High Key

Thayli · Feb 14, 2013

So after my last rather comedic venture into high key, I decided to try again a little more seriously. I'm still a touch confused about one issue however, which is the black. I read up a little about it, and while most people think its okay to have some black in the shot, there are some who think there shouldn't be any. One guys article I read said that brown and black haired models cant actually do true high-key due to their hair. So I still don't know. :er:

Anyway, I really hate to mutter the infamous "Excuse me, is this high key?" So I'm going to finish by saying, please have a look at my very bright photos.

pic_chick · Feb 14, 2013

I like them looks dreamy makes me think on lazy sunny afternoons when your almost a sleep but not and the world just seems better. as to rather they are or are not high key .. I don't know to knew to say really so I will leave that for other to comment on. great shots ether way.

ralphh · Feb 15, 2013

A high key photo shouldn't have dark shadows, but black hair is allowed to be black - if something is black that's got nothing to do with shadows.

I think that you've pushed the exposure up a little higher than you needed to for the standard high-key look you were probably going for, but they're still quite pleasing in a dreamy kind of way.

Here's a high-key attempt of mine with a dark haired model.

There are no blown out white areas - the the highlights on her skin are still (very light) grey, not white. Her hair is still (near to) black so you have a full tonal range, but there's no deep shadows...

Feel very free to tell me it sucks and you hate it :lmao: but this is more what I think of when I think about high-key with a dark-haired model....

cgipson1 · Feb 15, 2013

Looks to me like you lowered contrast way too much... and have too much "splash" from the background.

All I did was add contrast....she still doesn't have what I would call high key lighting on her face. All lowering contrast that much does, is make it hazy and underexposed looking.

tirediron · Feb 15, 2013

I agree that these aren't quite high-key. I suspect that the way you're laying out your lighting may be a big part of the problem. How did you light this image?

Designer · Feb 15, 2013

Thayli; I think the only thing that is in high key is the background. I think you got some misleading comments on your first attempt.

Thayli · Feb 15, 2013

Swing and a miss as they say.

Picchick thanks very much, glad you liked them high-key or not. Ralph I think you're right on the exposure, and yes that shot you posted does look much better. Much clearer and defined.

Cgipson, thanks for taking the time to do that, I'm now wondering however, the original RAW looked quite similair to the re-edit you have done, so if that was your original (the one you have put up), what you do to it at that point?

Tirediron, excuse the god-awful drawing, but this is the layout I used. A crayon diagram would have been better.

The two back strobes were just touching her back and a tiny bit of her sides, I was trying to blow out the edges as it were. So yes, a fair bit of splash. What should I have done? Oh yeah, and there is a fan right in front of her as well.

And Designer, yeah I'm getting good at high key backgrounds lol.

Anyway, thanks as always for the comments guys, its appreciated and very helpful. Im going to have a quick look for that RAW now, it might be easier for u to tell me what I'm doing wrong if you can actually wipe away my horrific photoshop skills.

EDIT:Okay, here is the RAW file converted to jpg with absolutly nothing done to it. (My wife would have a fit if she found out I put this up, warts and all). I gave her what I hoped was a normal full exposure, because I figured the high key bit I would do in lightroom, and I would rather have the detail and lose it in editing than try (try? I do it constantly without trying) to blow out evenly while shooting, and then not have the detail I want later. Is this an ass about face way of doing it?

cgipson1 · Feb 15, 2013

you are trying to use Low Wattage Constant Lighting to do High Key Lighting? It (110W) won't have enough output to even out what you are doing to the background (360 watt), and give a high key exposure on the subject. Or do you have Monolights in that watt range?

On the edit... I just added contrast

(hmmm.. gotta be flash at those settings!)

[PhotoME]
PhotoME version: 0.79R17 (Build 856)

[Overview]
URL: http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/...aphy/36111d1360905470-high-key-img_6713up.jpg
File type: JPEG
File size: 194.9 KB
Creation date: 2/12/2013 22:49
Last modification: 2/15/2013 12:42
Make: Canon (http://www.canon.com)
Camera: Canon EOS DIGITAL REBEL XTi
Software: Adobe Photoshop CS6 (Windows)
Dimension: 805 x 1205 px (1 MP, 2:3)
Focal length: 50 mm (equiv. 81 mm)
Aperture: F5
Exposure time: 1/200"
ISO speed rating: 100/21°
Program: Manual
Metering Mode: Partial
White Balance: Manual
Flash: Flash did not fire, compulsory flash mode

cgipson1 · Feb 15, 2013

And here.... Diagram Creator: http://www.lightingdiagrams.com/Creator

tirediron · Feb 15, 2013

For future reference: Pretty lighting diagrams.

Okay, I see issues which are going to make a true high-key look difficult. One, you appear to be using continuous lighting, which really doesn't have sufficient power to photograph a person (unless you're using the serious, movie-grade lighting). The second is that you are using a reflector in place of the second subject light. Using a reflector means that it's going to be impossible to wash the subject with equal light, since a reflector is going to be at least a 2/3 to 2 stop loss (depending on distance, quality, etc).

(That diagram generator won't work on this computer, so bear with me) Use the flat of the wall rather than the corner for a background and light it with only one light. Take your two 180s and rig up diffusers for them if you don't already have SBs or brollys and set those (just guessing now) about 3' back and 45 degrees off of lens axis in front of the subject to that she's getting equal, shadowless light. Use the last light for the background and clean that up in post. Set your exposure to give a clean, bright look and shoot away.

cgipson1 · Feb 15, 2013

Thayli said:
The two back strobes were just touching

AHA.. I missed that... so you were using strobes.

Thayli said:
EDIT:Okay, here is the RAW file converted to jpg with absolutly nothing done to it. (My wife would have a fit if she found out I put this up, warts and all). I gave her what I hoped was a normal full exposure, because I figured the high key bit I would do in lightroom, and I would rather have the detail and lose it in editing than try (try? I do it constantly without trying) to blow out evenly while shooting, and then not have the detail I want later. Is this an ass about face way of doing it?

She is underexposed... and you don't have to fry that background so hard either..... I would put one 180 on the background... move a 180 (modified) to act as key and use the 110 as fill.. you need about 2 Stops over on the background and a quarter to a half stop over on her Bright side, less on fill side

Thayli · Feb 15, 2013

cgipson1 said:
And here.... Diagram Creator: http://www.lightingdiagrams.com/Creator

Bwahahah. That would have saved a ton of humiliation for my art skills lol.

Yes they are strobes, yes they are the cheapest and nastiest that money can buy. But I'm using an Xti so I'm not splashing out on Alienbees until I maybe get a new camera. The 110 is a cowboystudio (what a name). Its slow, (about 3 seconds recharge) but I find it consistent in its flash. The 180's I actually got the same day I took these, maybe 3-4 days ago. They are even cheaper than the cowboys, theyre Louisiana Studio, and I got the 2, a softbox, and 2 shoot-throughs, plus 7ft stands for $110, which i thought was a bargain. The build is awful, so I dont know how long they will last, but the recharge is about 0.5 seconds and I really like them. On about 1/4 power they will go as fast as my shutter can. Again, dunno how long they will last though.

Anyway, just as a footnote, after I did these I started playing around. (I always try to do one educational thing, then I get bored and scream "Freestyle" and start dancing). While waving a home depot fan about in one hand and camera in the other I got quite into it. I then got almost 100 pictures like these. Theyre probably that type of pic that only the person who took them likes, but I was very happy with my new lights.

cgipson1 · Feb 15, 2013

Actually those aren't bad... especially "bedhead"

I like it! She is lovely... and you gave that a "fashion" kind of feel......

Thayli · Feb 15, 2013

tirediron said:
Okay, I see issues... ...and shoot away.

Thanks for that Tirediron, much appreciated. So I should have a fill thats equal to the key? I actually had a 2nd 110 sitting behind me that I didnt use because whenever I try equal lighting on either side the pics are just... flat? I cant really say more than that, just no life in them. But I've never done it with high key in mind though. Softboxes and umbrellas i have, (at least in a fashion, I have two proper softboxes, 4 shoot throughs and a silver umbrella, but I have alot of *cough* homemade bits and pieces). As for using the corner and not the flat wall, I thought that was my masterful stroke of genius, as I'd be able to concentrate the light more effeciantly. Glad to see im thinking in completly the opposite direction lol.
I was using 2 white single bedsheets as a background and they were wrinkly as hell, so i had to blast them to get the wrinkles out. I left them in once before and had a nightmare trying to get them out in PS later. And i think thats it.

I'll have a shot at your tips in the next week and hopefully have some results to show you all. If I could be a real pain however, if you get 5 mins in the next couple of days could you throw up a diagram? No worries if not however.