Going off-camera with my Flashes

onedayillknowbetter · May 20, 2008

I've been wanting to get into off-camera flash for a while, but not really sure where to start. I've done a lot of reading, and looked on Strobist, and the Flickr group for Strobist, but I haven't found the answers to everything yet, and I was hoping for some help. I've been doing a lot of nightlife photography, and know that a second off-camera flash will fill the shadows that I often get with only one flash, but I'm not sure how to do it, and if I can with the equipment I have now. I have a Speedlite 430ex and a Sigma EF 500 DG ST. Could I use the Sigma as a master on my camera and then the Speedlite as the hand held one, or do I need to have two Canon flashes? Can I use a wireless transmitter with my 40D? (A friend was trying to show me how to do this, but his wireless thing didn't work on my camera.) If I can't use a wireless transmitter, can I use a regular hot shoe cord?

Constructive comments and responses are greatly appreciated.
Thanks!

Tiberius47 · May 20, 2008

My advice is to start out with just one flash. Then you can use the flash and the sun as two light sources.

You don't say what kind of camera you have. The easiest way to get the flash off camera is to use a sync cord. if neither your camera or flash have sync ports then you can get hotshoe adaptors for each. have a look at the tutoprial about manual flash in my signature, that has some more information.

onedayillknowbetter · May 20, 2008

Tiberius47 said:
My advice is to start out with just one flash. Then you can use the flash and the sun as two light sources.

You don't say what kind of camera you have. The easiest way to get the flash off camera is to use a sync cord. if neither your camera or flash have sync ports then you can get hotshoe adaptors for each. have a look at the tutoprial about manual flash in my signature, that has some more information.

The sun isn't usually shining in nightclubs

Actually, it's usually pretty dark, so I think I need to use two flashes. I'm not sure you really read my post because I did say that I have a 40D (I just didn't say Canon). Either way, thanks for your response.

JimmyO · May 20, 2008

Well do you need to go wireless? If so you could just grab some Cactus V.2's in the mean time untill you get pdubbs

onedayillknowbetter · May 20, 2008

I don't know, I was hoping someone here could tell me!

JimmyO · May 20, 2008

Haha, how far away do you want the flashes to be? Would cords get in the way?

ChickenFriedRyce · May 20, 2008

You could use a cable.

Connect a flash to another and hold the off camera one relatively close to the camera and fire away? If that's how it works...

Tiberius47 · May 21, 2008

onedayillknowbetter said:
The sun isn't usually shining in nightclubs Actually, it's usually pretty dark, so I think I need to use two flashes. I'm not sure you really read my post because I did say that I have a 40D (I just didn't say Canon). Either way, thanks for your response.

Sorry, you're right. It was early in the morning and I was rushing to get ready for work.

With two Canon flashes you'll be able to do it, but you'll need to make sure that one of them can be set to "master". I think the 430EX can only be set to slave. The 580EX (both versions) can be set to master. Canon also has a wireless controller that just acts as a master, it doesn't produce any illuminating flash of it's own.

In nightclubs, i'd say some kind of wireless system is the way to go, be it the light pulses of the Canon system or a radio slave set up. Using sync cables causes obvious problems. (people tripping over them or pulling them out as they walk through them).

JimmyO · May 21, 2008

If you dont already have a 580, and you want to go wireless without having to drop all that money on just one flash, you could use something like vivitar 285's or sunpak 383's, or even older nikon speedlights, like the sb-28. Then i would look to use something like bogen super clamps to hold the flashes up on walls. Then you have several choices for slaves.

onedayillknowbetter · May 21, 2008

JimmyO said:
If you dont already have a 580, and you want to go wireless without having to drop all that money on just one flash, you could use something like vivitar 285's or sunpak 383's, or even older nikon speedlights, like the sb-28. Then i would look to use something like bogen super clamps to hold the flashes up on walls. Then you have several choices for slaves.

I've never really liked the idea of putting flashes on the walls in a club. They're usually a couple stories, so I would need like a handful of flashes, plus, the lighting changes so much the point of going wireless would be to control the lighting more. On the walls, I'm not sure that would really do the trick. I use Canon equipment, but really what I was asking in this post was, "Can I go wireless with the equipment that I have right now?" The equipment I have is a Canon 40D, a Sigma EF 500 DG ST (which I don't know if I can use as a master or not/combine with an off-camera Canon Speedlite), and a Canon Speedlite 430EX.

onedayillknowbetter · May 21, 2008

Tiberius47 said:
Sorry, you're right. It was early in the morning and I was rushing to get ready for work.

With two Canon flashes you'll be able to do it, but you'll need to make sure that one of them can be set to "master". I think the 430EX can only be set to slave. The 580EX (both versions) can be set to master. Canon also has a wireless controller that just acts as a master, it doesn't produce any illuminating flash of it's own.

In nightclubs, i'd say some kind of wireless system is the way to go, be it the light pulses of the Canon system or a radio slave set up. Using sync cables causes obvious problems. (people tripping over them or pulling them out as they walk through them).

The Sigma Flash that I bought was kind of a cheaper version of the 580EX, because I didn't really have that much cash to shell out for a flash at the time. I know that this wireless setup will work with two Canon flashes, but would it work if I used the Sigma EF 500 DG ST as the master and the Speedlite as the hand held? I will buy a 580EX if necessary, but it might just have to wait a bit until I get a wider lens.

Village Idiot · May 21, 2008

You can't fire the 430EX with the sigma and the only way to fire the 430 so that it uses TTL is with a 580 or maybe even a 550.

The 430's generally have troubles with optical slaves too.

How are you plannin on shooting? Are you going to have some one carry around your second flash for you?

onedayillknowbetter · May 21, 2008

Village Idiot said:
You can't fire the 430EX with the sigma and the only way to fire the 430 so that it uses TTL is with a 580 or maybe even a 550.

The 430's generally have troubles with optical slaves too.

How are you plannin on shooting? Are you going to have some one carry around your second flash for you?

Is it only this one Sigma flash that I can't use? Because I have seen other non-canon flashes used as the master...
I'm just curious, because my priority is a new lens, then a new flash if necessary, but I want to make this work! If the Sigma won't work, is there a cheap brand/style/make of flash that you know of that will work as the master? What's the name of the wireless things I need?

I'm planning on hanging the camera around my neck and holding the other flash in my hand, maybe making some kind of holster for it so I only have to hold it while shooting.

Village Idiot · May 21, 2008

Sigma might have a wireless TTL system, but you can only use each brand with itself. You can't use Canon's wireless TTL flashes with Nikon's, Nikon's with Sigma's, Sigma's with Canons, etc...

TTL is your best bet doing event photography as your setting will constantly change. You could always get radio triggers and then it wouldn't matter what brand you were using, but then you'd have to manually set your flashes.

Antithesis · May 21, 2008

onedayillknowbetter said:
Is it only this one Sigma flash that I can't use? Because I have seen other non-canon flashes used as the master...
I'm just curious, because my priority is a new lens, then a new flash if necessary, but I want to make this work! If the Sigma won't work, is there a cheap brand/style/make of flash that you know of that will work as the master? What's the name of the wireless things I need?

I'm planning on hanging the camera around my neck and holding the other flash in my hand, maybe making some kind of holster for it so I only have to hold it while shooting.

It sounds like your thinking of optical slaves that hook up to your slave flash. You can buy them from B&H for like 5 bucks, you just don't get TTL. The only way to keep TTL is to use the 580 as a master or the Canon wireless controller thing, but both are pretty expensive if your not wanting to spend the money.

I'd just get either the Cactus v.2's off ebay or a set of the new Alien Bee triggers when they come out. They will be similar to PW's in function, just significantly cheaper. Your flash will still have to be manual and you'll have to make your exposure adjustements in-camera, but with practice it won't be that difficult.