First Wedding HELP!

[gsgary]

OH NO I'M OUT OF HERE because i will "PUT FOOT IN MOUTH"

 

[pgriz]

Managing expectations is key to this exercise. Your wedding party's expectations of what will happen. The mothers and other relatives of the wedding party have expectations that you may not be aware of (there's a minefield for you!). Your expectation of what you can achieve. The clergyman/woman may have their own agenda and issues. Emotions are at a fever pitch. Gaggles of people have to be herded here and there, kept engaged and quiet (kinda) at the same time. Unresolved issues between family members may bubble up to the surface, if not at the wedding, then at the reception after (especially once the alcohol starts to flow).

I've been at a number of weddings and they rarely go as predicted. I remember one which was to be held outside at a stunning location in summer. Lots of effort was put into making the place beautiful and memorable. Mother nature decided to contribute, by dropping the temperature down to near-freezing, bringing in a strong wind (blew most of the decor, including the altar into the nearby scenic pond), and unleashing a rain shower accented with hailstones. Fortunately, the couple and their families were very easy-going, and the whole thing was moved to a nearby barn where the ceremony was completed, and then we trecked to the reception hall which was quickly set up to cope with the unexpected change of venue. Eh, stuff happens. Couple remains happily married and that wedding still remains one of the most memorable I've had the priviledge to attend.

 

[Syco]

To Whitney,
Doing a wedding photo shoot is non-trivial. You’re getting the reaction that you’re getting because your degree of knowledge and preparation seems equivalent to someone having a hammer and a drill, being asked to build a house for a relative who can’t afford to hire a real architect/contractor.

If you have 9 months, then you need to acquire a few things:
1. Experience with your equipment (and perhaps some new equipment).
2. Experience shooting in the typical environment
3. Experience with light modifiers (flash, etc.).
4. Knowledge of basic composition, posing.
5. Knowledge of post-processing

Perhaps, the starting point is to look at various wedding portfolios (there are many on the web), and various wedding publications, and get a sense of the kind of images that are common, and discuss these with your customers. Your goal here is to get a sense of what they expect and to figure out the “minimum deliverables”. If all they want and expect are two shots of them at the alter, great. Chances are, they'll want more.

Once you’ve got a clearer idea of the target, you need to scout out suitable places which replicate the shooting conditions you will have and try to shoot the photos using a willing (or susceptible-to-blackmail) volunteer. Then look hard at what the results are and decide where you need to improve.

For example, you mentioned that the church in which you’ll be shooting has fluorescent lights and dark woodwork. This means that unless you know how to adjust the color balance, you’ll have all kind of weird tones. The dark woodwork will skew your camera’s lightmeter, and will most probably cause you to overexpose. This means that you will need to get a good idea of the exposure to use (you need to expose for the highlights), and then lock that in by using the manual exposure.

If there is just not enough light for you to get decent images, you have options: a flash (assuming one is allowed at the wedding), a faster lens than what you have ($$$), and/or a camera body which can handle high ISO values with minimal noise (again, $$$ or rent $$$), and/or additional lighting equipment (more $$$). Learning to use a flash is a non-trivial exercise as well, as you need to figure out which flash mode you need to use, the amount of power it has relative to your shooting distance, whether a flash modifier/diffuser is needed, etc., etc.

Although there is usually not a lot of movement during a wedding, there is a lot of variation between the lightest areas and the darkest areas. You need photographic skill to ensure that all relevant parts of the scene are recorded with enough detail. That skill is obtained by learning and lots of practice.

If you’re the only photographer at the wedding, you’ll need to be in many places at the same time. Since that is usually difficult for ordinary mortals, you’ll probably need to work out a script with your customers in terms of the shots that you will make (including your position, the angle, the degree of zoom or closeup), so that you can move smoothly through the sequence without becoming the scene yourself. Experienced photographers usually know where they need to be for each part of the ceremony, but you won’t have the benefit of that experience.

After all is done, there’s the processing of the pictures, weeding out the out-of-focus, under and over-exposed ones, ditching the ones where the composition or posing is unflattering, etc., and preparing a deliverable (prints? CD? DVD?) for your customers. Again, post-processing is non-trivial, especially with all the tools that are available.

One piece of advice that I can give you, is to try and get invited to as many weddings as you can, either as the “friend with a camera” or as a “second shooter”. Watch what the pros do and “borrow” all the good ideas you can (that’s called hands-on-learning). Then try to replicate what you saw them do (that is called “really” hands-on-learning).

Remember also Murphy’s Law. You know, “Anything and everything that can go wrong, will”. The counter to Ms. Murphy’s machinations is preparation and anticipation. Backup equipment, backup shooters, backup batteries, backup memory cards, backup hard drives on which you will store your photos, etc.

That’s why you have gotten a less-than-stellar welcome – there is a large gap (or so it seems to us from your posts) between where you are now, and where you need to be to successfully and reliably deliver on one of the most important days in the lives of your customers. It can be done, but it is, as I’ve said before “non-trivial”.

This post should be archived and repeated in every wedding thread.

 

[kundalini]

Feel free to comment in a PM I need all the help I can get.

PM being sent.

Start welcoming it. I get told I suck all the time, but that's what helps us to improve (Well... the "you suck, but here's what you should do next time..." type comments anyway. :lmao: )

You suck.
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[wtdeane]

It is a small cermony and they don't have the money to hire a professional.

If this is really the case, then perhaps one of the best gifts the families could give the bride and groom would be to pay for a professional photographer. There will be plenty of time for them to get things like silverware, dining sets, and all that other stuff the newlyweds typically get... but they'll never have the opportunity to go back and re-shoot their big day.

BTW, letting everyone know that you are not getting paid and that they are relatives probably would have saved you from a lot of flaming.

+10 for brilliant suggestion.

 

[wtdeane]

Here's a little STFU for ya... My wife's family is a bunch of redneck Michigan hicks. It's like little Alabama held in America's pinky. Her one aunt was married in a barn that fell down 3 months later.

Another aunt...I personally did the photography for her wedding. I arrive what I thought was a little early, and the best man, and the groom were outside, with suit jackets on....and blue jeans. As soon as me and my wife get there, they walk up to the front, there's like 15 people there total. They get up to the front, and no music nothing...her aunt starts walking down the aisle.

All this took like 5 minutes upon arrival...no joke. And ten minutes after the pastor came out of her study...we were in the car and leaving to their reception.

Point being...with the divorce rate in America the way that it is...there's enough weddings that aren't that special, and the worst ameteur couldn't screw them up.

How do you leap to the conclusion that the wedding the OP is planning to shoot will be as trailer-trash low-class as the people you associate with, and therefor not worthy of the best photography can offer?

Thank you very much
These negative people are just making me step up my game even more and when the photos turn out enough the bride is happy I'll come back and let them know

Good for you! Whatever the motivation, it matters not. All that matters is that you try and further your art.

 

[KmH]

To Whitney,
Doing a wedding photo shoot is non-trivial. You’re getting the reaction that you’re getting because your degree of knowledge and preparation seems equivalent to someone having a hammer and a drill, being asked to build a house for a relative who can’t afford to hire a real architect/contractor.

If you have 9 months, then you need to acquire a few things:
1. Experience with your equipment (and perhaps some new equipment).
2. Experience shooting in the typical environment
3. Experience with light modifiers (flash, etc.).
4. Knowledge of basic composition, posing.
5. Knowledge of post-processing

Perhaps, the starting point is to look at various wedding portfolios (there are many on the web), and various wedding publications, and get a sense of the kind of images that are common, and discuss these with your customers. Your goal here is to get a sense of what they expect and to figure out the “minimum deliverables”. If all they want and expect are two shots of them at the alter, great. Chances are, they'll want more.

Once you’ve got a clearer idea of the target, you need to scout out suitable places which replicate the shooting conditions you will have and try to shoot the photos using a willing (or susceptible-to-blackmail) volunteer. Then look hard at what the results are and decide where you need to improve.

For example, you mentioned that the church in which you’ll be shooting has fluorescent lights and dark woodwork. This means that unless you know how to adjust the color balance, you’ll have all kind of weird tones. The dark woodwork will skew your camera’s lightmeter, and will most probably cause you to overexpose. This means that you will need to get a good idea of the exposure to use (you need to expose for the highlights), and then lock that in by using the manual exposure.

If there is just not enough light for you to get decent images, you have options: a flash (assuming one is allowed at the wedding), a faster lens than what you have ($$$), and/or a camera body which can handle high ISO values with minimal noise (again, $$$ or rent $$$), and/or additional lighting equipment (more $$$). Learning to use a flash is a non-trivial exercise as well, as you need to figure out which flash mode you need to use, the amount of power it has relative to your shooting distance, whether a flash modifier/diffuser is needed, etc., etc.

Although there is usually not a lot of movement during a wedding, there is a lot of variation between the lightest areas and the darkest areas. You need photographic skill to ensure that all relevant parts of the scene are recorded with enough detail. That skill is obtained by learning and lots of practice.

If you’re the only photographer at the wedding, you’ll need to be in many places at the same time. Since that is usually difficult for ordinary mortals, you’ll probably need to work out a script with your customers in terms of the shots that you will make (including your position, the angle, the degree of zoom or closeup), so that you can move smoothly through the sequence without becoming the scene yourself. Experienced photographers usually know where they need to be for each part of the ceremony, but you won’t have the benefit of that experience.

After all is done, there’s the processing of the pictures, weeding out the out-of-focus, under and over-exposed ones, ditching the ones where the composition or posing is unflattering, etc., and preparing a deliverable (prints? CD? DVD?) for your customers. Again, post-processing is non-trivial, especially with all the tools that are available.

One piece of advice that I can give you, is to try and get invited to as many weddings as you can, either as the “friend with a camera” or as a “second shooter”. Watch what the pros do and “borrow” all the good ideas you can (that’s called hands-on-learning). Then try to replicate what you saw them do (that is called “really” hands-on-learning).

Remember also Murphy’s Law. You know, “Anything and everything that can go wrong, will”. The counter to Ms. Murphy’s machinations is preparation and anticipation. Backup equipment, backup shooters, backup batteries, backup memory cards, backup hard drives on which you will store your photos, etc.

That’s why you have gotten a less-than-stellar welcome – there is a large gap (or so it seems to us from your posts) between where you are now, and where you need to be to successfully and reliably deliver on one of the most important days in the lives of your customers. It can be done, but it is, as I’ve said before “non-trivial”.

Thanks for all the information given here. I will definetly look into and study in the next 9 months. As I have stated before I attend the church were the cermony is being held so I have plenty of time to study out some of the lighting situation and we also have spotlights availble and I think those will help tremendously.

It will take more than "study". You'll need to do many test shoots to fill in all the gaps in your current understanding of the daunting technical issues you face.

Learning all you will need to know in just 9 months is going to be a huge job, and frankly few people would be able to pull it off. Hopefully, you will be one of the exceptions.

Strobed light (flash) and "spotlights" don't emit light of the same color. You said you have problems now with a single light source and a yellow cast in photos. Multiple light source types will just make the problem even worse. It's called 'mixed lighting' and pro photographers avoid it like the plague.

Another example is, what you learned in the photo class about shutter speed, aperture and ISO (ambient light photography) doesn't apply in the same ways when you use strobed light (flash).

In flash photography, shutter speed is used to control the ambient light exposure, aperture is used to control the flash exposure, and flash duration controls the stopping of motion. You control 2 different exposures with a single shutter release. Your camera's flash sync speed has to be considered (1/200 for a D3000) and you have to decide if you want the flash to sync on when the front shutter curtain opens or when the rear shutter curtain closes.

Good luck to you. :thumbup:

One last thought...You need to have the B&G sign a contract whether you are getting paid or not.

 

[CatHub]

How do you leap to the conclusion that the wedding the OP is planning to shoot will be as trailer-trash low-class as the people you associate with, and therefor not worthy of the best photography can offer?

Good one Buckster!
Here is my first small wedding. Only 11 people total! It is still classy.

Cool stuff, nice work but one question...did that fox really just show up to the wedding? Guess you had 12 guests. I can definitely say that I never had interesting wildlife at any weddings I've ever shot (unless you count the bride's father).

 

[HopeNFotos]

How do you leap to the conclusion that the wedding the OP is planning to shoot will be as trailer-trash low-class as the people you associate with, and therefor not worthy of the best photography can offer?

Good one Buckster!
Here is my first small wedding. Only 11 people total! It is still classy.

Cool stuff, nice work but one question...did that fox really just show up to the wedding? Guess you had 12 guests. I can definitely say that I never had interesting wildlife at any weddings I've ever shot (unless you count the bride's father).

I was wondering the same thing about the fox..that's pretty amazing..

 

[avz10]

My father in law is getting married again (75). I am looking around and searching the net for examples. His wife will wear apricot. There will obviously be big group photos and it will not be the typical "white" wedding.

Anyone with ideas/sites, etc to visit?

I have a Canon EOS 450D with a 18-55mm lens. I usually shoot at Av, I like ISO 100-200.

Thanks for advice or directing me to a good site!!

 

[CatHub]

I realize this is a bit late now...while I'm not new to photography, I am new to this forum and geez...things go bonkers on this forum and then die off in a day.

So I am not going to say yet again to not shoot the wedding. I think you've heard that enough times now. We've all forewarned you and you have heard it over and over and over...

I agree with many of the previous posts about really studying not only technique but another photographer's style. We all want to be original but sometimes it helps to emulate someone we really admire. We can eventually do our own thing but it's good to have something to aspire to.

In terms of technique, there were some other helpful posts on here and that's also something you just need the discipline to learn. My only other advice to offer based on both your images on your site and on my experience shooting weddings is...

In terms of your pictures...the good news it that you've had at least a little experience of posing people and having to think on your feet and having to go through the motions of instructing people on what to do. Many of your images (especially the ones outside) weren't exposed well (many looked overexposed). This is where technique can help you because it is important to be able to use manual settings to under or overexpose at your command. Don't trust that the camera knows best (the camera's own metering system). Especially in weddings where the bride usually wears white and the groom typically wears black. That metering issue alone has broken many a wannabe before they even get going.

I think you captured some nice moments in your images and you seemed to get the couple and that kid comfortable in front of the camera. I would just recommend (aside from working on the exposure and lighting) to watch your poses. A lot of them are to be honest a wee bit on the cheesy side. It reminded me of the pictures you see for someone's high school graduation.

In my mind there are two kinds of wedding photographers. Ones who are into the cutesy stuff and want cheesy pictures of the bride and groom doing ridiculous things. And then there are artists capturing the day in a creative, fun way while still maintaining the emotional aspects. A lot (and I mean a lot) of portrait/wedding photographers fall into the first category. They however have the equipment and the control of technique to at least make their images polished. So my advice is to be wary of becoming the cheesy wedding photographer. They aren't hard to recognize. They're usually the guys in cheap suits, sneaking an appetizer while checking out a bridesmaid.

So aside from everyone's advice to learn the basics of technique...develop a better more sophisticated eye. It's fairly evident from your images that your D3000 isn't a great camera for professional work but as you said yourself, you're not a pro and you don't want to be. However I've seen people with entry level cameras get some pretty great shots but they know how to use their instrument to the best of its ability. If you can't get a better system (and why would you for one wedding), figure out what works best with that camera...work on developing a better eye and a more sophisticated style. Definitely find people either here or elsewhere you trust to give you feedback to help improve your style.

Another aspect of being a good wedding photographer is really about personality. That was something no one mentioned but having good people skills really helps. Forget the pictures, if you can't get people together for shots or can't approach guests then you mine as well just drop the camera in a corner and find the punch bowl. A lot of success will be based on your people skills, your ability to think fast on your feet and improvise if necessary.

Take these words with a grain of salt. I don't want to get a million hate messages from all these crazy forum people here but we're only offering opinions after all. And hey, photographers are pretty highly opinionated and what one person calls great art another will call trash. The most important thing is making the client happy. And one more thing to remember if all else fails...a lot of "regular" people couldn't tell a good picture from a bad one. When photographers look at a photograph to critique, they may get an initial gut reaction upon rating its aesthetics. But at some point they will inevitably start to pick it apart, notice graininess, noticing something just not right...they're picky! But a lot of people (not all, don't yell at me forum-ers) really just notice if they look genuine, happy...nice smiles...brides want to look beautiful...grooms just want to get the pictures over with...Just don't over or under expose so much you ever lose details in faces. They will notice that.

Good luck!

 

[Biggs88]

To the op:

Get a better Nikon.

I am not saying the D3000 sucks, theres just so many better options!

Plus, you need backup gear. So your D3000 can be your backup.

 

[Pepperpwni]

My father in law is getting married again (75). I am looking around and searching the net for examples. His wife will wear apricot. There will obviously be big group photos and it will not be the typical "white" wedding.

Anyone with ideas/sites, etc to visit?

I have a Canon EOS 450D with a 18-55mm lens. I usually shoot at Av, I like ISO 100-200.

Thanks for advice or directing me to a good site!!

I hope you don't plan on just using the kit lens for a wedding.. it limits you greatly

 

[Restomage]

My father in law is getting married again (75). I am looking around and searching the net for examples. His wife will wear apricot. There will obviously be big group photos and it will not be the typical "white" wedding.

Anyone with ideas/sites, etc to visit?

I have a Canon EOS 450D with a 18-55mm lens. I usually shoot at Av, I like ISO 100-200.

Thanks for advice or directing me to a good site!!

I hope you don't plan on just using the kit lens for a wedding.. it limits you greatly

Yeah kit lenses suck.

 

[benhasajeep]

Wedding questions like this always brings out the best in forums. :er:

I believe quite a few people forget what the economy is currently like all over. People are not turning to amateurs on a whim. They are doing it for a reason! Yes, some are just trying to be cheap. And yet others are doing it because it is their only option. There are wedings going on all over the place with no photographer. Why? Because its one of the things that can be done without in bad economic times! I know of at least 5 people who have relied on guest pictures for their wedding albums. In each case it was a money issue. They, nor their family had the extra money for the expense! These were not trailer trash weddings, just the cost of a photographer was considered unnecessary. And yet they received some very nice pictures.

In this case I am not faulting Whitney at all. She is not advertising on Craigs List or other free classifieds. She was approached by her cousin that has seen her photographs. She is not charging anything (as far as I know). And being amateur or not, the cousin has accepted her level of work!

With this in mind maybe we should start helping her (as some has), instead of continuing to berate her for taking this responsibility! If her current skill level is acceptable to her cousin. Imagine in 9 months what they will think if Whitney improves her skills? Alot can be learned in 9 months, if Whitney just spends a couple hours a week with serious practice!