Help with a bid.

[craig]

The work is photographing the "Shoot out Gang". They perform a western style shoot out on the town square during the summer. 4x5 colour transparencies. Standard fees. No problem. The problem is that one of the images will literally be on a bus. Not a small ad, but one side of a public transportation bus. They already have three of them. The technology is amazing. Looks like a huge photo moving down the street. The shot will be on the bus for five years.

So... I am thinking of adding $6,000 on to the bid. Based on $100 per month to lease my photo. I had a brief conversation with the client and they feel that my name at the bottom of the photo would be compensation enough. Turns out that the transportation board will not allow you to have your name at the bottom. Their view is that "this is not a rolling advertisement".

Has anyone dealt with this sort of deal before? I think I am being realistic, but I am not sure. I am super nervous about going in to drop off the bid and my "Get them to Sign" photos. Did I neglect to mention that this may be the biggest project I have ever bid? If they do sign I will have to get film and polaroids in here pronto. let alone find the trusty cable release and polaroid back. AHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!! Help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Mitica100]

The work is photographing the "Shoot out Gang". They perform a western style shoot out on the town square during the summer. 4x5 colour transparencies. Standard fees. No problem. The problem is that one of the images will literally be on a bus. Not a small ad, but one side of a public transportation bus. They already have three of them. The technology is amazing. Looks like a huge photo moving down the street. The shot will be on the bus for five years.

So... I am thinking of adding $6,000 on to the bid. Based on $100 per month to lease my photo. I had a brief conversation with the client and they feel that my name at the bottom of the photo would be compensation enough. Turns out that the transportation board will not allow you to have your name at the bottom. Their view is that "this is not a rolling advertisement".

Has anyone dealt with this sort of deal before? I think I am being realistic, but I am not sure. I am super nervous about going in to drop off the bid and my "Get them to Sign" photos. Did I neglect to mention that this may be the biggest project I have ever bid? If they do sign I will have to get film and polaroids in here pronto. let alone find the trusty cable release and polaroid back. AHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!! Help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Carig! You are going to be famous!!! Can't wait to come back to JH and show everyone of my colleagues "See, that pic on the bus was taken by one of my friends!" But enough of that, I don't want to jinx it!

Sorry I couldn't help with your question but here's some material to read:

http://www.equinephotographers.net/newsletter_old/newsletter_dec02.htm

I'll keep my fingers crossed for you buddy!

 

[craig]

Thanks man!!! That material is going to come in handy. I will be sure to post all the gory details.

 

[LizM]

Good luck!!! All I can say is it is to a rolling advertisement!

 

[Meysha]

after reading liz's post about 5 times.... i agree.

How is it not a rolling advertisement??? What's the photo for again?.... an advertisement.

The 6 grand you mentioned doesn't seem that[i/] unreasonable to me, but I've never sold anything, bought anything, or have any idea what I'm talking about so let's wait for someone who's not as tired as me and makes more sense and knows what they're talking about.

Congrats on the offer though! That's amazing!

 

[craig]

Thanks for the positive thoughts gang!! The photo will be commemorating the 50th anniversary of the "Shoot out Gang" they work for the Downtown Historic district something or other.

 

[LizM]

after reading liz's post about 5 times.... i agree.

It was quite awkward in phrasing was it not? (yes, that time it's deliberate!)

 

[craig]

Maybe a little awkward... Not as awkward as advertisement or what? The idea is to get people to ride the bus as opposed to going to see the shoot out gang. Either way I am going to be psyched if I get this one.

 

[craig]

At this moment in time the client will not pay 6 grand. They also have thrown in a billboard credit displaying anything I want on the inside of the bus. I told them the lowest that I could go was $4,300 based on the price of a (theoretical) billboard in our current market. I think that is as low as I can go. What would you guys do? Help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[LizM]

You can't come down too much or you will lose all chance of negotiating in the future. However, if that billboard credit runs the whole 5 years on the inside of the bus that is worth a lot also. Bored people on the bus will see/read whatever ad you choose as they ride. Maybe not as many folks as the external ad but still a nice bone they threw your way. Maybe figure it as worth $2,000 for the 5 years (1/3 the outside ad)? That's not much off your $4,300 so you may want to just stick to that price. It all depends on how bad they want the ad.

Have you offered them an installment plan? They might not have such sticker shock if you let them pay x amount every 3 months or x amount per year.

 

[Christie Photo]

I had a brief conversation with the client...

Who is your client? Are you dealing with an agency?

I've never been able to charge appropriately for this kind of work. I'm located just south of Chicago, so it's a simple task to find someone else to do the work if I'm too high. I'm not a "celebrated" photographer. I'm not in a position to make too many demands. The vast majority of studios in my area automatically release all rights when making a photo for commercial use.

Sadly, I think the most I could get for this image is somewhere in the $800 - $1500 range depending on time and materials used.

But I do retain the right to use my images for self promotion. So even if you're not allowed a credit on the busses, you should still be able to display it yourself. You might even get some "free ink" if you can get the local newspaper to do an article about how you produced the image.

Good luck with this one.

-Pete

 

[craig]

The client is a non profit. Part of my dilemma is that advertising my biz does not mean that much to me. The clients that I have keep me pretty busy. I am not sure how many people riding the bus use commercial photographers. I know it sounds a little foolish. The more I think about it the more I think I will stick to 4,300. I like the idea of an installment plan.

 

[Mitica100]

Craig, I have the perfect solution!

Say you're going for a 4 year 'contract'... You can tell them the charges will be as follows:

-each calendar year has 12 months;
-total number of months you will charge them will be 48;
-the charges will be: 1 cent for the 1st month
2 cents for the 2nd month
4 cents for the 3rd month
8 cents for the 4th month...

...and so on, charges will always double for each additional month. The trick is getting them to commit to at least a two year contract with you. You could even offer the next two years for free after they commit to a contract for the first two years.

Based on this progression you should have been paid $40.95 after the first year and $167,772.15 at the end of the second year!!! It's the 'geometric' progression that will make you rich. That is, if they keep their side of the contract.

:mrgreen:

 

[Mitica100]

As a numerical (mathematical) explanation, here's how I got the above numbers:

Year one:
1 - 0.01
2 - 0.02
3 - 0.04
4 - 0.08
5 - 0.16
6 - 0.32
7 - 0.64
8 - 1.28
9 - 2.56
10 - 5.12
11 - 10.24
12 - 20.48
=========
Total = 40.95

Year two:

1 - 40.96
2 - 81.92
3 - 163.84
4 - 327.68
5 - 655.36
6 - 1,310.72
7 - 2,621.44
8 - 5,242.88
9 - 10,485.76
10 - 20,971.52
11 - 41,943.04
12 - 83,886.08
=============
Total = 167,772.15

Any questions?? :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

 

[eydryan]

mitica, esti nebun!

that being said, i believe that no person except those taken from a comic book would ever agree to such a thing before making their own calculus. funny idea though!