HELP| Night Photography Problem. Too Grainy or Too Blurry.

[lordfly]

dude.. get basic understanding first with Aperture, Shutter Speed, and ISO.. then you can start talking about equipment.

I'm terrified that people spend so much money on stuff when they don't know the basics... it's like buying a ferrari before you get your driver's license. I spent my first three months of owning my DSLR just reading books on photography. Ah, well, snowstorms will do that to you.

@Schwettylens,Lordfly

Hey, Look! I came here for advice & Help not Criticism and Mocking. I have mentioned about 20 - 30 Times in this thread that I am new Completely new to Digital and have been doing film for a while. You 2 were once New to Digital Photography am I right? Than Lay-off.

Look. I'm still new to photography too. I also don't have 5k to blow on equipment to finance a hobby, especially when I'm new to it. Would you drop 20k on painting supplies before you laid down a few months worth of pencil sketches and learning form? Would you pay a ton of money for a nice Stratocaster or whatever before you even know what chords are?

You can have the fanciest camera in the world, it doesn't mean anything if you don't know how to use it. Likewise, an expert in photography can take stunning shots with a throwaway disposable camera.

The reason your night photography is suffering is because your f-stop is way too high. Crank your aperture wide open and let the light in. Turn your ISO up.

 

[LCARSx32]

There's so much you can do with night photography:

Car trails:

Silhouettes:

Dramatic lighting:

Light painting:

and on and on. Night is a blank canvas. Fill it with whatever light you see fit.


*EDIT*

dude.. get basic understanding first with Aperture, Shutter Speed, and ISO.. then you can start talking about equipment.

I'm terrified that people spend so much money on stuff when they don't know the basics... it's like buying a ferrari before you get your driver's license. I spent my first three months of owning my DSLR just reading books on photography. Ah, well, snowstorms will do that to you.

@Schwettylens,Lordfly

Hey, Look! I came here for advice & Help not Criticism and Mocking. I have mentioned about 20 - 30 Times in this thread that I am new Completely new to Digital and have been doing film for a while. You 2 were once New to Digital Photography am I right? Than Lay-off.

Look. I'm still new to photography too. I also don't have 5k to blow on equipment to finance a hobby, especially when I'm new to it. Would you drop 20k on painting supplies before you laid down a few months worth of pencil sketches and learning form? Would you pay a ton of money for a nice Stratocaster or whatever before you even know what chords are?

You can have the fanciest camera in the world, it doesn't mean anything if you don't know how to use it. Likewise, an expert in photography can take stunning shots with a throwaway disposable camera.

The reason your night photography is suffering is because your f-stop is way too high. Crank your aperture wide open and let the light in. Turn your ISO up.

Woah. Ok. Think about it this way. Why NOT spend the money if you have it. It's a waist of money to buy an entry level camera to learn on and then spend more later if you know you're serious about it. Why not buy a Ferrari to get your license? If that's what you plan to drive. Are you going to spend 10 grand on a Taurus just to get your license, then get rid of it when you're "ready" for the Ferrari? It doesn't make sense.

 

[BMPhotography]

dude.. get basic understanding first with Aperture, Shutter Speed, and ISO.. then you can start talking about equipment.

I'm terrified that people spend so much money on stuff when they don't know the basics... it's like buying a ferrari before you get your driver's license. I spent my first three months of owning my DSLR just reading books on photography. Ah, well, snowstorms will do that to you.

@Schwettylens,Lordfly

Hey, Look! I came here for advice & Help not Criticism and Mocking. I have mentioned about 20 - 30 Times in this thread that I am new Completely new to Digital and have been doing film for a while. You 2 were once New to Digital Photography am I right? Than Lay-off.

Look. I'm still new to photography too. I also don't have 5k to blow on equipment to finance a hobby, especially when I'm new to it. Would you drop 20k on painting supplies before you laid down a few months worth of pencil sketches and learning form? Would you pay a ton of money for a nice Stratocaster or whatever before you even know what chords are?

You can have the fanciest camera in the world, it doesn't mean anything if you don't know how to use it. Likewise, an expert in photography can take stunning shots with a throwaway disposable camera.

The reason your night photography is suffering is because your f-stop is way too high. Crank your aperture wide open and let the light in. Turn your ISO up.

Yes but this isn't a hobby for me. I am taking classes and pursuing a Career in this....I don't plan on buying disposable Cameras plus most of my Classes require that I have a Mid to Professional Ranged Camera...so I had to buy one anyway. I mine as well get all the equipment I need especially if I plan on staying in this Career. I also have 6 books I am reading on Photography Basics/Intermediate/Advanced. as well as Lighting Techniques but there is only so much a book can teach you...beyond giving simple explanations since most books out there are designed for the learning impaired. I rather get advice and help from people rather than a book I cannot ask Questions to.

and No I cannot afford this right a way...which Yes it is expensive but I knew that going into this Career. I had saved up a lot.. enough so that my Monthly bill on my Camera would only be 80$ a Month. which is not bad at all.

It's like being a Construction worker...gotta buy your own tools or hardhat..might as well have the best so you do not injure yourself...I don't plan on having this as a hobby. I plan on having it as a Job.

Photos

I Love the photo's LCarsx32. Thanks! Yeah I would really like to know how to do the Car Trails...which I believe I read in my book would require a Tripod. I also like the Dramatic Lighting and Light Painting...I once tried Light painting with a Old Video Camera it worked..Sorta.:lmao:

Woah. Ok. Think about it this way. Why NOT spend the money if you have it. It's a waist of money to buy an entry level camera to learn on and then spend more later if you know you're serious about it. Why not buy a Ferrari to get your license? If that's what you plan to drive. Are you going to spend 10 grand on a Taurus just to get your license, then get rid of it when you're "ready" for the Ferrari? It doesn't make sense.

I Agree!

 

[Robin Usagani]

Look, I wasnt trying to sound like an ass. Sometimes reading a text can be interpreted differently. By reading your first post I know for sure that:
1. You have no idea about the camera metering. By using the metering you know for sure the result will be dark or not
2. You dont understand how ISO, Shutter speed, and Aperture work together

You need to learn about these 2 and you will start taking good photos doesnt matter how much light there is.

 

[lordfly]

Woah. Ok. Think about it this way. Why NOT spend the money if you have it. It's a waist of money to buy an entry level camera to learn on and then spend more later if you know you're serious about it. Why not buy a Ferrari to get your license? If that's what you plan to drive. Are you going to spend 10 grand on a Taurus just to get your license, then get rid of it when you're "ready" for the Ferrari? It doesn't make sense.

I disagree. It seems an utter waste of cash to blow on equipment and gear that you, as a new person to photography, have no idea what the stuff does. Yeah, it's great that you have the cash to spend on a top-shelf Canon. But again, you can have the best equipment in the world; if you don't know the fundamental basics of photography, it's all for naught, and you might end up frustrated in the process, giving up on all the fancy gear you just blew your wad on.

If I hadn't gotten my XTI for christmas, I'd still be using my old Canon Powershot SD700 point and shoot. Maybe I'd buy a cheap holga and learn film. I just can't conceive of spending a ton of cash on stuff you're not going to know how to use for six, 12, 18 months.

One step at a time.

 

[pgriz]

I'm thinking that you need to establish a baseline from which you can venture.

So, put your fastest lens on your camera, put it on a tripod, put your camera on Av mode, crank your lens wide open, set you ISO to the lowest value (say, 100), and shoot a test shot. Now change your ISO to the next value (200), and repeat the exact same shot. Do this until to reach your camer's highest ISO value. As you crank up the ISO, the camera will compensate by selecting a faster shutter speed. What you're doing with this test is to see at what ISO you start getting unacceptable noise. Let's say it is ISO 800. You know now that anything at ISO 800 or higher will be noisy. Of course, your camera may be a little different, so testing is a good way to find out.

Next, dial the ISO back to one stop below your threshold (ISO 400 in this example).
Wide open, what shutter speed does your camera meter choose? Say it's 1/30 sec. If you have a wide to normal lens, you can shoot at that speed and not have handshake blur. So take your camera off the tripod and try it. If the image isn't sharp, then you know that 1/30 is not fast enough with your personal camera-holding style. Crank it up one stop (to 1/60) and see if the image is sharper (it will be 1 stop darker as you're already shooting wide open). Whatever speed that ends up being (for that lens and focal length), that becomes your lowest speed that you can operated hand-held. So you have just learned the highest ISO that will give you acceptable noise, and the slowest shutter speed that you can get away with shooting handheld. Anything slower than this, you'll need a tripod, or a good flash.

So rather than listen to a bunch of people who don't know you, your camera or your situation, you're better trying these simple tests to "calibrate" your equipment and ability, and then you KNOW just how far you can push your equipment and skills. Not to say that there isn't some very good advice already given, but at the end, you need to test the equipment in a systematic way to understand what it is capable of in your hands. OK, start throwing the bricks...

 

[lordfly]

beyond giving simple explanations since most books out there are designed for the learning impaired.

Wow.

Okay, well, you might want to read up on your "basics" books a bit closer so you can understand aperture settings, ISO speeds, and shutter speeds. I know they're a bit beneath you, but who knows, maybe the "stupid" books will teach you something?

 

[LCARSx32]

Alright, alright, everyone calm down.

It's ok to spend money on something you don't know how to use. Especially if you're willing to take the time to learn it. Which the OP seems willing to do. They aren't hurting anyone by owning quality equipment. So there's no need to attack them for it.

They already acknowledged that they are new to photography, especially digital.

The best thing the OP can do is take some photos, post them here and take any critique we have. It's the best way to learn. Reading up on the exposure triangle and composition will help too, of course.

BTW: Car trails are dead simple. You do a long exposure. The longer the exposure, the more blur and the more detail will show up in the surrounding landscape. Focusing is the tough part. You'll probably have to manual focus. Experiment. Have fun. USE A TRIPOD, lol.

 

[white]

Use a tripod.

And then maybe another tripod for your tripod.

And then maybe open that aperture thing so light can get through.

But most important is the tripod. Buy three.

 

[BMPhotography]

beyond giving simple explanations since most books out there are designed for the learning impaired.

Wow.

Okay, well, you might want to read up on your "basics" books a bit closer so you can understand aperture settings, ISO speeds, and shutter speeds. I know they're a bit beneath you, but who knows, maybe the "stupid" books will teach you something?

I wasn't saying what your inferring. I was saying that most of the books on the Market for photography learning basic or non. do not go in-depth into the subjects of what it is....pretty much all the books I came across that explain ISO,Aperture,Shutter Speed are either 4 - 10 Years old or give enough explanation into the subject as a Dictionary.

Look, I wasnt trying to sound like an ass. Sometimes reading a text can be interpreted differently. By reading your first post I know for sure that:
1. You have no idea about the camera metering. By using the metering you know for sure the result will be dark or not
2. You dont understand how ISO, Shutter speed, and Aperture work together

You need to learn about these 2 and you will start taking good photos doesnt matter how much light there is.

No problem, Thanks. I know how to read the Meter, However I do agree with you about the Aperture. Like I've said in previous posts I've only switched over to Digital 3 Weeks ago and is still a Learning process for me...I am still learning on how they work together, all I was coming on here for was Advice & Help on my problem as I've tried every possible way (without a tripod) to try that...and Yes I didn't know about the Aperture. I did not even know what it was because my Camera gives such a good description on what everything is.. Canons Glossary of Terms isn't really good when it comes to on-camera explanations.

I'm thinking that you need to establish a baseline from which you can venture.

So, put your fastest lens on your camera, put it on a tripod, put your camera on Av mode, crank your lens wide open, set you ISO to the lowest value (say, 100), and shoot a test shot. Now change your ISO to the next value (200), and repeat the exact same shot. Do this until to reach your camer's highest ISO value. As you crank up the ISO, the camera will compensate by selecting a faster shutter speed. What you're doing with this test is to see at what ISO you start getting unacceptable noise. Let's say it is ISO 800. You know now that anything at ISO 800 or higher will be noisy. Of course, your camera may be a little different, so testing is a good way to find out.

Next, dial the ISO back to one stop below your threshold (ISO 400 in this example).
Wide open, what shutter speed does your camera meter choose? Say it's 1/30 sec. If you have a wide to normal lens, you can shoot at that speed and not have handshake blur. So take your camera off the tripod and try it. If the image isn't sharp, then you know that 1/30 is not fast enough with your personal camera-holding style. Crank it up one stop (to 1/60) and see if the image is sharper (it will be 1 stop darker as you're already shooting wide open). Whatever speed that ends up being (for that lens and focal length), that becomes your lowest speed that you can operated hand-held. So you have just learned the highest ISO that will give you acceptable noise, and the slowest shutter speed that you can get away with shooting handheld. Anything slower than this, you'll need a tripod, or a good flash.

So rather than listen to a bunch of people who don't know you, your camera or your situation, you're better trying these simple tests to "calibrate" your equipment and ability, and then you KNOW just how far you can push your equipment and skills. Not to say that there isn't some very good advice already given, but at the end, you need to test the equipment in a systematic way to understand what it is capable of in your hands. OK, start throwing the bricks...

Thanks Pgriz. Will try modifying the settings more when the next opportunity presents itself.

 

[BMPhotography]

Alright, alright, everyone calm down.

It's ok to spend money on something you don't know how to use. Especially if you're willing to take the time to learn it. Which the OP seems willing to do. They aren't hurting anyone by owning quality equipment. So there's no need to attack them for it.

They already acknowledged that they are new to photography, especially digital.

The best thing the OP can do is take some photos, post them here and take any critique we have. It's the best way to learn. Reading up on the exposure triangle and composition will help too, of course.

BTW: Car trails are dead simple. You do a long exposure. The longer the exposure, the more blur and the more detail will show up in the surrounding landscape. Focusing is the tough part. You'll probably have to manual focus. Experiment. Have fun. USE A TRIPOD, lol.

Yes I am doing my best to learn this isn't something I am willing to give up on. I know it will take time to learn and I appreciate everyone's help and advice especially yours LCarsx32.

I have the best place (I think) that I can do the Car Trails.. Just hopefully I don't get hit by a Car trying..

Use a tripod.

And then maybe another tripod for your tripod.

And then maybe open that aperture thing so light can get through.

But most important is the tripod. Buy three.

Can I buy 4 to make it even? LOL

 

[Bitter Jeweler]

Good luck with your career.

 

[BMPhotography]

Good luck with your career.

Thank You Bitter Jeweler, Yours as well!

 

[Robin Usagani]

You said it on your post that you cant see anything on the screen after you took the shot. If you follow the meter you would know before shot is taken whether you will be able to see the shot or not. Whether or not it will look good or not is a different story.

 

[ann]

a shutter speed/fstop is the same for film, digital it is basically the same information.

You indicate you have been using film for 4 years, then take that knowledge and apply it to your digital camera.

The relationship of the fstop/shutter speed and ISo hasn't changed. What has changed , you don't need to change film to gain a higher ISO. You need to pay attention to White balance instead of using a filter with color film to correct for temperature. Other than that the basic are going to be the same.

while viewing your friends image check the metadata to see what he has been doing, or what the auto function of his camera has chosen for him and compare it to your metadata.

And yes a tripod for long exposures is important, or putting it on a bean bag, or on the ground would help and using the mirror lock up function will all allow longer exposures at a low ISO which helps reduce the grain *noise*