and don't have the common decency to speak to us or to show us a tiny bit of respect, it is just shady. shady shady shady

 

[Rick Waldroup]

ATTITUDES LIKE THIS??? you have got to be kidding me, its my life not my theory on street photography, you have no idea the struggles that my family has to go through and when you add that people think we are art and don't have the common decency to speak to us or to show us a tiny bit of respect, it is just shady. shady shady shady

What are you so upset about? How is someone taking a photo of someone else on the street, hurting anyone? How is it disrespectful?

You have said yourself that you are an unusual looking family. People will look at things they may not normally see everyday. That is human nature. Have you ever thought that maybe a street shooter would take a shot because he sees the beauty in your family?

And I explained in my previous post the way I go about street shooting. There are many different styles and methods of street shooting. I've got a friend who is a street shooter. His style is very different than mine. He is right in your face, doesn't interact much with the subject and so on. I keep waiting for him to get his lights punched out.

My style is different. While I shoot my fair amount of candids, I also like to engage the folks, talk to them, let them know that the only reason why I am shooting them is because I find them interesting in the context of being on the street. It is really very simple.

 

[Emerana]

I think it shows a lack of basic sensitivity if you are surprised it would upset a family to be a public spectacle. I can take it, I made choices in this, but what about my children. How fair is it for them? Stars will punch a photographers lights out for shooting their kids, I would too.

We are very proud of our family, as I am sure the subject of this photo is proud of his. So talk to the man. Don't shoot a child without talking to the parents (it can get you murdered by a mob in Guatemala).

 

[Emerana]

I guess I have two points so I should clarify

1) how many street photos do you take of children? The OP took a recognizable photo of this man and his child which I think is off limits. They got away with it because the man has a disability, there by exploiting his disability and acting fairly shady

2) People who are different then the "norm" get this kind of attention regularly. Their children have to suffer through it. We hope that they grow as a result, but we know sometimes it can be hurtful. By ignoring this dynamic and shooting away (or pointing, staring, making comments), and treating the subject as an object for you to make a point with, you are acting with very little sensitivity, poor values and hurting the child as a result.

If you disagree, I have to ask if the shoe has ever been on the other foot? Have you experienced this? My father was disabled too, so I have been on many sides of this conversation. Instead of pointing the finger at me and say I am the cause of the disintegration of street photography, learn from people who have other experiences to improve your art.

 

[Lacey Anne]

Emerna, have you ever thought people look at you because they admire you? I get pointed at and looked at too (I have four children four and under and around here, that's a spectacle) but I just move on. If someone took our pictures... Well, I'm not sure how I would feel about that because I wouldn't want anyone but me putting my children's photos who knows where online. But the attention doesn't bother me. We plan on adopting from Haiti and I suppose then we'll get even more attentions as we are definately white. But I'd like to think people would look with admiration that you are willing to help these children, adopt them into your family and love someone unconditionally even though they look different. Not everyone can. You should be proud.

 

[Emerana]

ummm....I don't want to discount your experience, but it isn't really the same thing. I think the adoption conversation in itself is an interesting one ( a little OT), one that I could have different answers for each day of the week. i can tell you that when you become a parent to an adopted child, you don't want people to admire you. You want to be normal. You want your child to feel normal. You just want to go to the grocery store without being the billboard for racial harmony. You quickly stop seeing how your child is different and just see how they are special. When people are constantly reminding you and your child that they are indeed different, it wears on your patience.

And if you think it is all admiration (if you are adopting and expecting that you are barking up the wrong tree). there is alot of racism, anti-adoption feelings and misinformation out there. You face it every single day. Every time you leave the home. You chose it, the child didn't. You become very protective. You don't want the love of your life to suffer self-esteem issues because people interject their feelings (admiration or otherwise) on your family.

the disability issue is far different then the adoption issue and I think much more on point here. I know having alot of kids is a big deal, we have 4 also. But it just isn't the same thing.

 

[Rick Waldroup]

Well, Emerana, you bring up some interesting points. Let's begin with children. What is wrong with taking a photo of a child? And I am being very serious here. What harm is taking place when someone snaps the shutter? At what point did any harm come to the child because someone raised a camera and snapped a photo?

When did everyone become so deathly afraid of cameras? Why are people afraid of cameras? What is the problem with taking a snapshot of a kid? The answer to your question is that I rarely take photos of kids anymore because of this irrational fear people have of photos being made of their children. Years and years ago, if I saw an interesting kid on the street or at a playground having fun, I would not hesitate to shoot, but times change. Now, if you do that, people call the police. I call this the fear factor.

Well, I hear from folks, you just can't be too careful and you never know what anyone's intent is for shooting a photo of a child. That is the arguement I hear and that arguement is based on hysterical fear. I'll give you an example of this. My 8 year old grandson was having his birthday party at one of those outdoor amusement parks- you know, where they have go-carts and putt putt, and so on. So there I am, with my camera snapping photos when a guy walks up to me and asked me who I was. I identified myself as the grandfather of the birthday boy and then he pointed out his daughter, one of the kids at the party, and asked that I make sure not to get her in any of the photos I was taking. You know what these kid's were doing? Acting like kids- having fun. That's what. Where does this crazy fear come from?

I have had people shoot my picture while on the streets of several downtown areas. I do not like having my picture made, period. I don't care where I am at. But I have had several street shooters shoot me before on the streets, no biggie. In the grand scheme of things, who cares? I've always thought, who in the heck would want a photo of my ugly mug, but I figured they must have had a reason for shooting me in the street environment.

You keep using the word shady. I don't understand this. If the photographer is a street shooter, what is this rationale for his shady behaviour? What is shady about it? See, here's the thing. I refuse to live my life in constant fear. I did not raise my children like that at all. I taught them to be cautious, but not to live with this weird fixation of fearing everything they come across in life. Who in the hell wants to live like that? Not me.

 

[Emerana]

Well your a grandfather so you must have had children and therefore understand the strong desire to protect your children. There is no irrational fear involved, you do not know the shooters intentions. You just do not take photos of a child without talking to their parents.

The guy at the party, maybe he had a reason. Maybe they were in witness protection or they were fugitives. maybe he was super paranoid. Who knows? I have never run into that myself. I mostly shoot children and have taken many of photos at parties and parks, etc and no one has questioned me. I dont think that one man's paranoia or circumstance can really be issued to prove this point.

 

[haduyenhoa]

Hello,
@Emerana: I'm so sorry because my photo have made you so angry. I just want to say that I took this photo cause I saw a large value of life (the huge love that the father give to the son) and I would like to give to the viewer an emotion of love. That's all. We are "people photography" section, all picture are for describe "people", about their works, their actions, their comportments, their emotions in live. We all respect the people in the picture and we DO NOT 'staring', 'treating', ... at them like you said. We just one to take a REAL picture like it is.
@All: thank you for loving this photo. I'll try to take it to BW, I don't have experience in BW photo (the contrast, shadow, saturtion, ...)

 

[Rick Waldroup]

Well your a grandfather so you must have had children and therefore understand the strong desire to protect your children. There is no irrational fear involved, you do not know the shooters intentions. You just do not take photos of a child without talking to their parents.

The guy at the party, maybe he had a reason. Maybe they were in witness protection or they were fugitives. maybe he was super paranoid. Who knows? I have never run into that myself. I mostly shoot children and have taken many of photos at parties and parks, etc and no one has questioned me. I dont think that one man's paranoia or circumstance can really be issued to prove this point.

Well, now here you bring up another interesting point. How much easier do you think it is for a woman to take photos of kids at a park, than it is for a man? When my kids were growing up- in the 70's and early 1980's, I thought nothing at all about taking them to the park and shooting photos of them and their friends. When I take my little grandchildren to the park and my wife is not with me, I can't tell you how many funny looks I get when I start taking photos. How do you think that makes me feel?

As far as the guy at the party, yep, I thought the same thing as you, maybe he really had a reason, but I've had other people stop and ask me why I am taking photos of kids. It just goes with the territory nowdays.

When I am out street shooting, if I aim the camera at someone and they wave me off or shake the head that they do not want me to shoot the picture, I lower the camera immediately, smile, wave, and move on. I never, ever make a spectacle out of shooting someone on the street. That is not what street photography is about.

Anyway, all I have been trying to do is explain the rationale behind street photography. It is basically all I shoot, and what I started shooting when I first picked up a camera seriously when I was 14 years old. To me, it is the purest form of the art of photography, but that is just me.

 

[Emerana]

had, I understand your point and was also moved by the photograph in the begining. I just think you went about it wrong.

Rick. That is so funny. Anywhere i go I am the only mom photographer for the most part (I see an occasional woman shooting besides p&s snapshots). the rest are men and no one notices them doing it. If it was a man sans children shooting in a park, yes, then people would be bothered.

I always feel a little out of place being a female shooter.

 

[Rick Waldroup]

Hello,
@Emerana: I'm so sorry because my photo have made you so angry. I just want to say that I took this photo cause I saw a large value of life (the huge love that the father give to the son) and I would like to give to the viewer an emotion of love. That's all. We are "people photography" section, all picture are for describe "people", about their works, their actions, their comportments, their emotions in live. We all respect the people in the picture and we DO NOT 'staring', 'treating', ... at them like you said. We just one to take a REAL picture like it is.
@All: thank you for loving this photo. I'll try to take it to BW, I don't have experience in BW photo (the contrast, shadow, saturtion, ...)

Had, I sent you a PM with a B&W version of your shot. It was a little tough because of the soft focus effect on the photo and also because the man tried to blend into the shrubbery behind, which I was afraid of. Anyway, it is just a quick conversion using a software program I have for converting color to B&W. Tell me what you think. Take care, Rick.

 

[Rick Waldroup]

had, I understand your point and was also moved by the photograph in the begining. I just think you went about it wrong.

Rick. That is so funny. Anywhere i go I am the only mom photographer for the most part (I see an occasional woman shooting besides p&s snapshots). the rest are men and no one notices them doing it. If it was a man sans children shooting in a park, yes, then people would be bothered.

I always feel a little out of place being a female shooter.

Yep, I usually get some funny looks until one of my grandkids yells "Papa", then all the ladies smile a bit and tend to relax.