First post, might as well jump in with both feet...
- Thread starter gilsmak
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ThatCameraThingy
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the thing that caught my attention first, and put me off , was the expression on the girl's face. She looks half asleep, drugged or uninterrested. not at all sensual wich I assume is what is needed.
Hanno
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What is it you want to convey with this image? It's hard to critique without knowing what you're after. You might want to refer to the critique forum guidelines when posting here.
Are you satisfied with your image technically, aesthetically? What equipment did you use?
Are you satisfied with your image technically, aesthetically? What equipment did you use?
She hates posing for pictures. She wanted me to try and capture her in a "normal" type of situation. Dont know how normal it is to be rolling around on my chaise in her underwear, but anyway.
I guess we were just looking for some kind of classy but attractive representation of her. I thought I caught it, but she hates most of the shots. I was just trying to get input as to whether or not the lighting, etc was ok. Maybe some pose insight too.
As far as equipment, I was just using my Digital Rebel and house lighting. Was not well prepared. I dont exactly remember my settings without having the original on hand (I am at work). But it was close to the following...
1/25
f 5.6
ISO 100
I guess we were just looking for some kind of classy but attractive representation of her. I thought I caught it, but she hates most of the shots. I was just trying to get input as to whether or not the lighting, etc was ok. Maybe some pose insight too.
As far as equipment, I was just using my Digital Rebel and house lighting. Was not well prepared. I dont exactly remember my settings without having the original on hand (I am at work). But it was close to the following...
1/25
f 5.6
ISO 100
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Thank you for supplying the info. 
She is lovely, and no doubt looks great in her hot-looking lingerie. But her dislike of being photographed is shining through here; she looks like she's ready to cry. But she is definitely worth shooting; if she's willing to try again wait till she's more relaxed about it. I'd like to see a soft smile here, or at least a more relaxed gaze, not those puckers in her brow.
You have proportional problems here, as well. Her elbow and forearm are larger than her thigh. How close were you to her; do you have a portrait lens? These problems can be easily corrected. I'd go for even less DOF so the viewer doesn't have to see the window blinds. The lighting isn't bad, it is soft and even. I'm not wild about the right hand placement; looks like she's scratching under there, and I'm sure she isn't. :razz:
Hope you try this again!
She is lovely, and no doubt looks great in her hot-looking lingerie.
But her dislike of being photographed is shining through here; she looks like she's ready to cry. But she is definitely worth shooting; if she's willing to try again wait till she's more relaxed about it. I'd like to see a soft smile here, or at least a more relaxed gaze, not those puckers in her brow.You have proportional problems here, as well. Her elbow and forearm are larger than her thigh. How close were you to her; do you have a portrait lens? These problems can be easily corrected. I'd go for even less DOF so the viewer doesn't have to see the window blinds. The lighting isn't bad, it is soft and even. I'm not wild about the right hand placement; looks like she's scratching under there, and I'm sure she isn't. :razz:
Hope you try this again!
wharrison
TPF Noob!
Photographically, it is called a perspective distortion and it becomes somewhat noticeable when you are making use of a 50mm lens and working too close to your subject. In this case, her elbow becomes over emphasized and the rest of her body become elongated and looks (slightly) further away. A wide angle lens working this close would produce a greater perspective distortion.
As stated by someone else, a 85mm to 90mm focal length lens would have been the better choice to use in this situation.
Aesthetically, I will also echo the response of another person; your subject - girlfriend, wife, friend - is definitely uncomfortable and I wouldn't make her feel more uncomfortable by photographing her in her underwear or by attempting to make her look or feel sexy or, better yet, sensual, when she is very uncomfortable and may not feel sensual in any way whatsoever.
If she is agreeable, I would photograph her outside in a far more "comfortable" dress situation, i.e. street or regular clothes, for example, and spend a great deal of time talking with her before, during, and after your photographic session.
As Alfred Eisenstaedt, the famous Life photographer use to say:
"It's more important to click with people than to click the shutter."
If you're not familiar with him and/or his work, I've provided you with two links below.
http://www.life.com/Life/eisie/eisie.html
http://artscenecal.com/ArticlesFile/Archive/Articles1997/Articles0397/AEisenstaedt.html
In the meantime, you might wish to explore another option - in keeping with Eisenstaedt motto - allow, if not encourage, the people you're photographing "speak" to you before photographing them.
In order to do that, you'll have to convey a great deal of trust, patience, understanding, and/or become a very good listener. Sometimes, you may end up spending a great deal of time just talking and listening, before you actually pick up a camera. At that point, you can then begin to take "live" photographs of real people; instead of "dead" or pre-conceived ideas of photographing live people. I am referring to the typical "armpit" portraits of women.
Here's a link to one of them:
http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00CnsW
With regard to the "technical" aspects of your work, you might wish to slightly over-exposed and under develop in order to achieve a slightly longer tonal range in your negative so that you could pull out some better detail in the lingerie. (I am assuming, of course, that you are working with film and doing your own developing and/or printing.) If not, you might wish to add a little soft or diffuse light to provide more detail in the "underwear areas" - for want of a better term.
But, I wouldn't suggest working on improving these technical aspects, until you had "solved" the problem of your subject being uncomfortable and you, perhaps, not having the patience, trust, insight, understanding that might be necessary before the photography begins.
Again, I remind you of Eisenstaedt's motto:
"It's more important to click with people than to click the shutter."
Hope this is useful information and my best wishes for your photographic endeavors.
Bill
As stated by someone else, a 85mm to 90mm focal length lens would have been the better choice to use in this situation.
Aesthetically, I will also echo the response of another person; your subject - girlfriend, wife, friend - is definitely uncomfortable and I wouldn't make her feel more uncomfortable by photographing her in her underwear or by attempting to make her look or feel sexy or, better yet, sensual, when she is very uncomfortable and may not feel sensual in any way whatsoever.
If she is agreeable, I would photograph her outside in a far more "comfortable" dress situation, i.e. street or regular clothes, for example, and spend a great deal of time talking with her before, during, and after your photographic session.
As Alfred Eisenstaedt, the famous Life photographer use to say:
"It's more important to click with people than to click the shutter."
If you're not familiar with him and/or his work, I've provided you with two links below.
http://www.life.com/Life/eisie/eisie.html
http://artscenecal.com/ArticlesFile/Archive/Articles1997/Articles0397/AEisenstaedt.html
In the meantime, you might wish to explore another option - in keeping with Eisenstaedt motto - allow, if not encourage, the people you're photographing "speak" to you before photographing them.
In order to do that, you'll have to convey a great deal of trust, patience, understanding, and/or become a very good listener. Sometimes, you may end up spending a great deal of time just talking and listening, before you actually pick up a camera. At that point, you can then begin to take "live" photographs of real people; instead of "dead" or pre-conceived ideas of photographing live people. I am referring to the typical "armpit" portraits of women.
Here's a link to one of them:
http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00CnsW
With regard to the "technical" aspects of your work, you might wish to slightly over-exposed and under develop in order to achieve a slightly longer tonal range in your negative so that you could pull out some better detail in the lingerie. (I am assuming, of course, that you are working with film and doing your own developing and/or printing.) If not, you might wish to add a little soft or diffuse light to provide more detail in the "underwear areas" - for want of a better term.
But, I wouldn't suggest working on improving these technical aspects, until you had "solved" the problem of your subject being uncomfortable and you, perhaps, not having the patience, trust, insight, understanding that might be necessary before the photography begins.
Again, I remind you of Eisenstaedt's motto:
"It's more important to click with people than to click the shutter."
Hope this is useful information and my best wishes for your photographic endeavors.
Bill
Thank you for your response.
The individual in the photos was/is a very close friend of mine. She was admittedly preoccupied with a few personal issues. But as far as the choices for attire go, they were all hers. She wants to give it another go soon and promises to be a little more pleasant.
I appreciate the links, however and will dive deeper in the text as soon as I am not at work.
From a technical aspect, I respect and have noted what you have said.
Thanks again,
Josh
The individual in the photos was/is a very close friend of mine. She was admittedly preoccupied with a few personal issues. But as far as the choices for attire go, they were all hers. She wants to give it another go soon and promises to be a little more pleasant.
I appreciate the links, however and will dive deeper in the text as soon as I am not at work.
From a technical aspect, I respect and have noted what you have said.
Thanks again,
Josh
kelox
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Josh you can't go wrong with the advise given here. These folks know just how to help and are more than willing. Your attitude is also going to work in your favor. You asked for advise and listened. Most people ask but don't want the truth, you on the other hand made notes and took the advise. This will help you progress a bit quicker, in my opinion, I know I have. That's just my two cents worth. Continued sucess in photography.gilsmak said:
wharrison
TPF Noob!
Gilsmak:
My apologies if I appearedto be too harsh in my aesthetic comments but they were not intended to be so. Even so, your photographs do reveal that she was very uncomfortable in posing for these photographs and didn't seem too interested in revealing the better part of herself.
Now that I know a little more of the background to these photographs, I would again make the suggestion that you spend some time outdoors engaging her in conversation on all sorts of subjects and, perhaps, once in a while, shooting a picture or two. In short, don't turn it into either a formal, semi-formal, or candid photographic session. Just a few photographs - now and then - and don't worry too much about achieving some kind of technical perfection.
After a few relaxing sessions or when she feels she is ready, ask her back for a more informal, perhaps, less intimate, session and see what happens. It may take more than a few attempts, but the both of you will eventually "click" in Eisenstaedt's sense.
My apologies also for not revealing the other side of the coin. My own experience.
Years ago, a young woman approached me with the prospect of having her (informal/formal) portrait taken so that she could make an enlargment of the best pose and give it as a present to her boyfriend.
So she came over to my studio and I engaged her in small conversation while I was setting up my camera - a Leica M-4 rangefinder with a 90mm Summicron F/2.0 lens. If you're familiar with rangefinder cameras, they are very quiet, since there is not mirror slapping upwards or downwards and no noise from the movement of the aperture blades.
I immediately noticed that everytime I began to press the shutter release, she instantly froze up. So during our conversation, I pulled out a cable release and tried again - several times. Each time, she instantly froze up.
So I switched to an even longer cable release and began to "hide" it - to the side, behind the camera, behind the tripod. behind my back, etc. Again, each time, I tripped the shutter, she instantly froze up a fraction of a second before.
I then pulled on my air cable release, which is even longer and began again. And like clockwork, every time I squeezed off a shot, she instantly froze up like a long dead corpse an instant of a section before the shutter tripped.
I informed her that I would give her a call when the proofs arrived back in the studio. When the proofs arrived, they were excellent technically, but each photograph revealed a dead, stiff corpse.
So we went through a second session. This time, I suggested that she have a few glasses of wine a few hours before she came to the studio. I went through another 36 exposure roll and each time, she frooze up.
We mutually disbanded the projected and I swallowed the time and expense and chalked up the experience.
So such things happen once in a while.
Another short response is forthcoming tomorrow.
Again, best wishes in your photographic endeavors.
Bill
My apologies if I appearedto be too harsh in my aesthetic comments but they were not intended to be so. Even so, your photographs do reveal that she was very uncomfortable in posing for these photographs and didn't seem too interested in revealing the better part of herself.
Now that I know a little more of the background to these photographs, I would again make the suggestion that you spend some time outdoors engaging her in conversation on all sorts of subjects and, perhaps, once in a while, shooting a picture or two. In short, don't turn it into either a formal, semi-formal, or candid photographic session. Just a few photographs - now and then - and don't worry too much about achieving some kind of technical perfection.
After a few relaxing sessions or when she feels she is ready, ask her back for a more informal, perhaps, less intimate, session and see what happens. It may take more than a few attempts, but the both of you will eventually "click" in Eisenstaedt's sense.
My apologies also for not revealing the other side of the coin. My own experience.
Years ago, a young woman approached me with the prospect of having her (informal/formal) portrait taken so that she could make an enlargment of the best pose and give it as a present to her boyfriend.
So she came over to my studio and I engaged her in small conversation while I was setting up my camera - a Leica M-4 rangefinder with a 90mm Summicron F/2.0 lens. If you're familiar with rangefinder cameras, they are very quiet, since there is not mirror slapping upwards or downwards and no noise from the movement of the aperture blades.
I immediately noticed that everytime I began to press the shutter release, she instantly froze up. So during our conversation, I pulled out a cable release and tried again - several times. Each time, she instantly froze up.
So I switched to an even longer cable release and began to "hide" it - to the side, behind the camera, behind the tripod. behind my back, etc. Again, each time, I tripped the shutter, she instantly froze up a fraction of a second before.
I then pulled on my air cable release, which is even longer and began again. And like clockwork, every time I squeezed off a shot, she instantly froze up like a long dead corpse an instant of a section before the shutter tripped.
I informed her that I would give her a call when the proofs arrived back in the studio. When the proofs arrived, they were excellent technically, but each photograph revealed a dead, stiff corpse.
So we went through a second session. This time, I suggested that she have a few glasses of wine a few hours before she came to the studio. I went through another 36 exposure roll and each time, she frooze up.
We mutually disbanded the projected and I swallowed the time and expense and chalked up the experience.
So such things happen once in a while.
Another short response is forthcoming tomorrow.
Again, best wishes in your photographic endeavors.
Bill
wharrison
TPF Noob!
Gilmak:
We're (Sue and I) are from Manistee. I grew up on the tallgrass prairie of central Illinois - Peoria and moved here in the winter of 1997 and Sue is a native of Michigan.
If you wish to read one of the best books on photography - which will contain an excellent discussion of "perspective" and the creative use of lenses - I highly recommend "Better Colour" by Walther Bensor.
It is a little outdated in terms of the cameras and films referenced, but it is an armchair and very informative read. (Read relaxing and very worthwhile.) Unfortunately, it is a little short on illustrations, but even so, I have no doubts that you will come to treasure this old gem and might even add it to your own personal library.
I would also recommend reading Eisenstaedt's book: "The Eye of Eisenstadet" by Alfred Eisenstaedt. It is part autobiography, part photo-technic and part "seeing" photographically. Like Bensor's book, it is a treasured gem and a little outdated when referencing cameras and film, but the "meat" of this book is still excellent. One of its hidden gems, is that Eisenstaedt provides selections from several of his contact prints and then discusses why he chose the particular frame that he did. Very few books on photography even reach this pinnacle of illustrative discussion. Ditto here with regard to adding this book to your own personal library.
A third excellent "read" is Anne Tucker's "The Woman's Eye". Ebay currently is offering a hardback version of the book and contains some illustrations of her edited collection of photographic works by various famous woman photographers. The ebay auction number is 6952985525. You might find as good or better (condition) book through either one of the used book sellers listed below. And third ditto here as well.
Although all of these books are out of print, they can be found at or through your library's interlibrary loan system and/or through either one of the two excellent sources of used and new books listed below.
http://www.abe.com
http://www.alibris.com
Again, hope this is useful information and, of course best wishes in your photographic endeavors.
Bill
We're (Sue and I) are from Manistee. I grew up on the tallgrass prairie of central Illinois - Peoria and moved here in the winter of 1997 and Sue is a native of Michigan.
If you wish to read one of the best books on photography - which will contain an excellent discussion of "perspective" and the creative use of lenses - I highly recommend "Better Colour" by Walther Bensor.
It is a little outdated in terms of the cameras and films referenced, but it is an armchair and very informative read. (Read relaxing and very worthwhile.) Unfortunately, it is a little short on illustrations, but even so, I have no doubts that you will come to treasure this old gem and might even add it to your own personal library.
I would also recommend reading Eisenstaedt's book: "The Eye of Eisenstadet" by Alfred Eisenstaedt. It is part autobiography, part photo-technic and part "seeing" photographically. Like Bensor's book, it is a treasured gem and a little outdated when referencing cameras and film, but the "meat" of this book is still excellent. One of its hidden gems, is that Eisenstaedt provides selections from several of his contact prints and then discusses why he chose the particular frame that he did. Very few books on photography even reach this pinnacle of illustrative discussion. Ditto here with regard to adding this book to your own personal library.
A third excellent "read" is Anne Tucker's "The Woman's Eye". Ebay currently is offering a hardback version of the book and contains some illustrations of her edited collection of photographic works by various famous woman photographers. The ebay auction number is 6952985525. You might find as good or better (condition) book through either one of the used book sellers listed below. And third ditto here as well.
Although all of these books are out of print, they can be found at or through your library's interlibrary loan system and/or through either one of the two excellent sources of used and new books listed below.
http://www.abe.com
http://www.alibris.com
Again, hope this is useful information and, of course best wishes in your photographic endeavors.
Bill
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